I am new to reloading and bought a ton of m856 tracer bullets because they were cheap. How should I go about safely developing a load for these (ie how do I figure out a good safe starting powder charge). I am realizing now that no reloading manual will have data for this round. Is it acceptable to use data for any common 62 grain bullet and start from there? The issue here is that the m856 bullet is much longer than a normal 62 grainer and so you reduce case volume. I was planning on using Hodgdon H335 to load these up.

What confuses me is that there seems to be a ton of variation in published starting loads for the same grain bullet among different types/manufacturers of bullets and different manuals. THis also makes it very hard to "pick" a good reference loading for say a 62 grain bullet to use for these loads.

I'd appreciate any help with this.

Maybe buying these seems dumb, but I basically have a huge supply of free 5.56 brass and always wanted to get into reloading - these cheap bullets were what convinced me to buy a press.

Army TM 43-0001-27 has a little info.

On another note, be mindful that tracers are usually cheap because they can be hazardous to shoot. Just be aware that they will start brush fires.

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Fellow at our club started a major brush fire with tracers........also washed out a barrel in a few hundred rounds.

I have read that tracers light up after leaving barrel

I don't think you can burn a barrel like that just because of tracers. They aren't supposed to light inside the bore. Machineguns wouldn't make it through a range day if simply shooting tracers did that.

I also don't think you can shoot tracers and not start a fire in most of North America. You need to either be in a completely soaked swamp, or absolutely barren desert with nothing but sand. I don't recall hearing about a military range that didn't catch on fire any given day they shot tracers.

Usually when my unit did, they'd just follow up on the fire with a burst of 40mm HEDP if in range. The explosions can usually put out the fire if it's identified quickly. Also, I'm told that a HEDP is a very efficient method of disassembling a bison, if you have a chevron to spare.

They're usually visible by the 50-100yd mark.  


They start fires easily and are dangerous to shoot in all but the wettest conditions.  From personal experience, we had 1 lodge in a tree stump which burned 8+ acres of farmland.  The landowners were delighted in the end (field burns are no longer allowed), but it was tense for about 3 or 4 hours until it was gotten under control.

I've got a bunch from 20  years go.  I don't shoot them at all.

Back in the 70's, as kids, me and the neighbor were out shooting tracers and started a fire in some old deadwood.
Never used them for plinking again.
A dirt berm that will not allow a pass through should be safe.

OP:

You need to get some reloading manuals and read them.
Best would be a "mentor" to help you get set up and advice along the way.

As others have said...... tracers start fires.  
I hope you know that.  
They are banned on most if not all civilian ranges.
I hope you know that.  

As far as loads:  Dryflash covered it pretty well.  




To the others:
Look at the US Military load data Loki posted:

It has a cross section of the tracer bullet.
You'll see a closure cup, then a ignitor compound and then the tracer compound.  
The closure cup keeps the ignitor and tracer element in the bullet (so in storage it doesn't spill into the gunpowder or get mixed in with the powder)  and provides a delay.
So when shot, the burning powder from the case burns thru the closure cup and ignites the ignitor, which then ignites the trace element.

So YES, the ignitor and maybe the trace element itself ARE burning in the barrel as it exits............    

Thank you to all for all the information. With regards to the concerns about fires, I shoot on private land that gets extremely wet and swampy in the winter. I was planning on only using these within 200 yards mainly with a burm in the background and not shooting at steel targets...

With regards to the concern about burning barrels, I do not see how the tracers themselves would be harsh on barrels. However I thought that the military m856 loads used a hotter burning powder like WC844T - maybe this is untrue though given the information posted by lokifox. I would hope that loading them with normal Hodgdon H335 and not loading them crazy hot would not cause any more erosion than normal ammunition would.

Thanks for all the information on reloading. I found a bunch of load data on the Hodgedon website but was concerned since the max and recommended charges varied so much for different bullets. I guess that what you are saying is that for bullets like m856 you just find an FMJ or soft point load for ~63 grains and go off of that. How would you go about developing a load for something like SS109 though? doesn't the steel penetrator prevent you from using load data from any old normal 62 grain load? I plan on buying the Lyman 50th edition book and hopefully the Hornady book if I can find it.

Finally, just a general question about the recommended starting loads presented in these datasets - should these be considered to be minimum loads? If you wanted to be safe when developing a load for some military projectiles like ss109 or any other unknown projectile of known grains, is it ok to start off say 0.5 to 1 grains lighter charge than the recommended staring point?

Thanks for all the help. Its not like I can do anything yet though - just got into this and can't find a single primer for sale, but I'll stock up whenever those become available again.

They are very long bullets and they take up a lot of case volume. If you have 62 gr FMJ data REDUCE charges with the M856 tracer by  a full 1 1/2 to 2 grains.  Dim trace bullet and hard to see in bright sunlight and light up to be visable at 75 to 100 yds. and stays lit out to 900 yds. or so. Will start fires in leaves and dry grass. Just reduce charges with the long bullet and not a starting load but for max loads.

H335 lights them reliably. I've read that the tracers do not burn a barrel but they can leave residue that attracts moisture? I would consider a start charge with H335 to be around 22 grains and I would stop at around 23.5 grains. Just be careful working up.

Eugene:

".....With regards to the concern about burning barrels, I do not see how the tracers themselves would be harsh on barrels. However I thought that the military m856 loads used a hotter burning powder like WC844T - maybe this is untrue though given the information posted by lokifox. I would hope that loading them with normal Hodgdon H335 and not loading them crazy hot would not cause any more erosion than normal ammunition would......"

The picture that Loki showed and my explanation of how tracers work is self evident.  That is how tracers work.  All tracers are constructed the same way.  
So in addition to the burning powder, you have (depending on the exact conditions) the ignitor and/or trace element burning in the barrel as well.  
If that is a concern of yours or not, is up to you.  

As a beginner, I'll just say to you as well, that the question of "hotter"  powders (vs I guess "cooler" ones) is another long chapter of discussion.  
But generally ball powders burn "hotter" than a stick.  


Here's what I do, generally, if I wanted to match a factory load:
- Take some factory ammo (ie M856), shoot it thru my rifle and chronograph it.  (So I know with my rifle, my conditions etc what it is doing).
- take my components and with a low starting powder charge, see if I can SAFELY work up to the factory.  
- if I can safely do that, great.  If I can't get the velocities the factory is doing, oh well.  

NEVER SACRIFICE SAFETY CHASING VELOCITY.

I noticed nobody asked if you have proper case prep tools. You will need to learn the basics of proper case prepping before trying to stuff bullets and powder into cases. Have you gotten your case prep tool yet along with your press?

I still have sealed boxes of 856,, they only time I shot them was bottom of WV at inlaws property from a COLT 20" 1x7 barrel,, down there we would just hike the barrel up toward top of mountain way out in distance,, shoot,, and watch it light up in flight,, and burn out,, and let it carry on up-out till it fell from flight

Shooting 856 under 200yd be waste in my opinion, they move too fast, and by he time you pick up on the light, they impscting target..  shot a good load of 196,, only time I could pick up on they on 100yd was shooting them from 7.5" barrel (full load with 2200 FPS velocity),,, they was slow enough to light and just catch as it hit berm

Yeah so all the brass I have is once fired lake city brass so I bought a swager from Dillon to deal with the crimped pockets. I also tried washing a half 5gal bucket of brass at a time in hot water, soap + vinegar and that seemed to clean out any dirt. Also as long as I measure the cases and they are within spec and don't need trimming, what other case prep do I need to do?



Another question to everyone too: how "strict" are these starting load recommendations that reloading data books state? If you have a load that you want to start to make but say start off by loading 2 or 3 grains under the recommended starting load, would anything bad happen for these rifle rounds? You're not gonna get a squib from underloading by that much I wouldn't think

This. The 1-7 barrel twist was developed to allow use of tracers in 5.56. 1-8 may not stabilize properly, and 1-9 surely won't stabilize.

The US military generally links tracers for automatic weapons in a four "Ball" to one tracer ratio to mitigate the effects of the burnt ignitor and tracer compositions in the bore.  It can be a bitch to clean out properly and will attract moisture which leads to fouling and rust/corrosion.

You have the Army Small Caliber Data Sheet for M856 (M16A2 tracer) posted (above).  This one's for M16A1 tracers:

Attached File

Dude:
You need to stop right now............  you are asking all these in depth questions about reloading....... when what you should be doing is
reading several reloading manuals- like actually read them-, find a mentor and then start down this road.
You're running down this gravel road with no shoes on.
You need to figure out the basics, by then you might have all the components you need to start walking into this.  

Please just stop and figure out the basics ........like the required step of resizing the cases.            

The tracer is a flare consisting of organic fuel, metallic fuel, and an oxidizer.  Most NATO flares use magnesium as the metallic fuel.  In addition to the heat of the tracer burning, it leaves metallic oxides in the bore that are abrasive.  I would not worry about firing a few tracers, but I would not shoot a bunch in a barrel I cared about.

Just another bit of info: You notice in the chart above from the Army Ammunition Data Sheets that they showed 24.7 grains of WC 844 powder with the M856 tracer. If you also look at the sheet for the 62 grain FMJ M855 green tip bullet they list it using 26.1 grains of WC 844 powder. Just shows the long tracer bullet should be loaded with less of a charge and their data shows 1.4 grains less. However, the Army Ammunition Data Sheets should ONLY be used for reference and not to use their data to load your own. You can not get the exact powder they used and surplus powders can and do vary in burn rates.  Don't think you'll find any Reload Manuals with data for M856 tracer bullets so you need to carefully work up your loads.  You will not have any stuck bullets or blooper loads with H335 starting at 22 grains but you can start a little higher if you insist.  Like mentioned when you have the exact components in your manual USE the start charge as stated they are most often very weak loads and you shouldn't go below minimums.

I know you don't want to hear this, but do not cut corners with the prep. Get them all cleaned, deprimed and resized first. Then trim them all to spec, followed by chamfer and deburring. Make sure the primer pockets are uniform and clean along with the flash holes.

Just to make sure you know this here are my steps to loading rifle ammo.  Your comment above makes it sound like you don't know you need to size the cases.

1- Tumble to clean the crud off the cases
2- Lube cases
3- Full length re-size & de-prime
4- Run cases through a neck mandrel for perfect neck tension
5- Prep primer pockets if needed (swage, bevel entrance or square primer pocket floor)
6- Trim cases (they all go through the trimmer whether they need trimmed or not because that is faster than measuring them all then trimming the ones that need it)
7- Tumble cases to clean lube and any brass shavings

After all that's done then it's time to prime cases, fill 'em up and seat a bullet.

This (minus #4 unless you're loading match ammo).  I do # 5 & 6 to all because it's just easier, if your primer pocket tool/crimp remover and case trimmer are powered or on a drill.

To everyone telling me about resizing - yes obviously I'm planning on resizing the brass. I was going to clean the dirt off the brass, then deprime and swage everything, then trim if needed. Then I would go and resize the brass.

The press I have is a dillon 550. It seems like it is designed to deprime and resize in the same step. Obviously that would be done before seating any primers or bullets.

You have to resize before you trim.  Brass gets shorter after firing and longer after sizing.

That’s what a few of us are trying to tell you.  You clearly need to do more reading and research before you start loading because you do not have a good understanding of the process.

Not trying to be rude at all, just trying to save you a bunch of wasted time and components.

Buy a real paper reloading book and read it before you do anything else.  Lyman, Lee and a number of others make good books.

<removed> you are not posting in GD. We are trying to help OP.

Not belittle him. dryflash3

Is the ABC's of Reloading still the must-read that it used to be?  That's the first book on reloading I read and it was very informative.  A lot of new reloaders want to watch a 3 minute video then start making ammo.  You're dealing with powerful little bombs that can cause a lot of damage if you skip important steps while building them.  Experienced reloaders might use shortcuts that they've learned from repeated experimentation but rarely do they skip important steps.

I have a 550 but it only gets fed processed .223 brass.

tumble brass clean
spray will Dillon Lube, resize and deprime
Tumble brass second time
Trim in Giraud trimmer
Swage/cut crimps out

I then use the 550 to prime, drop powder, seat and crimp the bullet.