Victor, is there any advantage the Raptor has over regular set up for long distance....lets say..pvs14 or mini14 with Nightforce 2.5-10X24(night vision compatible). I know the Raptor has larger objective lens to collect more photons in low light condition, but other than that, is there anything else? BTW, very nice and creative with that bike helmet

Originally Posted By tth110: Victor, is there any advantage the Raptor has over regular set up for long distance....lets say..pvs14 or mini14 with Nightforce 2.5-10X24(night vision compatible). I know the Raptor has larger objective lens to collect more photons in low light condition, but other than that, is there anything else? BTW, very nice and creative with that bike helmet

MUCH difference between using a dedicated NVD rifle scope such as a Raptor vs. a PVS look-thru using a daytime optic scope.  (I think you are talking about piggy-backing a PVS behind a day optic?) The light loss is horrendous using a daytime scope in front of a PVS-14. Not only light loss due to the daytime optics, but also resoulution for long ranges.  Most folk who look throuh a Raptor or D-760 for the first time can't believe how far you can see in the dark!  You are also correct that the MAJOR contibutor is the objective lens itself.  

Vic

Thanks
 FREE

Originally Posted By Victor: Originally Posted By FREEFALLE6: Looks good I hate the skull crusher also. I am curios what is the black globe on top of the helmet?IR strobe??? I notice you have a Phoenix beacon on the back of you helmet, but I have no clue what the globe was. Thanks  FREE You're correct, it's an IR beacon. The Pheoinix is the programable version you see on the back.

very nice! taggage for me...................!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

just curious, doesn't perm marking the bell straps gonna leave marks, especially when you sweat?? got a similar setup, but with a protec helmet.
night vision is the sheeuut! i live in the city, but when i go out to the desert!!! wow.  a person can really fully appreciate nvg's.

Okay some photo porn then I will get around to a rundown of the stuff.
I started this earlier but lost a bunch of text so here goes again.

Maxi-Kite


Kite and Maxi Kite


Some Zeroing rnages for PAC's and PEQ's




The Insight bbl clamp thru handguard PAC/PEQ mount - necessary with the TRIAD and Diemaco M203 sight combo


TRIAD - size


View thru PVS-14 and Aimpoint M2


PVS-14 and EOTECH 552


Lights and NV IFF setups (I tired to take a pic of some glint tape - but the flash really plays havoc)






and Capt[then WO] (ret.)  Moses article on Suppression in Night Operations
nightoperations.com/Weapons_Suppression.htm

More to follow

Kevin

Was that EOTech photo with the PVS on your helmet or with the PVS mounted on the upper in line with the EO?

I would assume the latter, for photographic purposes, but from what I've read, the PVS excels with an EO when kept head mounted?   Thoughts?

BTW great pix.

Thanks for the info as always Kev!

I see you are using a new IR/Visible Beacon.  (the one next to your Canadian Flag) I just got several in I'm trying out. I like the versatility of the different settings with the twist of the dial, visible, IR, all programmable as well TO "SEE WHO'S IN THE ZOO" (as you say!!)  The other fairly new TAG/IR is being tried out amoung several LE agencies as well.  I love the group syncronization features. Capt. Moses (RET.) talks about these units as well.

Edited to ADD: Kev, (again) tell Capt. Moses AWESOME Web Site.  When he gets a moment, would love to see him post from time to time in our Night Vision area. He's a wealth of knowledge with an incredible tradecraft.  I always try to surround myself with folk like this! Just too much darn knowledge to pass up!

The NV was weapon mounted for the photo's - this was done for ease of photography nothing more - I think the PVS-14 and 18 are not ideal setups for weapon mounting.

The VIP-IR is a good design a lot more rugged that the TAG-IR or the Phoenix Jr's - plus the vis setting is nice for some uses - but with the dust and dirt the dial does become more awkward to rotate.
That said - it is minor to the fact the TAG's some where issued had to be activated by dissassembly - same to turn off - they where originally designed as a tripwire system - the new ones are extrenally activated - the Phoenix JR's lose batteries too easily that I consider them a survival backup not a first line setup.

Capt Moses retired and moved to Germany with his wife (she is German) I am told, not sure if he is having any dealings with kit or green stuff at all he left a little bitter I gather.  John is still running Night Opaerations I have occassional contact with him - do you have his email?


The Kite and Maxi kit specs are on Johns webpage.

I only got to use the PVS-17 once so I dont feel qualified to give an opionion other than its better than the Kites.

Originally Posted By KevinB: The NV was weapon mounted for the photo's - this was done for ease of photography nothing more - I think the PVS-14 and 18 are not ideal setups for weapon mounting. The VIP-IR is a good design a lot more rugged that the TAG-IR or the Phoenix Jr's - plus the vis setting is nice for some uses - but with the dust and dirt the dial does become more awkward to rotate. That said - it is minor to the fact the TAG's some where issued had to be activated by dissassembly - same to turn off - they where originally designed as a tripwire system - the new ones are extrenally activated - the Phoenix JR's lose batteries too easily that I consider them a survival backup not a first line setup. Capt Moses retired and moved to Germany with his wife (she is German) I am told, not sure if he is having any dealings with kit or green stuff at all he left a little bitter I gather.  John is still running Night Opaerations I have occassional contact with him - do you have his email? The Kite and Maxi kit specs are on Johns webpage. I only got to use the PVS-17 once so I dont feel qualified to give an opionion other than its better than the Kites.

Great feedback on the VIP's Kev. Your right...For your environment I completely forgot about what dirt, (more less sand) could do to that dial mechanism. Also good obbservation on the Pheonix...They are only as good as the Duracell holding onto it!

I do not have John's email, (I got he and Capt. Moses mixed) if you get a moment, do a mail drop, would love to pick his brain on a few pieces of gear. Thanks!

Vic

As soon as I get home tonight - I will flip you his email.

PAC-4C on RAS - this was my personal unit, until  sold it since we are using PEQ/7500's at work and I wanted a equally capable take home.


PVS-14 behind the C79 ELCAN - poor mans PVS-17 - with the extra rail slot onthe Diemaco uppers it makes it possible.



PAC-4C and Insight 7500


I realy liked the 7500 - the vis laser was a very convenient tool all the perks of the PEQ2A and the vis laser too.  I cant wait for Insights new one.

We had a few PAS13's with us but i never thought to get pics thru the viewer - as well a buddy had a Insight Tech Thermal that was a LOT smaller and seemed to have better resolution.

Obviously I'm stuck with issue kit (maybe stuck is a bad word) so I can really give a good comparision to what else is out there other than items we got to trial.

In reality I dont think the majority of people/troops need the PEQ - the PAC is a cheaper version and it is nice that commanders can burn thru on high power to give clear indications, if the users are familiar with a few common commands it can make the lack of a diferentiating beam mangeable - and of course the PEQ's have pattern gens so one can be identifiable enough.

IR lights in CQB - without the PEQ you require some sort of IR light source the IR filters on the SF lights are okay - but the little M1 dedicated IR setup is really the cats ass for that stuff and even with the PEQ it is a nice to have item.  However I still think that after a few rounds go each way white light is a much superior method of CQB.  

PVS-14/18 - the 18 is a better unit as far as monoculars go - lighter and a nicer head setup - but the dual tube setups are more more effective for driving and shooting - despite what a few NV manufacturers try to sell you on.  I got to play briefly with a 21 and I was like WOW - Insight and others have REALLY good dual tube setups that if I could woudl be fielding.

Its hard to review the pro's and cons of the above setups in a comsumer orientated fashion simply cause I am not sure what people are interested in.

But I can take some cool pics

Originally Posted By KevinB: As soon as I get home tonight - I will flip you his email. PAC-4C on RAS - this was my personal unit, until  sold it since we are using PEQ/7500's at work and I wanted a equally capable take home. img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/EvilKev/gun4.jpg PVS-14 behind the C79 ELCAN - poor mans PVS-17 - with the extra rail slot onthe Diemaco uppers it makes it possible. img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/EvilKev/Jas2.jpg PAC-4C and Insight 7500 img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/EvilKev/Weapons/kevssfw.jpg img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/EvilKev/Weapons/C8toSFW.jpg I realy liked the 7500 - the vis laser was a very convenient tool all the perks of the PEQ2A and the vis laser too.  I cant wait for Insights new one. We had a few PAS13's with us but i never thought to get pics thru the viewer - as well a buddy had a Insight Tech Thermal that was a LOT smaller and seemed to have better resolution. Obviously I'm stuck with issue kit (maybe stuck is a bad word) so I can really give a good comparision to what else is out there other than items we got to trial. In reality I dont think the majority of people/troops need the PEQ - the PAC is a cheaper version and it is nice that commanders can burn thru on high power to give clear indications, if the users are familiar with a few common commands it can make the lack of a diferentiating beam mangeable - and of course the PEQ's have pattern gens so one can be identifiable enough. IR lights in CQB - without the PEQ you require some sort of IR light source the IR filters on the SF lights are okay - but the little M1 dedicated IR setup is really the cats ass for that stuff and even with the PEQ it is a nice to have item.  However I still think that after a few rounds go each way white light is a much superior method of CQB.   PVS-14/18 - the 18 is a better unit as far as monoculars go - lighter and a nicer head setup - but the dual tube setups are more more effective for driving and shooting - despite what a few NV manufacturers try to sell you on.  I got to play briefly with a 21 and I was like WOW - Insight and others have REALLY good dual tube setups that if I could woudl be fielding. Its hard to review the pro's and cons of the above setups in a comsumer orientated fashion simply cause I am not sure what people are interested in. But I can take some cool pics

Kev,

I remember your top platform...I see gj's original NSN mount!!  I think still have a few of them laying around!

Speaking of IR lights Kev, you need to try out the one I have tested and now selling to a few folk.  I've sold about 40 units and they are REAL torch out to 200-300M  Drop me an email and I'll send you one for you and a few of the 'boys" to try out.  The M1 is a very clean 50-75M light, but fter that, as you know it peters out pretty quick.  This IR is a great intermidiate light!!

Kevin: With your sight mounted far forward on the handguard, have you found it to be an advantage with regard to reticle size becoming larger with distance? I notice this on my Reflex sights, but I don't have the ability to go that far on the weapon yet.

I'm using PVS7D's with this setup and find it works well on an AR15, but both reticles are a little bright for the goggles I am using. Maybe getting a little further out will diffuse the sight a little... I don't know if it's a function of the reticle being too bright, but of the two reticles I have (Chevron and triangle-both 12.5moa) the triangle is a tiny bit fuzzy at the aiming tip. Getting it out a little further would be nice, but it's not a hindrance at 100yds.

I'm currently in the market for an IR laser, and am wondering if it's easy to bore-sight the laser to your electronic sight? In my area it's relatively difficult to shoot out doors at night unless you want to drive for a few hours and have a friend with land. This makes it difficult to set a laser up properly as going to a rifle friendly indoor range would not allow you to remove the daylight filter and get the focus right etc.

Dave

Originally Posted By TheOtherDave: I'm currently in the market for an IR laser, and am wondering if it's easy to bore-sight the laser to your electronic sight? In my area it's relatively difficult to shoot out doors at night unless you want to drive for a few hours and have a friend with land. This makes it difficult to set a laser up properly as going to a rifle friendly indoor range would not allow you to remove the daylight filter and get the focus right etc. Dave

I mount my PVS14 behind my aimpoint and adjust my IR laser to the Aimpoint dot.

The Other Dave,
I was playing around with the ideal mounting spot - so about once a week on my zeroing day I would move the sight - I am back to putting it centered over bbl but.
I dont use the PVS-14 for wpn mounted work.

Originally Posted By KevinB: I dont use the PVS-14 for wpn mounted work.

Very interested on your why's, like or dislikes on this configuration Kev?  You shoot with an NVD while head mounted?  I've had a hard time cheek-welding, more less a "chin" weld if I have to shoot with a helmet mounted NVD.  Nowadays all my shooting is done via my D-760 or Raptor 4x.  I usually walk around with the head mounted gear and when I see something that needs my attention, I then go to the Raptor or 760.

Edited to add:  I actually have two configurations I shoot with, one for med to long range and one for short range.  I will post some pics here shortly.  

Had the opportunity to 'fondle' a ANVPS7 gen 3 tube today and was amazed!  The question I have is what is the difference stereo-optic (if that's a word) wise between a mono tube verses a dual tube/binoc NV device?  Is there better depth perception with the binos vs the monos?  I'm searching for a head/goggle mount NV device... I'm lusting for the Night phantom dual tube Gen 3 binocs/goggles on infrared1.com, but would absolutely hate to see the price check.  How about a pair of PVS14's in a goggle platform?  You seem to be the lead man around here Victor, what do you suggest?  FWIW, can a PVS7 1gen be converted in to a gen3 with a tube 'upgrade'... seems the bodies look the same, but what about internally?  Thanks in advance!

I'm new to the whole NV world and I have a few questions.


My situation is kind of a post Katrina type of deal. Right after Katrina passed through, we were without power in my mom's subdivision for roughly about 10 days. Total darkness to some light depending on the moon, stars and clouds. At first I was thinking an Eotech with NV goggles so during the day I could just use the Eotech alone. But I also have seen some really nice scopes and figured I would ask and get other's imput about my situation before I purchase.

I'm looking to spend about $2,000.00 on NV in the next 2 months and would like some advise on what would be good under the conditions listed below.

1) Urban
2) Total darkness to little light
3) Will not blind me when muzzle flashes(I pray it doesn't go to letting off rounds)
4) Ranges from 20 yards out to 150 yards
5) 2 grand or under

Thanks, Wesley

tag

tag

Originally Posted By Victor: Originally Posted By scratchdawg: is a rail mount available for the PVS-18 ? Talk with NED, great guy.   www.mountsplus.com/thestore/PVS-18_MOUNT.html

Any words of update concerning your own MUM weapon mount?

Originally Posted By Victor: Here is my set up and results.....Hope this helps img.photobucket.com/albums/v621/Clutch99/Tactical%20Packages/PICT0742.jpg

Curious. How comparable is the PVS-14 with a 3X magification lens to, say, a D-740 (closest equivalent I can think of)?

It's not the same comparison, of course, but my current project has specs for both a MUM and a magnified NV scope.  With MUM now in hand, I've tried it in conjunction with a 4-14x scope with the expected reduction in FOV.  This leads me toward the D-760 (hand select) for the magnified NV optic, except I've not truly given full consideration to the option of a 3X lens and MUM adapter.  Makes me wonder if I'm overlooking it out of hand.  The D-760 will, naturally, have better range and possesses a reticule not, I expect, available in any 3X lens version.

ETA : There is, also a 5X mil-spec magnification lens for the PVS-14, at approximately $1000.  Then again, there's a 3X commercial grade model, but when compared at a price of $99 v. $479 for the mil-spec, you have to wonder about quality.

Originally Posted By wjwill: I'm new to the whole NV world and I have a few questions. My situation is kind of a post Katrina type of deal. Right after Katrina passed through, we were without power in my mom's subdivision for roughly about 10 days. Total darkness to some light depending on the moon, stars and clouds. At first I was thinking an Eotech with NV goggles so during the day I could just use the Eotech alone. But I also have seen some really nice scopes and figured I would ask and get other's imput about my situation before I purchase. I'm looking to spend about $2,000.00 on NV in the next 2 months and would like some advise on what would be good under the conditions listed below. 1) Urban 2) Total darkness to little light 3) Will not blind me when muzzle flashes(I pray it doesn't go to letting off rounds) 4) Ranges from 20 yards out to 150 yards 5) 2 grand or under Thanks, Wesley

I saw a used pair of PVS-7's on the EE today for $17 or 1800 today. They would totally fit your requirements. You will have to have a flash suppressor for ANY NVD to work properly.

Okay, It's possible I missed something since after a couple pages aeverything started blending together...

But Trijicon tells me my NSN is night vision compatable. Any pics of that or any testing? LIke if it throws point of impact off or whatever?

tag

Maybe some bright soul could figure out for us which color filter to place between the Trijicon and the NV to screen out that amber bloom without sacrificing too much light.

Looked up some color theory and ordered a $4.99 light blue eyepiece filter from OPT.  It's supposed to screen out amber without losing a lot of light in the rest of the spectrum.

http://www.optcorp.com/product.aspx?pid=7446

 Light blue color filter arrived, tested with 6015 and TAONSN.  Another great scientific theory shot to he11.  I could see no difference at all in the reticle bloom, but there was now an annoying optical halo caused by the extra layer of glass, and the  picture was noticeably darker.  Any ideas?

Originally Posted By Victor: Interesting observations on the reflections guys....The only time I witnessed this is when I was in my back yard and the kitchen light spilled over.   Other than that, I have never seen this effect from the moon or in the field.  It makes sense if a light source hits the rear lens of the EO.  I just thought the EO glass is far enough back (in its own hood) to avoid this reflection scenario unless the light is emerging from the rear quadrants of the EO. The moon shouldn't play into these scenarios due to its upward position? Hmmm, I need to take a look at this phenomenon a bit closer.  Anyone else, please feel free to chime in here. I've sold numerous tactical pacakages to folks here along with EO's so I will inquire and see if they can post up their results.  Thanks Vic Edited to add, anyone see this with the Aimpoints?

Victor,

Do you have any more info on this topic?  I am currently considering a MUM/PVS-14 Eotech combination, and would like to know before hand if there are any issues.

Thanks!

hey vic, you can put a pv-14 in front of an acog? Does that work without problemes? i have always heard it was a no no to use NVD's with magnified optics. Please let me know as I would be very intereseted in thsi type of setup.

thanks

     


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Originally Posted By scuba_ed:
Hhmm...I may be in the correct forum now...I ran a search though failed to find an answer...any ideas?

I have two M-4's; both flat-top. I'm running one with an EOTech 552; the second with an ACOG 4x32. I would like to be able to swap a PVS-14 with these.

What would be the best mount for:

1) The PVS-14
2) The ACOG
3) The EOTech

Thanks!

Ed
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




Try a USGI PVS 14 mount.Mount it behind the EO Tech and infront of the ACOG.



-------My Apologies vic, it was not you that said this it was a memeber named wes1 on the first page of this forum.  I am new to night vision and am trying to "have it all" cheaply.  It would be nice to have a day night arragnemtn with small magnification like in the acog, and then put a pvs-14 on it for night.  I have been reseraching this for several months to no avail.  I am setting up this rig to hunt hogs in the evening and then on into the night at a distance of 200 yeards or less.  ANy solutions would be appreciatied.  FYI I'm using subsonic supressed .308 and or .458 socom so my range is rather limited anyway.  While i could usually hit them with something like an aimpoint or an eotech a four times or 3.5 times magnification would defintealy help in shot placemt.

The only problem with mounting the NV behind and using the Eotech, is the image burn. The Eotech reticule image WILL burn onto your PVS14 (and probably other NV).

Yes, you can probably get rid of the burnt image by the 'turn on your 14 for hours on end' method, but I personally don't want to add hours onto my tube just to get rid of the image. Had to do it once, and won't do it again.

Originally Posted By Victor: Image burn will occurr if you have the EO too bright.  I keep my reticle setting only barely visible for NV work and there is never any burn.  A bit brighter if I have a IR illuminator on.   Hope this helps Vic

Same here.

Any "burn" goes away in about 30 seconds if you keep the power low.

Originally Posted By Victor: Your BEST bet is a GG&G universal mount and PVS-14 ring. The mount itself stays on the gun and the PVS-14 stays on the lens housing of the 14 and simply pops in and out.  For added distance, the Mil-Spec 3x magnifier is an awesome pice of gear that screws into the lens of the PVS-14. Good for ID and shots out to 200-250 yards.  See pics below. Hope this helps, img.photobucket.com/albums/v621/Clutch99/Noveski/PICT0069.jpg img.photobucket.com/albums/v621/Clutch99/Noveski/PICT0061.jpg img.photobucket.com/albums/v621/Clutch99/Tactical%20Packages/PICT0036.jpg 3x Lens on the 14. img.photobucket.com/albums/v621/Clutch99/Tactical%20Packages/PICT0744.jpg img.photobucket.com/albums/v621/Clutch99/Tactical%20Packages/PICT0747.jpg

you say the 3x magnifier is good out to 250 yards for shots, and the pvs-14 does not have a recticle, what do we use for a aiming device? the eotech? or what. In the picture it looks perhaps as if you might be suing an aiming laser. Is this correct? or can we use the eotech with the magnifier in place. I'm trying to rig up for night hog hunting but I was told that it was illegal to hunt any game with a laser. Dont' know the real scoop on that but anyway let me know what you use to aim.

thaks

Originally Posted By Victor: Indeed the EO Tech has the only reticle that is used for the aiming aspect.  The PVS-14 and/or the 3x magnifier have no reticle built into the units.  The only NV devices that do are the NV rifle scopes such as the D-740 or D-760.  Hope this helps. Vic

so we can use the eotech in conjunction with the pvs-14 AND the 3x Magnifier? or not? If not what were you using for aiming at 250 yard shot's as previouly stated

Here is my set up with an Surefire M951 Light system/Surefire IR Filter ... I also have a Regal 5200 IR Illuminator That I took an A.R.M.S. Low QD Ring and modified it to use with the IR light.

Since it came out so well....I thought I would post some pics and instruction on how I modified an extra A.R.M.S. QD mount to fit my Regal 5200

I have one mounted to my surefire rail via a single modified QD ARMS L ring. The regal 5200 works great in conjunction with my PVS14 and EoTech. I can focus the beam and I have shot coyotes at 200-300- Meters with out a problem.

If you are interested how I modified the ARMS ring here is how I did it
Items needed:
HS Dremmel tool with cut off disk and grit wheel.
Small Counter Sink
Fine small file
Pencil
Measureing device (caliper)

Cut off the ring at the base ... make sure you leave enough material to work with. Pencil out geometry of your cuts and then begin to grind down with grit wheel.. take small bites as it grinds well with this tool.
I used fine file for for final sizing of  the final angles making sure I was about .01 larger to make sure I achieved a "tight fit" when I tightened down set screw.

I mimicked the base geometry (sort of trapezoidal) of the regal 5200...
drill and tap a hole through the center of the base of the mount.
Touch the bottom of the hole drilled with the counter sink to remove Burr.

I used a large Hex Head screw so I would get a greater surface area for compression of the Regal 5200 Base and the QD ARMS L Rings you will get all most a "press fit" (that will be stronger than the two Phillips head screws that hold on the regal 5200 IR Tube)

Removed the base of the Regal 5200 (2 Phillips head screws)

Drilled a hole to match the OD of the threads of the Large Hex Head screw

Tighten down the Large Hex Head screw to the base and the drilled and Tapped ARMS Ring so that the Head of the screw would be positioned between the base and the Tube body of the Regal 5200.

Now the tricky part ( lol) little by little you have to take a half moon cut off the head of the Large Hex Head Screw to allow clearance for the Regal 5200 Tube when you reattach the modified assembly to the main body of the Regal 5200. ( took of the Regal 5200 Base before I did this so not to Marr it)

Viola a tactical QD ARMS mounted Regal 5200 IR Illuminator

If you have any question feel free to email me ...bottom line the regal 5200 is a slick High speed Low drag neat little thingy.

Regards,
"Doc"
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/1003/DocMinster/IMG_0008.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/1003/DocMinster/IMG_0007-1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/1003/DocMinster/IMG_0006.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/1003/DocMinster/IMG_0005-1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/1003/DocMinster/IMG_0004-1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/1003/DocMinster/IMG_0005.jpg

Originally Posted By Victor: Originally Posted By ARCOLLECTOR: Originally Posted By Victor: Indeed the EO Tech has the only reticle that is used for the aiming aspect.  The PVS-14 and/or the 3x magnifier have no reticle built into the units.  The only NV devices that do are the NV rifle scopes such as the D-740 or D-760.  Hope this helps. Vic so we can use the eotech in conjunction with the pvs-14 AND the 3x Magnifier? or not? If not what were you using for aiming at 250 yard shot's as previouly stated Yes

Do we need to mount the  eotech, then i guess in front of the pvs-14 with the 3x magnifier attached?  Does that not magnify the eotech recticle?  

Just out of curiousity, does anyone happen to know where I could get PVS-4 parts? I've got two broken units I'm going to try to salvage into a new unit.  

They are a bit old school, but you can't beat free! :D

Originally Posted By wicked_chicken: ...get PVS-4 parts?

NV Depot parts page

Originally Posted By Victor: Mav and Heron....PLEASE read pg. 1 of this thread where I compared the D-760 vs. Raptor.  I deal with the D-760 for over a year now and my opinion STILL stands.  With a select A, hand select tube, the D-760 CANNOT BE BEAT, well except for the Raptor at a 1000 yards or better! It's half the price and half the weight! Plus the Raptor is now restricted to LE and military new sales only.   Vic Edited to add..Mav, I emailed/IM you on some info.

Anohter bunch of assholes restrciting there sales to MO/LE. Makes me freaking sick to my stomach.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!