I bought a Frankfort Arsenal wet tumbler and am wanting to check it out. Just have some questions first.

Here’s the tumbler I purchased




1. Exactly how many ponds of the stainless media do I need to put in the drum?

2. Do I have to use the FA cleaning solution or would dawn dish soap accomplish the same thing?

3. Is there a time I should set it for, or just turn it to 3 hours and forget it till it’s done?

I am sure I’m forgetting/missing something, so any advice you could offer on wet tumbling I’d greatly appreciate. This is my first time with it. Been using a vibratory with corn cob husks. Will be tumbling rifle and pistol brass.

Sorry for any typos or mistakes….. typed this out on my iPad.

Thanks.

Here you go.

Everyone had their own "rain dance" when it comes to FARTing.

Most of us use some form of the following though:

Pins (I use all 5 lbs or whatever it came with)
Dawn (a healthy 2-3 second squirt)
Lemishine (most use powder, a 45 ACP case worth. I use liquid and do about 15ml of it)

I tumble for four hours.

If it is SUPER dirty I'll do two hours, dump the yuck, refresh the dawn/lemishine and do another 2 hours.

I use the whole bag (5 pounds) of stainless media.  You don't need to use their cleaning solution.  Dish soap works great as does car wash soap.  I also use a table spoon of Lemishine to make the cases look brighter.  I get the best results from tumbling for 2.5 to 3 hours.  Get a media separator and fill the lower half with water.  Then pour your tumbled brass in and tumble for a minute or two.  This makes removing the stainless media effortless because when the brass in submerged in water, the surface tension is removed and the media just falls out.

As far as media, I highly recommend ditching the stuff that comes with the FART (its not bad, infact its pretty good being from a manufacturer). But I recommend Southern shine media  as far as how much,they have a chart you canuse to determine it.  But between 5-10 lbs is good.

As far as solution, im a fan of the dish soap and lemi-shine.  **more lemi-shine doesnt = better.  Just a tiny bit goes a long way..  

Time wise will 100% determine on how much brass u put i there.  Fill it about half way up with brass,, 3 hrs is fine. Fill it up 3/4 - almost full.. prib will take 6 hours.

While I don't have the FART I would tell you don't over think it. Plain dawn and lemishine. I don't measure anything. Squirt of dawn, teaspoon of lemishine give or take, literally a handful of pins and 3/4 full of brass in a harbor freight rock tumbler for 4 hours. Brass comes out clean and shiny everytime.

TXOUTLAW32, I'm betting you will love it.

I want to say I used a whole 5 pound bag of SS pins with every batch I've ran.

I did use the Frankford Arsenal Brass Cleaner and a few drops of LemiShine...  I've read other folks have had good luck with others.  Can't hurt to try.

I ran a load of 9mm, then a load of .45 and a load of 5.56 and .300 Blk mixed.  All came out gleaming and looking like new brass.  
I de-primed each casing 1st so the pins could get the primer pockets and flash holes good.

I told a friend who reloads much more than I about how good they came out. He said, Meh, I aint loading for show, who cares how they look.
Then he came over and we ran a batch...  He said, Damn, looks like I need to spend some money.

You'll want a ""Transfer magnet" for picking up and sorting pins, a good smooth towel that you don't care if it gets dirty to dump the cleaned brass out on and separate the brass from the pins.

Some folks will tell you you can't pick up SS pins with a magnet as ""Muh SS aint magnetic""...
BS... I've done it many times.  
It is possible that the pins I bought as SS are not SS, but they look like it and it works well.

Use Armor All Wash & Wax instead of Dawn.

Dawn works very well, maybe too well. It so completely cleans and degreases everything you can run into issues with the brass acting sticky.

The Wash & Wax leaves a bit of wax behind which prevents that sticking / galling issue. It also helps prevent tarnishing of your shiny clean brass.

If you're taking your wet-tumbled brass and spraying them down with lube to resize right away, the super-clean brass you get from Dawn isn't a problem. But if this tumble is your last step before loading the brass, use the Wash & Wax.

OP, go through the instructions in the thread dryflash3 linked.  That’s a “how to” guide for wet tumbling.

Go with the Dawn and Lemishine formula until you’re comfortable with the process.  Don’t go mixing things up before you see how a “known good” process works.

A quality soap like Dawn is important to getting your brass really clean, and Lemishine is important to getting a lasting shine.  The soap helps capture the gunk the media scrapes off the brass.  And the citric acid content in the Lemishine chemically treats the brass (it’s called passivation) to make it shine nice and resist tarnishing.

I have some brass I wet tumbled years ago that is still nice and bright.

I’m looking forward to seeing how you like wet tumbling.  I bet you’ll love it.

WOW!!! Thank you all for the responses. I truly appreciate them.

I will be doing some reading on the various links provided to learn and see others results.

I like the “don’t over think it”, I must admit I have been guilty of that in the past.

I will absolutely keep this thread updated with my “recipes”, results and my observations. I am truly looking forward to trying this process out.

Again thank you all for the responses. Nice to see so many willing to help out.

Dawn dish soap and Lemishine is the way to go.  The Franklin Armory pods are a waste of money, and it's just something else you have to buy.  A small canister of Lemishine lasted over a year...about 4,000 pcs of brass.  A small bottle of Dawn will last years.

Go to Amazon and search for "1/8" Stainless Steel Diagonal Tumbling Media Shot".  I prefer this over the pins because I found the pins get easily jammed in case neck of my 6.5 Creedmoor brass.  

I tumble with a small harbor freight rock tumbler, so I only use a dash of Lemishine (I don't measure, just dump a small amount in...I'd guess it's about a 1/2 tablespoon.  A 9mm or 45acp case is a good measurement).  

I tumble for about 45-60 minutes.  Brass comes out looking better than new.  

Drying is really the more challenging part.  Some people let it air dry on a towel, some use a food dehydrator...I use my oven.  After I separate the media from the brass, I do a quick dry on a dish towel, then spread the brass out on a cookie sheet.  Set the oven for 150 degrees, and cook the brass for 30 minutes.  Another quick roll in a towel removes any water spots.  


This guy does a great job of comparing options...and it's really just a great channel in general.

I too notice the same thing.  I use wash & wax everytime now, It is not a huge cost addition.  I also noted that my brass stays shinier longer- Maybe its just me but i feel that its better.

My "tumble recipe" is:
   • 1 Gallon of water
   • 5 pounds of pins
   • 2 tbsp of ArmorAll Ultra Shine Wash & Wax
   • ½ tsp of LemiShine
   • Add decapped cases (usually 50 to 150 .308 Win cases)
   • Tumble cases for 1 to 1.5 hours.
   • Drain, rinse until water clear & no suds
   • Separate cases & medium
   • Dry cases

To tumble cases, I put the tumbler in the master bathtub and turn it on...  then close the master bath door AND the master bedroom door (2 closed doors between me and tumbler noise)...  

Lots of good advice.  

Dawn and Lemi-shine.  Tumble time depends on whether or not you have hard or soft water.  De-cap first to clean the primer pockets.  I used the whole bag of pins that came with the machine.  Don't over-fill the drum with brass (you want the tumble - agitate action, kinda like a washing machine -- typically 2/3 to 3/4 full).

I tumble the wet stuff out of the drum in my Dillon squirrel-tumbler (fill the tub with water to help separate the pins).  I use Frankfort's magnet.

I put a drop-cloth in the driveway and spread the brass out.  Texas summer heat and sunshine will dry them out in a few hours.

I trim rifle brass with a Giraud AFTER everything's tumbled and dried.

All I'll add is watch for this:



I usually have a universal decapping die in my loading toolhead. This one might have broken the pin though.

Might try the diagonal media mentioned above.

All great advice in this thread. I'll only add that I haven't used SS pins in over a year. Primer pockets won't be perfect but they look good enough for me, even with pins mine never came out spotless anyway.
I know separating isn't a huge deal but now I don't have to deal with them at all.
.223 I did last week.
Attached File

I get great results using my FART without the pins. Its not as good but its close and its so so so much easier not having to separate and deal with the pins

Good to know - thank you!

I'm using a tumbler I made out of 4" pvc pipe with some delrin lifters inside, so my recipes won't work for you.  But after much trial and error, it's a larger problem to use too much lemishine than not enough.  I switched from dish liquid to wash and wax several years ago.  The only downside to too much detergent is the waste.

The brass and pins need some room to tumble around but I fill my tumbler to the bottom of the 2" neck leaving about 3" of head room after I get the brass in.  That's much quieter than a nearly empty  tumbler which is important to me because it's right beside my computer desk.  You may not be able to do that because of weight limitations on your tumbler, I have no idea how large it is.

To clean rifle, I wet tumble the first time with only detergent (cheap Ajax dishwashing liquid), no pins and only for 20-30 minutes.  The cases falling against each other clean the outsides remarkably well.  Drain the cases in a colander, pour them out into a towel, do the bowling ball polishing thing a few times, dump them into a vibratory tumbler with walnut for about another 30 minutes to dry them.  Lube and resize, then a 2-4 hour wet tumble with pins, wash and wax & lemishine.  Drain as before, walnut for 30 minutes, load them up or store them.

Now for the controversial method with pistol brass.  As near as I can tell, your success or failure will depend on your exact water chemistry.  I've never had a problem, but I'd suggest you do a few tests to see what you can get away with.

My pistol brass gets wet tumbled once with wash and wax and lemishine for 2 to 4 hours depending on how bad it is WITH the primers still in.  With my water chemistry, I've never had a problem with ringing, ie, punching out the top of the primer leaving the sides still in the primer pocket.  Drain, then tumble in walnut for 30 minutes to dry.  Stored for years like that and still don't have ringing problems.  I have a progressive press, so I don't have to deprime as a separate step, so I don't.  Pistol brass doesn't really need clean primer pockets like precision rifle does.

If you don't pre-rinse your dirty cases and there's a gravel or two or sand left on the cases, when you tumble them, you'll get a matt finish.  Doesn't hurt anything as far as I can tell, but they won't be the shiny new brass look.

Good luck, keep us informed with your progress.

I generally only have pins stick in .30 Carbine and .32 Auto cases - except when I run into odd cases or cases with damaged flash holes.

I bought Southern Shine chip media - it’s literally tiny stainless milling chips - for those two specific calibers.  Chips work pretty much the same as pins, but being less identical to each other they sometimes don’t scrub quite as well.  No biggie, but it’s something I watch.  Southern Shine is here on Facebook,  it I don’t think they have a real web presence.

Since I often tumble “compatible” but different calibers together, I have a habit of eyeballing the case heads, even if I don’t have to sort out different calibers.  If I find stuck pins, I get the pins out (usually with surgical pick-ups) and separate out the pins.  If the flash hole isn’t obviously weird, I blame the pins and they get recycled.

One note on magnets: they can be useful for retrieving stray pins, but pins can become magnetized, which can make them stick together and jam up flash holes.  Once I get that stray pin collected, I take it off the magnet immediately.  Many of my “bad” pins have been magnetized, rather than being out of spec.

Again.. thank all of y’all for the replies and the advice. It is much appreciated.

My plan was to have had at least one or 2 test runs by now to report back to everyone on how it went……well as we all know, some of the best laid plans have hiccups….. mine did! Nothing mechanical or even reloading related.

Apparently my right kidney decided it was time to evict a 10mm stone and my left kidney said ‘hold my beer’ and kicked a 12mm out. Needless to say much pain insured and I was/am heavily medicated on Percocet as we speak. I also had the pleasure of getting to have emergency surgery on both today……. Laying in bed recovering from that now.

SO….. new plan, recover from the surgery, get off the high powered pain meds so I can see and focus, then make my trial/test runs and report back to yall. Hoping for late tomorrow or Sunday for that to kick in.

Again, thanks for the advice, info, suggestions etc. I enjoy reading them and learning. I look forward to being able to report back ASAP.


Also…. Forgive me for any typos, ramblings or flat out “that makes no sense”. Like I said, still coming off anesthesia and on Percocet at the same time. Honestly, I am kind of surprised I’m not drooling on the keyboard right now.

TXOutlaw

Get well soon!

Welcome to the wet tumbler club!

Shiny reloads await you!

ETA: I was going to start a new thread, but thought it would be ok to just ask here… about the Dawn vs car wash/wax thing, does that apply with an ultrasonic cleaner also? I’ve had problems with handgun brass sticking in dies and have needed a little case lube to stop it. Any certain brand that is superior?

Thank you. I am working on it!

By all means post your question here. I’m interested in seeing the answer/s myself. There’s been great answers for my question so far and more that subject as well.

Oh man….. that sucks! I can only imagine the lovely sounds that made.

If the brass is just going to be blasting ammo and was cleaned previously with pins, I just dump in the brass, don't bother with the pins, give it a squirt of dawn and a few shakes of lemishine, fill it about 2/3 of the way with water, and go turn it on and probably forget about it and let it run until I remember it. It will get the exterior of the brass perfect even without the pins. If I want to go the extra mile to get the insides like new and clean the primer pockets, I throw the pins in there(all 5# it came with, minus whatever I have lost at this point). Other than that, it's pretty straightforward and simple. Run it for somewhere between 1 hour and whenever I remember it, then rinse it while straining the pins out, then toss in the oven at 225 until dry. I really try not to overthink it.

After the brass is out of the oven, I dump it into 1-2 gallon ziplock backs when it is still fairly warm to the touch, then spray in some spray on case lube, shake the hell out of it to spread the lube, then leave it open for the lube to evaporate and it is ready for resizing. If it's pistol brass, I skip the lube part.

I use mine only in my utility sink in the basement. I bought a clear P trap with a clean out port just for seeing if pins/brass fell down in there.  I clean it out on the regular.

I use mesh strainers in both sink drains, just in case.  They’re fine enough to stop pins, but they pass water as if they aren’t there.

Sometimes I want more security than that.  It turns out that some yogurt cups are a pretty tight fit for standard kitchen drains.  Cups like this:

They’re a standard size and shape, so your local grocery’s house brand may use the same cups.  They close the drain way better than standard drain plugs, and the top stays even with the sink bottom instead of in the drain, so pins can’t sneak past them.

I just clean my brass with Blue Coral Car Wash soap, no pins just water.

I’m fairly new to FART, too.  I use their prepacked cleaner & tumble with pins.  I have hard water, high in Magnesium & Calcium, so i tot water spots & white crap in my primer pockets.  Note the citric acid in FART cleanser & LeminShine can damage brass if soaked too long.  I’ve never experienced this, but i only tumble 3 hrs.

I use tap water to rinse the cases, the do a final rinse in distilled water or dehumidifier water (it’s theoretically just water, no minerals)— one gallon soak for 5 mins, dump & repeat.

I have a food dehydrator i use to dry the brass in Summer, due to basement humidity.

I don't care if my brass is absolutely perfect, I just care that it's clean and reasonably blingy.  This is my method.


Deprime with Lee APP press.  If brass isn't super nasty or full of dirt it gets done with no pins.

Mixture (1500 pies of 9mm with pins, 1600'ish without)

3 capfuls of Dawn Wash and Wax, 5 9mm cases of Leminshine and whatever temp water comes out of the hose.

Run for 1.5 hours, rinse and seperate pins with Frankford Wet Dry media seperator.

Roll around in towel, if it's super hot and sunny I will just leave on towel and it's too hot to touch an hour later, if it's only semi sunny/warm I'll transfer to some $1 cookie sheets and let them air dry/heat up.


Now that I have the FART I am going to do all my tumbling in the warmer months as I don't have a good way to rinse brass in the house (ain't using the Mrs kitchen sink...I value my unit )

I'll throw in my $0.02.

- you can use citric acid instead of lemonshine.  It's much cheaper for how much you get.  Don't use too much, as it is strong stuff - if you use too much your brass will come out darker
- you don't need a magnet.  You can use a FART media seperator - works great!  I usually tumble my media for 30 min after sizing / trimming to get the shavings and dirt out, then tubmble another 1.5 hours with a pinch of citric acid, Dawn and pins.  I tried no pins but it's so much more clean with the pins and really they aren't a big deal.
- I also use a media sifter to separate the bulk of the pins from the cartridges when rinsing the brass

I tried using a dry tumbler but the wet tumbler works so much better imo, esp with the pins! Good luck!

As I’ve mentioned in the past, one real benefit I see from wet tumbling is that I can really see the condition of the brass.  Dirt and tarnish can hide flaws, but blingy brass is naked to the world and real flaws can’t hide.  

They don’t need to be excruciatingly shiny to reveal those flaws.  But really clean sure helps.  And reading oddball headstamps is easier when they’re clean, too.

And here we have the holy grail of brass treatment!

OP, in Houston here and I just wanted to post that our water has changed so much over the last five or so years I started treating with less than a 45 careful of lemishine to get close to dryflash’s coloring but now I have to use two acp cases but as cautioned in your thread start with maybe half a case.

Just to add, you'll know you've gone too far with the Lemishine if your cases start to take on a pinkish hue.

And that pink color isn’t a real problem.  It will tumble off with walnut media.  But it does say you’re using more Lemishine than you should.

Well I’m just North of you up in Conroe.

My plan is to go “light” on everything and adjust as needed. I have a water softener so I already know with it, a little goes a long way.

Sorry I havent posted an update..... finally getting back to feeling better. However, things have kinda gone off the rails with finding out 2 friends passed this weekend. One by his own hand and one due to Covid complications. The one that passed from the Covid complications was a Marine Veteran, healthy and a man that did a lot for Veterans with PTSD. Had a business that centered around taking Veterans duck hunting.

They both were good men and the world is a little darker now that they are gone.


I will post some pics when I get a chance to run them. It will probably be on the weekend, but yall have my word that pics and "reviews" will be posted. Thank you.

I'm saddened by your loss.  Losing vets is hard, especially when....  Well anyway, it's not "22 a day" anymore, but any is still too many.  Lost a friend of a friend last week that way.

We'll be here when you can get back to thinking about fun things.  Take care of yourself and your friends' families.