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Link Posted: 10/27/2020 3:47:18 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By shelbysguns:

Out if curiousity why is that not okay?

Someone who got a 1450 fom unit is supposed to be happy with it as its above minimums?

I mean we all want the best nightvision for the cheapest price of course. But just seems contradictory to me.
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Originally Posted By shelbysguns:
Originally Posted By TNVC:


PM me your order number please. Maybe your ok with this, I am not and sonething slipped through the cracks. While we cannot match replacement FOM numbers exactly under warranty, I wanna strive to get closer than this.  

Out if curiousity why is that not okay?

Someone who got a 1450 fom unit is supposed to be happy with it as its above minimums?

I mean we all want the best nightvision for the cheapest price of course. But just seems contradictory to me.


so they're damned if they do, damned if they don't? this is a company taking care of a real customer service issue for someone who is a member of our community and you're attacking them for it? as a customer I'd be upset to drop 1000 FOM from a warranty issue. Knowing what you might get at the price you pay is a whole lot different than having something in hand you paid for malfunction and then having it replaced with a lesser product. It's like getting a really good deal on a 2015 used car with a 10 year warranty and having it shit the bed and having the dealership replace it with a 2005 model. vs getting a decent deal on a used 2005 model.
Link Posted: 10/27/2020 4:29:33 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By GraniteStateMike:


so they're damned if they do, damned if they don't? this is a company taking care of a real customer service issue for someone who is a member of our community and you're attacking them for it? as a customer I'd be upset to drop 1000 FOM from a warranty issue. Knowing what you might get at the price you pay is a whole lot different than having something in hand you paid for malfunction and then having it replaced with a lesser product. It's like getting a really good deal on a 2015 used car with a 10 year warranty and having it shit the bed and having the dealership replace it with a 2005 model. vs getting a decent deal on a used 2005 model.
View Quote


Think he might have just read their response wrong...

They responded exactly how I would want them to as a customer.
Link Posted: 10/27/2020 4:49:23 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/27/2020 4:53:55 PM EST by drone161]
Got my DTNVG today.
I know nothing about the specs.


L  |  R
Luminous:          1785 | 2227
Halo:                   .83  |.83
EBI:                     .2   | .55
Res:                    64   | 64
Fom:                 1760 | 1939.2
SNR:                  27.5 | 30.3

No Spots/Blems Pass/Pass that I can find.
Link Posted: 10/27/2020 6:29:09 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By GraniteStateMike:


so they're damned if they do, damned if they don't? this is a company taking care of a real customer service issue for someone who is a member of our community and you're attacking them for it? as a customer I'd be upset to drop 1000 FOM from a warranty issue. Knowing what you might get at the price you pay is a whole lot different than having something in hand you paid for malfunction and then having it replaced with a lesser product. It's like getting a really good deal on a 2015 used car with a 10 year warranty and having it shit the bed and having the dealership replace it with a 2005 model. vs getting a decent deal on a used 2005 model.
View Quote

Sorry i "attacked" your dad by asking a question.

I get how the customer might feel slighted. But the guy who paid the EXACT same for his 14 and got a minimum spec unit probably feels the same. Does he get a swap out?

Its just a question. Their company they can do what they want. I respect them taking care of their customer. Just curious as the whole xls thing, thats part of the gamble. Sometimes you win and sometimes you dont.
Link Posted: 10/27/2020 6:44:44 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/27/2020 6:49:52 PM EST by twistid1]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By shelbysguns:

Sorry i "attacked" your dad by asking a question.

I get how the customer might feel slighted. But the guy who paid the EXACT same for his 14 and got a minimum spec unit probably feels the same. Does he get a swap out?

Its just a question. Their company they can do what they want. I respect them taking care of their customer. Just curious as the whole xls thing, thats part of the gamble. Sometimes you win and sometimes you dont.
View Quote


Well they are allowed to return it, they aren't forced to keep it.  I think that's a pretty great option.
Link Posted: 10/27/2020 7:09:45 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By shelbysguns:

Out if curiousity why is that not okay?

Someone who got a 1450 fom unit is supposed to be happy with it as its above minimums?

I mean we all want the best nightvision for the cheapest price of course. But just seems contradictory to me.
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Originally Posted By shelbysguns:
Originally Posted By TNVC:


PM me your order number please. Maybe your ok with this, I am not and sonething slipped through the cracks. While we cannot match replacement FOM numbers exactly under warranty, I wanna strive to get closer than this.  

Out if curiousity why is that not okay?

Someone who got a 1450 fom unit is supposed to be happy with it as its above minimums?

I mean we all want the best nightvision for the cheapest price of course. But just seems contradictory to me.


MY personal opinion is that there is a difference between getting a unit with lesser specs from the onset and getting one after the better unit you had was replaced. The buyer won the "spec lottery" so to speak and shouldn't have to relinquish his "winnings". A defective unit should be replaced with an equal or better unit.
Link Posted: 10/27/2020 7:15:04 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By M4Madness:


MY personal opinion is that there is a difference between getting a unit with lesser specs from the onset and getting one after the better unit you had was replaced. The buyer won the "spec lottery" so to speak and shouldn't have to relinquish his "winnings". A defective unit should be replaced with an equal or better unit.
View Quote

Thats fair.

Would suck if you had to wait for your replacement due to that.
Link Posted: 10/27/2020 7:44:16 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By shelbysguns:

Would suck if you had to wait for your replacement due to that.
View Quote


I agree.

My PVS-14 toured about every western state on its journey to me, and to make matters worse, it said "out for delivery" for two days before arriving. To say I was sweating it would be an understatement. I wasn't worried about it from a financial standpoint, but rather if it would be replaced with an equal or better unit and how long would it take. LOL!
Link Posted: 10/29/2020 1:28:11 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By sheepdog697:
My response was anything but serious...
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Dangit. I've been all over their 2 sites looking for the last 30 mins.
Link Posted: 10/29/2020 10:12:57 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/29/2020 10:13:22 AM EST by TNVC]
Link Posted: 10/29/2020 10:19:42 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/31/2020 12:36:25 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/31/2020 12:37:33 AM EST by TheSixShooter]
Luminous: 2166
Radiant: 242
Halo: .90
EBI: .3
2x10-6: 66745
Resolution: 72
FOM: 1879.2
Signal to noise: 26.1

Zone 1 blem, but its hardly noticeable while using it outside. ETA: Pic with full moon tonight
Attachment Attached File
Link Posted: 10/31/2020 1:07:02 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/31/2020 10:40:45 PM EST
Link Posted: 11/1/2020 12:27:18 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By VA-gunnut:
I finally got around to taking some pictures. This was under a full moon, so there was no shortage of light.

I'm not sure why the left tube looked greener in the pictures, but there is no discernible difference between the tubes when looking through the goggles.

Left Tube
https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/13067/20201031_233201-1663467.jpg

Right Tube
https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/13067/20201031_233146-1663468.jpg

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/13067/20201031_233126-1663469.jpg
https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/13067/20201031_233058-1663470.jpg
View Quote

The difference in color is due to an unlocked white balance. Tons of factors can affect it. If i had to guess the gain is slightly different and the camera perceived that difference in brilliance as a different color.
Link Posted: 11/2/2020 6:07:18 PM EST
Link Posted: 11/2/2020 6:41:35 PM EST
Link Posted: 11/2/2020 6:45:28 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/2/2020 6:45:49 PM EST by shelbysguns]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By TNVC:

Yea, so many variables taking through the tube photos and video. They never look the same nor truly represent the real image.
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Yep. I try to eliminate as many as possible, especially for tube to tube comparisons.

But nothing matches the range of the mk1 eyeball
Link Posted: 11/2/2020 8:59:00 PM EST
You should try filming through the iPhone 12 Pro. 4k/60 in HDR is incredible, best NVG footage I’ve ever gotten. The HDR really is a game changer for it.
Link Posted: 11/5/2020 3:42:29 PM EST
Just received my NGI/RNVG.  Ordered 7/10. Overall very happy with the unit, very small zone 2 blem in the R tube that I'm not at all concerned about...I'll try to get some pics later tonight.  Specs are as follows:

L  |  R
Luminous:          2094 | 1973
Halo:                   .90  |.95
EBI:                     .75   | .80
Res:                    72   | 72
Fom:                 2044 | 1951
SNR:                  28.4 | 27.1
Link Posted: 11/6/2020 1:04:50 PM EST
Link Posted: 11/9/2020 10:46:03 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By CodyMitchell:
Just received my NGI/RNVG.  Ordered 7/10. Overall very happy with the unit, very small zone 2 blem in the R tube that I'm not at all concerned about...I'll try to get some pics later tonight.  Specs are as follows:

L  |  R
Luminous:          2094 | 1973
Halo:                   .90  |.95
EBI:                     .75   | .80
Res:                    72   | 72
Fom:                 2044 | 1951
SNR:                  28.4 | 27.1
View Quote



Nice!!

Getting closer!! 7/14 for me
Link Posted: 11/10/2020 10:15:38 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/10/2020 10:17:48 PM EST by johnson8228]
Received my new PVS-14 and it surpassed all of my expectations.

Lum: 2227
Halo: .84
EBI: 1.87
Res: 76
FOM: 2842
S/N: 37.4

I'm sure it has been said before but their customer service and products are top notch. TNVC (in particular Vic and Jacob) addressed all of my concerns and I cannot thank them enough. Great communication and fast turn around time. They went above and beyond with a spectacular unit and amazing specs that is well above par compared to my original one. If you are having any doubts about ordering, don't. Thanks again gents!
Link Posted: 11/12/2020 10:04:46 AM EST
Link Posted: 11/12/2020 10:12:50 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/12/2020 10:19:24 AM EST by TNVC]
Link Posted: 11/13/2020 6:44:40 PM EST
Well......................FedEx brought me a present.

Lum - 1744
Halo - .97
EBI - .69
2x10-6 - 68,517
Res - 64
FOM - 1612
S/N - 25.2

Appears clear of any obvious spots. Only viewed in a long (25') dark closet so far though...........pretty crisp image with a WML G2 IR for illumination.

We shall see....................

Crazy tech - though I feel like I brought the THIK chick to the dance for some reason...............

Link Posted: 11/13/2020 7:33:12 PM EST
Ooooooooooo


Got my shipping info today.
Link Posted: 11/13/2020 11:01:11 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Silverbulletz06:
Ooooooooooo


Got my shipping info today.
View Quote



Same! Cant wait!
Link Posted: 11/13/2020 11:17:53 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/13/2020 11:20:50 PM EST by TNVC]
Link Posted: 11/14/2020 12:45:40 PM EST
I’m late to the party but see both the rnvg and dtnvg offerings are sold out on the NGI website. Has anyone heard when more units are expected to be available or ordering will open back up?
Link Posted: 11/15/2020 4:51:55 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By GSDAK47:
I’m late to the party but see both the rnvg and dtnvg offerings are sold out on the NGI website. Has anyone heard when more units are expected to be available or ordering will open back up?
View Quote

If I read this Industry forum post correctly, the answer is soon. Ish.
https://www.ar15.com/forums/Industry/NGI-and-TNVC-4th-of-July-Sale-New-NGI-XLS-Gen-3-WP-NVGs-at-the-Lowest-Prices-Ever-/209-296274/#i3811557
Link Posted: 11/15/2020 4:00:52 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/15/2020 4:02:10 PM EST by boltcatch]
I'm happy with my sample.  No blems and the specs are not amazing, but definitely higher than my older Omni VIII tubes across the board.  The difference is noticeable when it's really dark.

I bet just about all of these will probably have better performance than tubes costing hundreds more bought 4-5+ years ago.   Vs. current production tubes in that same $3100+ range, you're of course rolling the dice on blems a little bit, but we're at the point where I don't think most people are going to care about that.
Link Posted: 11/15/2020 5:50:03 PM EST
As I’ve been reading through the pages of this post I think these are a huge value to people newer to NV and I’m thrilled to be able to drop an order when they open ordering back up. While some of the specs may not be stellar, getting into a high quality housing with very functional tubes and dealer support is a big deal for me personally.
Link Posted: 11/17/2020 10:44:39 AM EST
Just found this thread.

Any idea when they’ll open up for more orders? I’ve been refreshing the page 5 times a day for a month or two.
Link Posted: 11/17/2020 4:24:37 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/17/2020 6:18:39 PM EST by Silverbulletz06]
GOT MY TUBE! (ordered on 7/14 iirc in case anyone is interested)


Luminous 2420
Radiant 272
Halo max 0.7
EBI 0.95
Resolution 72
FOM 2304
SNR 32

I have no idea how good those specs are but from comparisons they look great. Waiting patiently for nightfall.

Looks like ZERO blems!

You can see the IR output from the Ring spotlight.

Attachment Attached File
Attachment Attached File
Link Posted: 11/17/2020 7:04:13 PM EST
Link Posted: 11/18/2020 10:48:38 AM EST
Ordered the NGI/RNVG on July 11 and received them Nov. 11.

I know nothing - first ever night vision - just contributing my data and first observations for what they might be worth to others on here.

Data Records:

Luminous       2237  /  2455

Radiant          252  /  270

Halo              .94  /  1.00

EBI                .94  /  1.01

Resolution        72  /  72

SNR                24.6  /  24.2

Blems:  Each tube has 1 very small black dot - smaller than a pin head - in zone 3 of each tube; and one tube has a tiny jagged mark on the very edge.   If I focus as close as possible (about 6") to a white wall with the onboard IR light on, I can barely see some chicken wire in one tube and some very faint diagonal streaks in the other tube; both tubes generally have a very fine misty or dusty look - not "peppering" and not foggy  - it is a like a light amount of dust- but I can only see this stuff while focusing up close on a wall - however none of the above are noticeable while walking around outside, looking at the stars, etc.


My first few hours of use have all been on cool and clear, starlit nights with no moon - rural areas both in the clear and in some fairly thick woods - whole time wearing glasses with progressive lenses, and I have had great results.

Still waiting for a cloudy night, but so far the only places I have needed to use the IR was inside the darkest rooms of the house.  

My specs are on the lower end of most of the specs posted in this thread, but after watching TNVC Sam's recent short videos on interpreting tube data (why I didn't bother to list my FOM !!) ; and reading this thread, and reading this 2011 archived thread by cj7hawk : https://www.ar15.com/forums/armory/Understanding_basic_tube_parameters_and_their_significance_/18-348609/  
I think I did ok.

Bottom line is that with no prior experience with NV, and no point of reference, my impression is they are awesome.





 
Link Posted: 11/18/2020 12:35:33 PM EST
Link Posted: 11/18/2020 12:52:21 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By TNVC_Augee:
Reading through this thread I have to say that I'm greatly encouraged by the number of people saying that this is their first night vision device--obviously we have had many repeat customers and more experienced customers who have recognized the value of the NGI XLS systems, and we are very grateful for them, however, among the goals of the XLS line was to lower the barrier for entry for first time buyers and newcomers to the hobby, by offering a high quality Gen. 3 WP system with reasonable performance at a reasonable price.

Obviously some have won the "spec lottery," and certainly the exact performance of each individual tube and unit is somewhat variable, however when faced with the choice of "hand-selecting" higher performing tubes and charging more or offering the tubes at exactly the same terms as that we receive them under (flat price, variable performance, reasonable minimums) without hand-select options which add to overhead, we made a conscious decision to go in the direction that offered the most people the best opportunity to get into the night vision game (or the dual tube game).

While we obviously could not have projected or planned for the events of 2020 ahead of time, which has had a significant effect on us, we've nevertheless been floored by the response to these systems and are thankful for each and every customer who has made this program a success, and while I still cannot give an exact estimate on exactly when it will be--we have components on-hand, and our Build Team is working furiously to get these out to customers without sacrificing our build quality or QA/QC (and each backed by our Lifetime Limited Warranty), we are very excited to be able to resume accepting new orders for NGI XLS units in the near future when we are able to once again give accurate lead times for these systems.

Thanks again!
~Augee
View Quote


Outstanding. Can’t wait.

Will they hit NGI or TNVC site first or simultaneously?
Link Posted: 11/18/2020 1:18:51 PM EST
Link Posted: 11/23/2020 9:28:02 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/23/2020 9:28:36 PM EST by notso]
Got mine!

First, Specs:

Lum: 2160
Rad: 231
Halo: 0.93
EBI: 0.34
Resolution: 64
SNR: 26.9

Only blem I can see is a fair sized (no idea how to measure) [ETA- zone 2] spot at about 7 oclock. Not too eyecatching, seems fine to me.

Im quite happy!

This is my first NV of any kind, so I didnt know what to expect. I have been reading up to make sure I dont mess the thing up.

So first thing was to turn off all the lights in the house and walk around. Pretty cool!

Then I looked out the window and I now understand why everyone said to get NV.  With the nice moon, it looks AMAZING.

Cant wait to get it out in the true dark and look around.

Thanks for the great value NV TNVC. I wouldnt have made the jump now if this hadnt been a thing.

Off to find a helmet and a laser now.

Link Posted: 11/24/2020 2:33:29 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By notso:
Got mine!

First, Specs:

Lum: 2160
Rad: 231
Halo: 0.93
EBI: 0.34
Resolution: 64
SNR: 26.9

Only blem I can see is a fair sized (no idea how to measure) [ETA- zone 2] spot at about 7 oclock. Not too eyecatching, seems fine to me.

Im quite happy!

This is my first NV of any kind, so I didnt know what to expect. I have been reading up to make sure I dont mess the thing up.

So first thing was to turn off all the lights in the house and walk around. Pretty cool!

Then I looked out the window and I now understand why everyone said to get NV.  With the nice moon, it looks AMAZING.

Cant wait to get it out in the true dark and look around.

Thanks for the great value NV TNVC. I wouldnt have made the jump now if this hadnt been a thing.

Off to find a helmet and a laser now.

View Quote

Wait until you look at the stars.
Link Posted: 11/24/2020 2:46:31 PM EST
Luminous:          2370
Halo:                   .72
EBI:                     1.19
Res:                    64
Fom:                 2188.8
SNR:                  34.2

One black spot that annoys me, but other wise quite nice for the price.

-Prep
Link Posted: 11/24/2020 11:02:10 PM EST
Got mine in on 11/13. This is my first time buying nightvision and I have been amazed at what this tube can do so far.

Luminous: 2593
Radiant: 305
Halo: 0.68
EBI: 1.21
2x10-6 fc (K) : 68631
Resolution: 81
Signal to Noise: 35.8
FOM: 2889.8
Link Posted: 11/24/2020 11:27:41 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Denton_Van_Zan:
Got mine in on 11/13. This is my first time buying nightvision and I have been amazed at what this tube can do so far.

Luminous: 2593
Radiant: 305
Halo: 0.68
EBI: 1.21
2x10-6 fc (K) : 68631
Resolution: 81
Signal to Noise: 35.8
FOM: 2889.8
View Quote


Those are great specs. I’d love 35 SNR tubes.
Link Posted: 11/25/2020 12:24:52 PM EST
Link Posted: 11/25/2020 3:41:22 PM EST
Link Posted: 11/26/2020 1:32:57 AM EST
Link Posted: 11/27/2020 12:46:06 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/27/2020 1:44:18 PM EST by Mitu]
Mine came in. I'm new to NV and don't really know what these numbers mean (left tube/right tube):

Luminous: 1448/1674
Radiant: 170/183
Halo max: .99/.83
Burn in EBI phot max: .35/.62
2x10-6 max: 69379/67125
Center resolution: 64/64
FOM: 1856/1824
Signal to noise: 29/28.5

edit: can't see any blems, but the picture is decently "grainy"
Link Posted: 11/27/2020 6:02:38 PM EST
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