New ffl application timeline

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - New ffl application timeline

Posted: 12/7/2021 4:18:32 PM EDT

I didn't see a general timeline thread to post in, so this is for those of you who are going through or thinking about submitting.

All completed type 01 paperwork mailed October 25th.

ATF received and signed for on Oct. 28th.

Funds taken out of account on Nov. 13th.

Atf investigator called today(Dec 7th) and scheduled an interview for this Friday(Dec. 10th) at 0900.

Posted: 12/7/2021 4:43:21 PM EDT

[#1]

Mine took just over a month.

Posted: 12/8/2021 10:26:59 AM EDT

[#2]

I find it funny that you could apply for an FFL, SOT, and form 3 silencers to your new business faster than a form 4.

Posted: 12/8/2021 2:10:27 PM EDT

[#3]

In-person interview?

Posted: 12/8/2021 4:19:37 PM EDT

[#4]

Quote History

Quoted:
In-person interview?

View Quote

Yes

She said to block off a 2 hr timeframe to conduct the "interview".

Posted: 12/8/2021 8:57:18 PM EDT

[#5]

Yes. My in person interview took less than an hour.

Posted: 12/10/2021 12:12:10 PM EDT

[#6]

Quote History

Quoted:

Yes

She said to block off a 2 hr timeframe to conduct the "interview".

View Quote

Thats about right. They've got a large checklist of laws they have to check off as part of your interview. Basically a CYA of large list of topics that you'll likely know about if you've been buying guns/silencers for a few years.

Posted: 12/10/2021 12:29:28 PM EDT

[#7]

I got a call this am that she had to move the interview to 1130 monday.

Posted: 12/13/2021 3:39:53 PM EDT

[#8]

Painless.
A good experience, she was really nice and very thorough.
Took about an hour and a half.

Switched from 01 to 07.

A lot of information

She did ask a whole sheet of questions on the amount of transfers I think I will do, gun sales, gunsmithing, custom builds, gun shows, etc.

She also had this: https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2021/06/23/fact-sheet-biden-harris-administration-announces-comprehensive-strategy-to-prevent-and-respond-to-gun-crime-and-ensure-public-safety/

She said they will immediately revoke licenses if the background check info isn't fill out as soon as you get a decision. No ifs, ands or buts.

She said they used to have leeway and could give recommendations on the best course of action, now they must due to the new executive orders listed in the link.

Overall, it was a good meeting and experience. Said I should have my license before the first of the year.

Posted: 12/13/2021 6:30:00 PM EDT

[#9]

Quote History

Quoted:

She also had this: https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2021/06/23/fact-sheet-biden-harris-administration-announces-comprehensive-strategy-to-prevent-and-respond-to-gun-crime-and-ensure-public-safety/

She said they will immediately revoke licenses if the background check info isn't fill out as soon as you get a decision. No ifs, ands or buts.

View Quote

Really how they gonna know? They gonna install video cameras and watch every 4473 filled out all over the USA?

Oh look, Tommy took 60 second to fill in the NIC transaction number, his FFL is revoked immediately even though that is in violation of §478.73 Notice of revocation, suspension, or imposition of civil fine.

Jeez

Posted: 12/13/2021 7:40:13 PM EDT

[#10]

Quote History

Quoted:

Really how they gonna know? They gonna install video cameras and watch every 4473 filled out all over the USA?

Oh look, Tommy took 60 second to fill in the NIC transaction number, his FFL is revoked immediately even though that is in violation of §478.73 Notice of revocation, suspension, or imposition of civil fine.

Jeez

View Quote

I know, thought the same thing. Just relaying what she stated.

Posted: 12/13/2021 7:53:49 PM EDT

[#11]

When she asked how many firearms a year I was planning on manufacturing, I stated around 20 or so.

She then said I needed to register with DDTC and ITARS.

I thought I only needed to register for those if I was making over 40 a year or some number. She didn't know, said it was another agency that handled that.

I'm going to call them both, but does anyone have any insite on that number?

Posted: 12/13/2021 7:55:33 PM EDT

[#12]

Quote History

Quoted:
When she asked how many firearms a year I was planning on manufacturing, I stated around 20 or so.

She then said I needed to register with DDTC and ITARS.

I thought I only needed to register for those if I was making over 40 a year or some number. She didn't know, said it was another agency that handled that.

I'm going to call them both, but does anyone have any insite on that number?

View Quote

There is no specific number. Most non-NFA firearms do not require registration. Get used to being given incorrect info.

Posted: 12/14/2021 12:29:23 AM EDT

[#13]

Quote History

Quoted:

There is no specific number. Most non-NFA firearms do not require registration. Get used to being given incorrect info.

View Quote

I definitely have a ton to learn and sift through.

Posted: 12/14/2021 9:07:23 PM EDT

[#14]

Sounds like you are getting confused about paying FAET on guns you manufacture. Keep it to 50 or less per year, FAET is not due on any. Make 51 and FAET is due on all.

https://www.ttb.gov/firearms/manufacturers

ITAR registration is required if you manufacture (using the DoS not the ATF definition) a firearm on the USML.

Do not ask your ATF IOI about ITAR, it's a DoS thing not a DoJ thing.

Posted: 12/14/2021 9:20:42 PM EDT

[#15]

Quote History

Quoted:
Sounds like you are getting confused about paying FAET on guns you manufacture. Keep it to 50 or less per year, FAET is not due on any. Make 51 and FAET is due on all.

https://www.ttb.gov/firearms/manufacturers

ITAR registration is required if you manufacture (using the DoS not the ATF definition) a firearm on the USML.

Do not ask your ATF IOI about ITAR, it's a DoS thing not a DoJ thing.

View Quote

@Bubbles
That's what I thought I read about ITAR and the USML. So thank you on that.

The reason why ITAR and DDTC came up was because she said during inspections that I would need some documentation from DDTC as well as ITAR that said I was exempt or I needed to pay the fees. She was pretty adamant about that. Does that sound right?

Posted: 12/14/2021 9:32:02 PM EDT

[#16]

Quote History

Quoted:
The reason why ITAR and DDTC came up was because she said during inspections that I would need some documentation from DDTC as well as ITAR that said I was exempt or I needed to pay the fees. She was pretty adamant about that. Does that sound right?

View Quote

No idea. I've had three IOI's since 2007 and not one has mentioned ITAR.

Posted: 12/14/2021 9:55:28 PM EDT

[#17]

Quote History

Quoted:

No idea. I've had three IOI's since 2007 and not one has mentioned ITAR.

View Quote

Ok, thank you.

Is that as an 07?

I haven't had a chance to call them, and it's just conflicting info online.

I'll update when I find out. Thanks for the time and info gents

Posted: 12/15/2021 12:10:17 PM EDT

[#18]

Quote History

Quoted:

@Bubbles
That's what I thought I read about ITAR and the USML. So thank you on that.

The reason why ITAR and DDTC came up was because she said during inspections that I would need some documentation from DDTC as well as ITAR that said I was exempt or I needed to pay the fees. She was pretty adamant about that. Does that sound right?

View Quote

You shouldn't have PROVE your exempt, IMO. They would need to prove you are required to register.

But ITAR should only apply if you are MFRing MGs or silencers, according to the attorney I spoke with.

Posted: 12/15/2021 12:31:54 PM EDT

[#19]

Well, I just got off the phone with the "response team" for DDTC.

I say response team because the representative refused to give me her name for my notes

She asked:

1. Are you exporting anything

2. Traveling with any firearms or ammunition

3. What specific parts am I manufacturing

4. What specific parts am I assembling

5. Am I in business for myself or a company

Then she gave me a case # and said she would give the info to the "registration" folks and I should hear something within 24hrs.
If I don't, call back lol

I was polite the entire time, she was rude and short.

She really acted like I should know what I needed.

The jist of the phone call:

I said I was told to contact DDTC to see if I needed to register and pay any fees.

Her: What are you asking sir?

Me:
I was told to contact DDTC to see if I needed to register and pay any fees.

Her: is that your question?

Me: do I need to pay fees?

Her: commenced to ask me the above questions.

Me: answered questions

Me: can I get your name again for my notes

Her: I didn't give you my name, this is the response team sir.

Me: can I get your name?

Her: this is the response team sir

Me: thanks

Ah, the Government. Lol

Posted: 12/16/2021 10:56:34 AM EDT

[#20]

Here's what DDTC said:

DECCS - Notification
Greetings,

The agent assigned to your DDTC DECCS Case CS00###### has sent the following Proposed Solution:

Greetings,
Thanks for contacting us! Effective March 9, 2020, many non-automatic and semi-automatic firearms, their parts/components, and their ammunition transitioned from Department of State jurisdiction to Department of Commerce jurisdiction. The firearms have transferred to the Department of Commerce, Please contact the Commerce Department, Bureau of Industry and Security at [email protected] or 202-482-4811 .

Posted: 12/16/2021 10:58:17 AM EDT

[#21]

Quote History

Quoted:
Here's what DDTC said:

DECCS - Notification
Greetings,

The agent assigned to your DDTC DECCS Case CS00###### has sent the following Proposed Solution:

Greetings,
Thanks for contacting us! Effective March 9, 2020, many non-automatic and semi-automatic firearms, their parts/components, and their ammunition transitioned from Department of State jurisdiction to Department of Commerce jurisdiction. The firearms have transferred to the Department of Commerce, Please contact the Commerce Department, Bureau of Industry and Security at [email protected] or 202-482-4811 .

View Quote

Exactly what I and Bubbles told you.

We have covered this a lot. Search "ITAR" in the armory archives.

Posted: 12/16/2021 11:40:43 AM EDT

[#22]

Quote History

Quoted:

Exactly what I and Bubbles told you.

We have covered this a lot. Search "ITAR" in the armory archives.

View Quote

Whole new adventure for me, I've been reading a lot.
I just don't want to mess it up, and do something stupid or not do something.
I'm sure I'll figure it all out in time.

Thanks for the help gents

Posted: 12/16/2021 11:43:22 AM EDT

[#23]

Quote History

Quoted:

Whole new adventure for me, I've been reading a lot.
I just don't want to mess it up, and do something stupid or not do something.
I'm sure I'll figure it all out in time.

Thanks for the help gents

View Quote

it is hard because there is so much wrong info out there, always ask here when in doubt.

Posted: 12/20/2021 5:14:39 PM EDT

[#24]

Your IOI should have given you a few documents.. well at least mine did. Any case look up the United State Department of State memo, July 22, 2016: Applicability of the ITAR Registration Requirement to Firearm manufacturers and Gunsmiths.

ATF and Directorate of Defense Trade Control have different definitions of what a manufacturer is. You must look at DDTC to see if you even need to registered. Are you occasionally assembling firearms parts and kits that require cutting/drilling/machining? If yes then you have to pay ITAR. Are you just putting AR15 uppers and lowers together? No you don't need to register.

DDTC has found that the following instances do not require registration.

a) Occasional assembly of firearm parts and kits that do not require cutting, drilling, or machining;

b) Firearm repairs involving one-for-one drop-in replacement parts that do not require any cutting, drilling, or machining for installation;

c) Repairs involving replacement parts that do not improve the accuracy, caliber, or other aspects of firearm operation;

d) Hydrographic paint or Cerakote application or bluing treatments for a firearm;

e) Attachment of accessories to a completed firearm without drilling, cutting, or machining—such as attaching a scope, sling, or light to existing mounts or hooks, or attaching a flash suppressor, sound suppressor, muzzle brake, or similar item to a pre- threaded muzzle;

f) Cosmetic additions and alterations (including engraving) that do not improve the accuracy, caliber, or other aspects of firearm operation beyond its original capabilities;

g) Machining new dovetails or drilling and tapping new holes for the installation of sights which do not improve the accuracy or operation of the firearm beyond its original capabilities; and

h) Manual loading or reloading of ammunition of .50 caliber or smaller.

Hope that's concrete enough for you guys.

Oh as for when you'll get your license.. My IOI had told me 6 weeks later after the visit. I don't call it an inspection since really they were there to inform you of the rules for your knowledge, and not inspecting the facility.

Posted: 1/8/2022 12:27:37 AM EDT

[#25]

I submitted my application on November 1st and they charged my card on November 3rd.

I got two separate notifications from ATF burglary notifications on the 24th and 27th both calls and emails. It’s been complete radio silence since then.

Even counting holidays and being generous with the time, I’m rapidly approaching 60 days. Do I have any options? Or is it basically a suck it up and wait situation?

Posted: 1/8/2022 12:41:37 AM EDT

[#26]

Just have to wait. It takes a few months before the IOI meeting and after that, anothe 6 weeks to receive the license.

Posted: 1/10/2022 1:47:02 PM EDT

[#27]

Ya, I submitted mine right after Christmas and they withdrew funds less than a week later.

Funny story though, they entered the wrong expiration date for my card and I got a notice...left them a message saying just that and two days later it was resubmitted under the right expiration...

Patiently just waiting now to be called or whatever they do next...

Posted: 1/10/2022 1:52:20 PM EDT

[#28]

ATF wants their money. Ive never seen them nor cash a check over 2 weeks from date of mailing.

Posted: 1/10/2022 2:12:03 PM EDT

[#29]

Quote History

Quoted:
Ya, I submitted mine right after Christmas and they withdrew funds less than a week later.

Funny story though, they entered the wrong expiration date for my card and I got a notice...left them a message saying just that and two days later it was resubmitted under the right expiration...

Patiently just waiting now to be called or whatever they do next...

View Quote

Next they will call and ask for zoning approval and schedule an "interview" next.

It's not an interview per say though.
They will:
1. verify your application info is correct.

2. make sure all the Zoning and buisness stuff is squared away where your buisness is going to be located.

3. ask you some questions about what you want to do with your ffl and how you plan on making money with it.

4. then finally they will go through their spiel about paperwork and sign-off sheets.

5. You will sign that they talked over and explained everything on the sign off sheet.

6. You will receive a packet in the mail with your license, forms, pamphlets and handouts 2-3 weeks later.

That's how mine went anyways.

Posted: 1/10/2022 2:29:02 PM EDT

[#30]

Quote History

Quoted:

Next they will call and ask for zoning approval and schedule an "interview" next.

It's not an interview per say though.
They will:
1. verify your application info is correct.

2. make sure all the Zoning and buisness stuff is squared away where your buisness is going to be located.

3. ask you some questions about what you want to do with your ffl and how you plan on making money with it.

4. then finally they will go through their spiel about paperwork and sign-off sheets.

5. You will sign that they talked over and explained everything on the sign off sheet.

6. You will receive a packet in the mail with your license, forms, pamphlets and handouts 2-3 weeks later.

That's how mine went anyways.

View Quote

That's pretty much how it goes. Interview is the wrong word for the whole thing since it really isn't an interview. To add on, they talk about how to fill out the forms, etc. Takes maybe 3 hours depending what is covered.

5-6 weeks is the time line from interview to paperwork.

Posted: 1/10/2022 5:48:38 PM EDT

[#31]

Good info here from the OP and others. Just saying thanks so I can follow this thread. I’m in MI too and considering getting my FFL.

Posted: 1/11/2022 6:27:46 AM EDT

[#32]

Quote History

Quoted:

Next they will call and ask for zoning approval and schedule an "interview" next.

It's not an interview per say though.
They will:
1. verify your application info is correct.

2. make sure all the Zoning and buisness stuff is squared away where your buisness is going to be located.

3. ask you some questions about what you want to do with your ffl and how you plan on making money with it.

4. then finally they will go through their spiel about paperwork and sign-off sheets.

5. You will sign that they talked over and explained everything on the sign off sheet.

6. You will receive a packet in the mail with your license, forms, pamphlets and handouts 2-3 weeks later.

That's how mine went anyways.

View Quote

Posted: 3/14/2022 9:53:02 AM EDT

[#33]

Quote History

Quoted:

Next they will call and ask for zoning approval and schedule an "interview" next.

It's not an interview per say though.
They will:
1. verify your application info is correct.

2. make sure all the Zoning and buisness stuff is squared away where your buisness is going to be located.

3. ask you some questions about what you want to do with your ffl and how you plan on making money with it.

4. then finally they will go through their spiel about paperwork and sign-off sheets.

5. You will sign that they talked over and explained everything on the sign off sheet.

6. You will receive a packet in the mail with your license, forms, pamphlets and handouts 2-3 weeks later.

That's how mine went anyways.

View Quote

Yep, did all that..."interview" was close to 2 hours long.

Still waiting on the completion...will probably call the investigator this week to ask what's up...then I can get to work!

Posted: 3/14/2022 11:59:20 AM EDT

[#34]

Quote History

Quoted:

Yep, did all that..."interview" was close to 2 hours long.

Still waiting on the completion...will probably call the investigator this week to ask what's up...then I can get to work!

View Quote

Nice, congrats.
What license did you decide to apply for?