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Posted: 4/10/2021 12:46:34 PM EDT
Ok, first off, not a door kicker or anything like it.  I have shot a few night 2 and 3 gun matches with a variety of weapon mounted and white and colored lights, and even a couple of varieties of laser.  I think I want to up my game a bit but I also absolutely understand the maxim of "Speed costs, how fast can you afford to go?"  The answer is up to Y'all (sortof).  The problem, of course is that I don't want to spend the $$ for new, top of the line gear that ends up worth more than my truck...to play a GAME that I might participate in once a year.   The other problem is I'm not trying to discuss what is the best or what is the cheapest, I want to come up with a solution that is better than hunting around in the weeds with a red light for the targets while being worried about the idiot that keeps flashing his 7 million lumen surefire white light in my face.

The common advice I see is to buy used but I almost instantly realized that I do not possess nearly enough detailed knowledge to be able to pull that off successfully without either getting ripped off or worse yet, buying something that I shouldn't...which I guess is also getting ripped off.  I also realize that watching youtube videos and browsing random internet forums with zero hands on experience with the equipment isn't really conducive to making solid choices either.  I feel like the noob that has never held a gun but only read about it on the internet deciding to build a gun from an 80% with the intention of entering in a 1000y competition.  Yes, its possible, and people have done it, but the odds don't favor a good outcome.  And then I did find the PSYCONICS thread and I thought to myself, hey, I am a technology guy and while I don't understand NV electronics, I DO understand cameras and F Stops, so maybe this is an option.  Unfortunately it seems that most of the posters are trying to replicate PVS14s on the cheap for all around use.  

So, *MY* use seems to be more or less:

  • Navigating to the stages (can't be gun mounted, for obvious reasons)

  • Performing the walkthrough (can't be gun mounted, for obvious reasons)

  • Performing administrative tasks like loading mags, range reset, etc. (can't be gun mounted, for obvious reasons)

  • Shooting the stage (gun mounted seems easier, if only one gun, but 3 gun complicates this)

  • Whatever I choose MUST be able to discern brown cardboard targets and lead colored steel targets.  I have seen pictures where some colors just wash out under NV.

  • My long guns lend themselves to mounting something fairly easily, I have no idea about what to do about the pistol.

  • Having to deal with multigun stages seems to argue toward head mounting of some type but I saw a youtube video that said its much harder to aim with head mounted vs weapon mounted.

  • If I can find a good solution and not to have to wear a helmet, I think that would be preferable

  • I don't know if I will be allowed an IR light or laser within match rules.  I assume yes if nods are usable, but I have learned to never underestimate random rulemaking.



So, obviously my needs are different than hunters, doorkickers or the TEOTWAWKI crews although there is some overlap.
Link Posted: 4/12/2021 12:56:23 PM EDT
[#1]
So are you wanting to shoot some NV only matches or will you be going against guys with white light?  

If you are allowed to use white lights at the matches I think that’s going to be your best option given your criteria.

NV is great but you are going to spend thousands on something that isn’t fast to focus between close up inspection and shooting targets at distance, needs illum/laser to be fast, could get damaged by really bright light sources from other guys and may not be great at making it easy to discern between the cardboard/steel depending on the setup/conditions.

I’m about to shoot a night match and have a decent NV setup but chose to run white lights because I think I will be much faster.
Link Posted: 4/12/2021 1:52:49 PM EDT
[#2]
There has been lots of interest in NV only night matches, or at very least classes within existing night competitions.

Link Posted: 4/12/2021 3:09:40 PM EDT
[#3]
Ive shot a couple of night matches with lights and a few stages with IR/NV. the lights were fastest for me, no laser. Since you can do what you want pretty much, I would suggest the following:

head lamp for admin tasks/getting to stages. Turn it on high at start of stage for close up
glow sticks or low LEDs on your gun wagon to find it
Pocket light for navigation
TRL HL on pistol with red dot if you want to play that division
1/2 good lights on each long gun. Since most people mount lights for being right handed, all the stages seemed to want to block that. So having a second light on the other side of the gun was beneficial.

focus on shooting without the laser. I was slower using a laser than I was with just regular iron sights, which happened to be lit up by the aforementioned headlamp
Link Posted: 4/12/2021 3:45:32 PM EDT
[#4]
Try petitioning indoor ranges. Of course, the distances as well as backdrop will be limited but with imagination most indoor ranges could be set up to accommodate such an event.

This makes me wonder how indoor ranges are set up. Is it just a protected back wall or are the side walls also beefed up?
Link Posted: 4/12/2021 3:51:51 PM EDT
[#5]
+1 for your kit costing more than your truck
Link Posted: 4/12/2021 11:44:41 PM EDT
[#6]
Ok, some more background, a local outdoor range near me used to run a yearly night 3 gun match on Friday night/ Saturday morning after Thanksgiving.  It was out in the boonies so very little light pollution, but they allowed whatever lights/lasers, etc you wanted.  My local indoor club used to run a dark USPSA -ish match on New Years day every year.  Last year a bigger (2 day) 3 gun match had a 3 stage night 3 gun side match Saturday evening into Sunday AM.  At that match, some guys had NVG, and some had night vision on their rifles.  Unfortunately, there were also idiots and their kids running around swinging white lights everywhere.

That same range is putting on a night 3 gun match this year that says "no white lights" and NV allowed.  This seems like a fun challenge, and I like shooting at night.  I can already run it with red light and laser(s) (I am a little shakey on exactly what the rules are as I post this, but as it gets closer I will sort out exactly what is allowed).  I had the idea of trying a sionyx on a PCC with a NV red dot, but before I spent the measly $1000+ to set this up I figured I would ask here.
Link Posted: 4/13/2021 8:17:29 AM EDT
[#7]
We've ran 3gun and Steel Challenge stages under NV. If you haven't done it before, I'd recommend just starting with steel challenge. Running under NV takes practice and while it can be funny to see people trip, it can be concerning when they have a loaded gun in their hands. Safety is key at night. Everyone will want to play with equipment and try on different helmets and try different lights. It’s easy for people to break safety protocols just because they want to try someone else’s NV. The way that we squaded the groups was by equipment. One squad used dedicated NV and two other squads used white light. It worked great. The final times were interesting to see. Just like anything else, it was skill and separated the good shooters from bad. NV did not really seem to be an equation on the times. The good shooters still shot well under NV and vice versa. Of course, there are always the group of folks that suck no matter what equipment they use (I’m in this boat).

It's great practice! Get out there and practice and practice. Shooting under NV makes it so much fun, it can punish or reward you. Can you reload your mags under zero light? Do you practice reloads and weapon malfunctions without ever looking down? After practicing with NV, you’ll learn the importance of weapons handling while staying target focused. Clint Smith claims staying target focused is absolutely important and he would blindfold some of the folks in our class so they would quit looking at their guns to reload or fix malfunctions. Being target focused is key, but we can get away with looking away during the day, you don’t have the option at night.

In my opinion, the cheapest option of getting into quality NV is the NGI Gen3 Commercial spec WP PVS14. I would stay clear of the Sionyx for shooting matches. Check out this VIDEO. He explains some of the short comings of the Sionyx. I was looking into getting a pair of them for my wife, but after reading enough on them, I’m confident I’d rather prolong my purchase, save more money, and purchase exactly what I want. Buy a camera for filming, buy analog NV for shooting.

If you can work it into your budget, NV is an awesome experience. You'll find lots more uses other than just shooting with it. I love letting others look through it for the first time and their face lighting up when they can look at the stars in the sky. We joke about it a lot, but it really is a superpower.
Link Posted: 4/18/2021 5:02:43 PM EDT
[#8]
I got to play in one of Gunsite's shoothouses the other night.

PVS-15s with an ATPIAL set to laser only with momentary grip switch worked really well.  
Last couple targets I simply snap shot though, as they were close enough I really didn't need sights or a laser.

For a handgun, I'd want a small reflex sight.  It's a bit odd, because your hands and firearm are obviously out of focus, but your reticle is infinity colimated, so it's perfectly in focus under nogs.
Link Posted: 4/18/2021 6:02:11 PM EDT
[#9]
If you do not want to run a helmet look at the Crye Nightcap.
PVS-14 for NV is more economical option but duals would be better but someone else would have to say how a dual setup would work out with the Nightcap given the additional weight

NV compatible Red Dots for the longs guns like Aimpoint T-2, Aimpoint M5, Eotech EXPS3-0, with higher mounts like the Unity Tactical or KAC Skyscraper so you can run more heads up

Red Dot like the Trijicon RM06 3.25 adjustable for the handgun

If they allow you to run an IR laser for the long guns that would be even better.
Link Posted: 4/18/2021 6:26:54 PM EDT
[#10]
1) you definitely want to head mount your NV since weapon mounted is limited to overwatch/hunting.
2) as far as aiming a weapon mounted LAM is faster for rifles, but also having the ability to passively aim through your RDS is a great option to have.
3) admin/checking targets/loading mags are accomplished with a low output white light headlamp or helmet mounted light. When going dark using a red light can supplement for task when others are shooting.
4) choosing a NOD for a new user a new XLS PVS14 with a 10 year warranty is probably the best choice for @ 2600. If you can swing 5,500 XLS binos would be a great choice. Most people have an easier time learning to move/navigate with both eyes aided, but with a little time on a mono you will not be at a disadvantage using a 14. If you know someone that really knows NV buying used can save you a bunch of money. A good late Gen3 PVS7 aka the poor mans bino runs @ 1500 or a used 14 @ 1,800.
5) Some may recommend a Sionyx action cam which are meh, but really struggle in low light without supplemental IR, lag when scanning/moving even with messing with the settings and have horribly depth perception with little rectangle LCD screens.

NV is expensive, but saving up and waiting is better than spending on something that kinda gets you by, but kinda sucks. Also beware not all Gen3 is equal tubes/glass/housings, buying from a reputable company is a must, and getting advice from others that have been around for awhile so you don't get burned will keep you from making costly mistakes.
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