Non licensee shipping a rifle

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Non licensee shipping a rifle

Posted: 3/19/2018 5:01:40 PM EDT

My aunt died in her sleep last week at 56. She was my mom's baby sister and not much older than I am right now, which has really made me think......

She was my favorite aunt because she loved hunting and shooting. The last time she came for a visit, we spent an afternoon together burning up ammo and making memories. We had planned a bear hunt together, but the birth of my daughter messed up our plans.

Anyway, my cousin told me this morning that she wanted me to have her .30-30 Winchester Model 1894. When she was a teenager, my Dad bought it for her and its always been her prized possession. I was there when he bought it and I remember how much joy it brought her.

Since she lived across the country, and i'm not able to make it to the funeral, i've spent some time today thinking about what I need to do to have him ship the rifle to me. Can y'all look this over and tell me if i'm on the right track.

1) I've talked to a friend of mine who is an FFL and he is willing to do the transfer for me. I'll have my cousin send it to him. My friend gave me a copy of his FFL to give to my cousin just in case there are any problems.

2) I'm going to buy a shipping box and send to my cousin.

3) I'm going to ask my cousin to put a copy of his driver's license in the box (my friend with the FFL asked for that), take the boxed up rifle to the Post Office and ship the rifle to my FFL friend via Registered Mail. This rifle is priceless to me and I don't want anyone losing it. Since Registered Mail requires a signature at every step, supposedly its the way to go. I'll reimburse my cousin for the cost of shipping and his time.

4) The rifle arrives at the post office. My friend with the FFL picks it up and he transfers it to me.

5) I go home with a priceless rifle.

What do y'all think?

Posted: 3/19/2018 5:14:14 PM EDT

[#1]

Top notch plan.

It actually can be as simple as that.

Registered mail is slow. Because it ships in a locked container and signed for at every stop. But out is the most secure shipping because it ships in a locked container and is signed for at every stop.

Posted: 3/19/2018 6:13:06 PM EDT

[#2]

Federal law (GCA '68) makes an exception for inherited firearms. There is no requirement to go through an FFL for inherited firearms.

18 U.S. Code § 922 - Unlawful acts:

(a) It shall be unlawful -

(5) for any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) to transfer, sell, trade, give, transport, or deliver any firearm to any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the transferor resides; except that this paragraph shall not apply to (A) the transfer, transportation, or delivery of a firearm made to carry out a bequest of a firearm to, or an acquisition by intestate succession of a firearm by, a person who is permitted to acquire or possess a firearm under the laws of the State of his residence, ...

That's 18 U.S. Code § 922(a)(5)(A).

Now check if there are prohibitions in Alabama and wherever the rifle is coming from. If none, then no FFL is needed and you can legally pick it up or have it shipped straight to your house.

Posted: 3/19/2018 7:16:14 PM EDT

[#3]

Quote History

Quoted:
Federal law (GCA '68) makes an exception for inherited firearms. There is no requirement to go through an FFL for inherited firearms.

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Based on what OP wrote, he did not inherit it.

OP

Registered mail is not flawless. USPS lost a registered mail package sent to me a month back. Still not found, last signed for location was local PO. However your plan is solid, make sure you have it insured too.

Posted: 3/19/2018 10:07:53 PM EDT

[#4]

Quote History

Quoted:
Based on what OP wrote, he did not inherit it.

OP

Registered mail is not flawless. USPS lost a registered mail package sent to me a month back. Still not found, last signed for location was local PO. However your plan is solid, make sure you have it insured too.

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Quoted:

Quoted:
Federal law (GCA '68) makes an exception for inherited firearms. There is no requirement to go through an FFL for inherited firearms.

Based on what OP wrote, he did not inherit it.

OP

Registered mail is not flawless. USPS lost a registered mail package sent to me a month back. Still not found, last signed for location was local PO. However your plan is solid, make sure you have it insured too.

Perhaps I mis-interpreted "...my cousin told me this morning that she wanted me to have her .30-30 Winchester Model 1894." Whether by written or verbal bequest, the GCA mentions "...acquisition by intestate succession...". Intestate means a written will does not exist. So I think OP inherited the rifle by intestate succession.

Of course, take the FFL route if in doubt.

Posted: 3/19/2018 10:52:54 PM EDT

[#5]

Quote History

Quoted:

Perhaps I mis-interpreted "...my cousin told me this morning that she wanted me to have her .30-30 Winchester Model 1894." Whether by written or verbal bequest, the GCA mentions "...acquisition by intestate succession...". Intestate means a written will does not exist. So I think OP inherited the rifle by intestate succession.

Of course, take the FFL route if in doubt.

View Quote

OP did not provide a lot of info maybe she had a will maybe not. I read it as son inherited his moms estate, and it was son giving the gun to OP based on what he believed was what his mom wanted.

Either way, as you point out, FFL is the best route since he is not going to go and pick it up. And this highlights the importance of a will.

Posted: 3/19/2018 11:42:08 PM EDT

[#6]

Quote History

Quoted:
Federal law (GCA '68) makes an exception for inherited firearms. There is no requirement to go through an FFL for inherited firearms.

18 U.S. Code § 922 - Unlawful acts:

(a) It shall be unlawful -

(5) for any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) to transfer, sell, trade, give, transport, or deliver any firearm to any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the transferor resides; except that this paragraph shall not apply to (A) the transfer, transportation, or delivery of a firearm made to carry out a bequest of a firearm to, or an acquisition by intestate succession of a firearm by, a person who is permitted to acquire or possess a firearm under the laws of the State of his residence, ...

That's 18 U.S. Code § 922(a)(5)(A).

Now check if there are prohibitions in Alabama and wherever the rifle is coming from. If none, then no FFL is needed and you can legally pick it up or have it shipped straight to your house.

View Quote

Careful.
While bequests of firearms allow the beneficiary to take immediate possession of a firearm.........Federal law sure as heck doesn't allow the interstate shipment from one nonlicensee to another nonlicensee.

This means the beneficiary could travel to the state where the firearm is located and take direct possession. It does not mean someone in the decedents state can ship it to the beneficiary directly.

Posted: 3/20/2018 11:32:13 AM EDT

[#7]

Quote History

Quoted:

Careful.
While bequests of firearms allow the beneficiary to take immediate possession of a firearm.........Federal law sure as heck doesn't allow the interstate shipment from one nonlicensee to another nonlicensee.

This means the beneficiary could travel to the state where the firearm is located and take direct possession. It does not mean someone in the decedents state can ship it to the beneficiary directly.

View Quote

I certainly understand not playing with fire. But what about this part: (A) the transfer, transportation, or delivery of a firearm made to carry out a bequest of a firearm..."

If a person can cross State lines to take possession, it can/should work in the other direction since there is effectively no difference and the above language covers it.

Posted: 3/20/2018 11:40:23 AM EDT

[#8]

Thanks everyone. Obviously, the best way is to go to the funeral and get the 1894 from my cousin. But, its just too far to drive and I can't afford to fly.

As far as I know, my aunt didn't have a will. But, she did make sure to tell her kids what she wanted done with the little she had left. She specifically told my two cousins that she wanted me to have that rifle.

I'm surprised at the loss of a registered mail package, since its supposedly signed for at each location. I'd hate to lose this rifle!

Is there a "best" carrier through which to ship a firearm?

Posted: 3/20/2018 12:28:02 PM EDT

[#9]

Quote History

Quoted:
I certainly understand not playing with fire. But what about this part: (A) the transfer, transportation, or delivery of a firearm made to carry out a bequest of a firearm..." If a person can cross State lines to take possession, it can/should work in the other direction since there is effectively no difference and the above language covers it.

View Quote View All Quotes

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Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:

Careful.
While bequests of firearms allow the beneficiary to take immediate possession of a firearm.........Federal law sure as heck doesn't allow the interstate shipment from one nonlicensee to another nonlicensee.

This means the beneficiary could travel to the state where the firearm is located and take direct possession. It does not mean someone in the decedents state can ship it to the beneficiary directly.

I certainly understand not playing with fire. But what about this part: (A) the transfer, transportation, or delivery of a firearm made to carry out a bequest of a firearm..." If a person can cross State lines to take possession, it can/should work in the other direction since there is effectively no difference and the above language covers it.

It means the executor can hand (ie transfer or deliver) the gun directly to the beneficiary and the beneficiary can accept delivery and subsequently transport it himself across state lines.

Posted: 3/20/2018 12:57:25 PM EDT

[#10]

Quote History

Quoted:
Is there a "best" carrier through which to ship a firearm?

View Quote

<----FFL who ships and receives through all three.
No. USPS/UPS/FedEx are equally competent/incompetent. Pretty much any USPS Priority Mail package going across the country will fly on a UPS or FedEx contract at some point.

But there ARE things you can do to increase the odds your package will arrive:
Ship with Adult Signature Required, Insured for full value.
With a high value item, use a foam lined plastic case inside a cardboard box. If you can shake the box and feel movement inside you didn't pack it good enough.
You can never use too much bubble wrap inside the box or too much tape on the outside of the box.
Assume your shipment will be handled roughly, thrown, dropped and stepped on. Don't for a second believe that writing FRAGILE on the side of the box means they will take extra care.

Don't use the slowest, cheapest level of service like USPS Retail Ground, UPS Ground, FedEx Ground or FedEx Home. The longer the package is in their system the more opportunity for loss, damage, theft, etc.
Use USPS Priority Mail, FedEx Express Saver or UPS 3Day Select.

Posted: 3/20/2018 5:21:55 PM EDT

[#11]

Quote History

Quoted:
It means the executor can hand (ie transfer or deliver) the gun directly to the beneficiary and the beneficiary can accept delivery and subsequently transport it himself across state lines.

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:

Careful.
While bequests of firearms allow the beneficiary to take immediate possession of a firearm.........Federal law sure as heck doesn't allow the interstate shipment from one nonlicensee to another nonlicensee.

This means the beneficiary could travel to the state where the firearm is located and take direct possession. It does not mean someone in the decedents state can ship it to the beneficiary directly.

I certainly understand not playing with fire. But what about this part: (A) the transfer, transportation, or delivery of a firearm made to carry out a bequest of a firearm..." If a person can cross State lines to take possession, it can/should work in the other direction since there is effectively no difference and the above language covers it.

It means the executor can hand (ie transfer or deliver) the gun directly to the beneficiary and the beneficiary can accept delivery and subsequently transport it himself across state lines.

Forgive me for pressing this just a little further. I'd like to understand. Does the below CFR cover it?

§ 478.29 Out-of-State acquisition of firearms by nonlicensees.
No person, other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector, shall transport into or receive in the State where the person resides (or if a corporation or other business entity, where it maintains a place of business) any firearm purchased or otherwise obtained by such person outside that State: Provided, That the provisions of this section:

(a) Shall not preclude any person who lawfully acquires a firearm by bequest or intestate succession in a State other than his State of residence from transporting the firearm into or receiving it in that State, if it is lawful for such person to purchase or possess such firearm in that State,...

If a person can receive it in their State of residence, how does it get there? If through an FFL, the clause is meaningless.

Posted: 3/20/2018 5:56:42 PM EDT

[#12]

Quote History

Quoted:

Forgive me for pressing this just a little further. I'd like to understand. Does the below CFR cover it?

§ 478.29 Out-of-State acquisition of firearms by nonlicensees.
No person, other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector, shall transport into or receive in the State where the person resides (or if a corporation or other business entity, where it maintains a place of business) any firearm purchased or otherwise obtained by such person outside that State: Provided, That the provisions of this section:

(a) Shall not preclude any person who lawfully acquires a firearm by bequest or intestate succession in a State other than his State of residence from transporting the firearm into or receiving it in that State, if it is lawful for such person to purchase or possess such firearm in that State,...

If a person can receive it in their State of residence, how does it get there? If through an FFL, the clause is meaningless.

View Quote View All Quotes

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Quote History

Quoted:

Forgive me for pressing this just a little further. I'd like to understand. Does the below CFR cover it?

§ 478.29 Out-of-State acquisition of firearms by nonlicensees.
No person, other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector, shall transport into or receive in the State where the person resides (or if a corporation or other business entity, where it maintains a place of business) any firearm purchased or otherwise obtained by such person outside that State: Provided, That the provisions of this section:

(a) Shall not preclude any person who lawfully acquires a firearm by bequest or intestate succession in a State other than his State of residence from transporting the firearm into or receiving it in that State, if it is lawful for such person to purchase or possess such firearm in that State,...

If a person can receive it in their State of residence, how does it get there? If through an FFL, the clause is meaningless.

The executor can deliver it to the beneficiary's state of residence.
It does not change the Federal law on shipping a firearm interstate.
CFR 478.31

§478.31 Delivery by common or contract carrier.

(a) No person shall knowingly deliver or cause to be delivered to any common or contract carrier for transportation or shipment in interstate or foreign commerce to any person other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector, any package or other container in which there is any firearm or ammunition without written notice to the carrier that such firearm or ammunition is being transported or shipped: Provided, That any passenger who owns or legally possesses a firearm or ammunition being transported aboard any common or contract carrier for movement with the passenger in interstate or foreign commerce may deliver said firearm or ammunition into the custody of the pilot, captain, conductor or operator of such common or contract carrier for the duration of that trip without violating any provision of this part.

(b) No common or contract carrier shall require or cause any label, tag, or other written notice to be placed on the outside of any package, luggage, or other container indicating that such package, luggage, or other container contains a firearm.

(c) No common or contract carrier shall transport or deliver in interstate or foreign commerce any firearm or ammunition with knowledge or reasonable cause to believe that the shipment, transportation, or receipt thereof would be in violation of any provision of this part: Provided, however, That the provisions of this paragraph shall not apply in respect to the transportation of firearms or ammunition in in-bond shipment under Customs laws and regulations.

(d) No common or contract carrier shall knowingly deliver in interstate or foreign commerce any firearm without obtaining written acknowledgement of receipt from the recipient of the package or other container in which there is a firearm: Provided, That this paragraph shall not apply with respect to the return of a firearm to a passenger who places firearms in the carrier's custody for the duration of the trip.

[33 FR 18555, Dec. 14, 1968. Redesignated at 40 FR 16385, Apr. 15, 1975, and amended by T.D. ATF-354, 59 FR 7112, Feb. 14, 1994; T.D. ATF-361, 60 FR 10786, Feb. 27, 1995]

Posted: 3/22/2018 4:54:21 PM EDT

[#13]

Tom is right.

This is legal: OP can travel across state lines to wherever the deceased lived, pick up the gun from the executor, and bring it home legally.

This is legal: The executor can pick up the gun, travel across state lines to where the OP lives, and hand it over legally.

This is not legal: The executor ships the gun across state lines directly to the OP. If it were legal the exemption would be spelled out under (a)(2).

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Non licensee shipping a rifle

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