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Posted: 8/12/2018 11:04:46 PM EDT
I don't have the cheddar for a Gen 3 device yet so I got an Armasight Spark Core Gen 1 NVG monocular. The primary purpose for it will be strictly home defense. So I don't need to see out to 100 yards or anything. Maybe 50 yards at the very most. The monocular will be helmet mounted and now I'm seeking IR illumination advice. I want to get an IR laser and have been mulling over what would be best for my situation. It's a little difficult finding images/videos to compare these different options and so maybe I'd ask you guys about real world experience.

So these seem to be my options for a cost effective setup:

1. DBAL-i2 (my main concern is how adequate the IR illumination is)
2. Otal-C with helmet mounted IR light (would need recommendations for something that will serve well inside the house and would not be overpowering).
3. Otal-C with rifle mounted IR light  (would need recommendations for something that will serve well inside the house and would not be overpowering) slaved together (TAPS pro?)

I'm kind of leaning towards the helmet mounted setup as I'll never use the monocular without the helmet, and that way Im also not limited to just one of my guns for illumination. Or I guess I can have both gun and helmet mounted illumination
Link Posted: 8/13/2018 12:27:58 AM EDT
[#1]
Just an FYI gen III not only lets you id object at a futher distance but also lets you see in darker environments without supplemental IR illumination. Depending on your budget a Steiner 9007 IR/IR or a D2 is probably the best bang for your buck. You basically want to be able to turn in your IR laser and illuminator at the same time so either will work. The difference is the D2 has an illumination range of 500+ yards and the 9007 about 75. Indoors the 9007 will work but outdoors it's almost useless.
Link Posted: 8/13/2018 12:34:16 AM EDT
[#2]
If it were me I'd ditch the idea of using NV for home defense, especially gen 1. In a home defense situation do you think you're going to have time to grab all of this and when you do your fov and situational awareness is limited looking through a tube.

Just get a good flashlight for a hd setup.
Link Posted: 8/18/2018 1:00:14 AM EDT
[#3]
Buffalo Bob slipped out and almost got Clarice in less then a few seconds.
Link Posted: 8/18/2018 4:09:56 PM EDT
[#4]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
If it were me I'd ditch the idea of using NV for home defense, especially gen 1. In a home defense situation do you think you're going to have time to grab all of this and when you do your fov and situational awareness is limited looking through a tube.

Just get a good flashlight for a hd setup.
View Quote
This.
Link Posted: 8/18/2018 5:47:26 PM EDT
[#5]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
If it were me I'd ditch the idea of using NV for home defense, especially gen 1. In a home defense situation do you think you're going to have time to grab all of this and when you do your fov and situational awareness is limited looking through a tube.

Just get a good flashlight for a hd setup.
View Quote
This 1000x over.

Don’t forget that to be proficient with night vision takes tons of hours training under a tube. Once you have those hours you quickly realize that  barring very very very rare circumstances would it be beneficial to clear houses under night vision. Even then there’s a huge disadvantage to using s monocular or binocular system.

.... now those pano goggles.....
Link Posted: 8/18/2018 6:10:06 PM EDT
[#6]
When you talk about a range of 50-100 yards, it makes me think you are talking about home defense more like perimeter defense. Like keeping the zombie hordes away.
If you've got a house where INDOOR 50-100 yard shots are possible then you should be able to afford Gen 3.

I'd go Otal-C with an IR light on the rifle as well as one on the helmet.

BUT, I think you'd be better served using your Spark with helmet light STRICTLY for observation. If you decide you need to open up, it's time to go white-light.

I have some hours with my PVS-14, and as awesome as those are, FIGHTING under them would be harder than fighting with a white light.
Link Posted: 8/18/2018 8:14:55 PM EDT
[#7]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
If it were me I'd ditch the idea of using NV for home defense, especially gen 1. In a home defense situation do you think you're going to have time to grab all of this and when you do your fov and situational awareness is limited looking through a tube.

Just get a good flashlight for a hd setup.
View Quote
I'll just repeat and say "this" aswell.

This is going off-topic in that it's not technical NV discussion anymore, but if the point would be not revealing your position in a home defense situation and where the range is still rather far like that mentioned 50-100 meters, I'd say roof mounted white flood lights would do the job much better than a Gen1 NV. You'd actually make it harder for anyone to spot you moving due them losing the ability to see you in the shadows compared to bright lights filling up everything else. Even if the house was surrounded with IR light you are going to struggle. From that range it's just a short few tens of seconds away from the perp having moved from 50-100m to close range and especially then you would be in trouble. Compared to white, IR lights may not scare someone away. It probably wouldn't let them know you have spotted them, but that is a small advantage given the narrow & distorting FOV of Gen1. You will scan a large area much faster by seeing properly.

With Gen1 you will most probably need illumination and if it's coming from your direction the red glow can give away your position. In theory you could just illuminate for a shot, but in practice that's not going to happen with Gen1 as you can't see without that illumination in the first place.

Edit: one more point regarding HD and IR illumination. You can't properly look through windows without causing reflections & blooming the view to almost zero.
Link Posted: 8/18/2018 8:55:57 PM EDT
[#8]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
If it were me I'd ditch the idea of using NV for home defense, especially gen 1. In a home defense situation do you think you're going to have time to grab all of this and when you do your fov and situational awareness is limited looking through a tube.

Just get a good flashlight for a hd setup.
View Quote
I don't operate but this is solid and practical advice. The couples times I've had to react quickly to bumps in the night I only had time to grab the nightstand pistol, hit the light and rapidly assess
Link Posted: 8/19/2018 12:18:24 AM EDT
[#9]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I don't operate but this is solid and practical advice. The couples times I've had to react quickly to bumps in the night I only had time to grab the nightstand pistol, hit the light and rapidly assess
View Quote
No disrespect, but you may want to increase your layers of defence and or early warning protocols.
Link Posted: 8/20/2018 1:46:23 PM EDT
[#10]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
If it were me I'd ditch the idea of using NV for home defense, especially gen 1. In a home defense situation do you think you're going to have time to grab all of this and when you do your fov and situational awareness is limited looking through a tube.

Just get a good flashlight for a hd setup.
View Quote
This...
Link Posted: 8/22/2018 2:56:47 PM EDT
[#11]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

This 1000x over.

Don’t forget that to be proficient with night vision takes tons of hours training under a tube. Once you have those hours you quickly realize that  barring very very very rare circumstances would it be beneficial to clear houses under night vision. Even then there’s a huge disadvantage to using s monocular or binocular system.

.... now those pano goggles.....
View Quote
YUP!

I actually made this thread before even before my Spark came in, and after using it for a bit (along with a DBAL-I2 single spectrum from DSG's sale), all of your guys' points were spot on. With that said, I was actually pretty impressed with how much I could see with the Spark and it's built in illuminator and don't regret the purchase one bit and I'm really curious to see how Gen 3 NV blows it away. However using NVG inside the house is pretty much out of the question and I will be sticking with my white lights.  I'll save the spark for dicking around at night shoots, and for the zombie apocalypse if I can't amazon prime some gen 3's in time
Link Posted: 8/23/2018 2:20:24 AM EDT
[#12]
for outside use, you could get one of the t20 ir flashlights with an osram led for additional illumination for outside use.

you should get a 850nm for the brightest illumination, knowing there will be a slight glow visible from the led (don't look at the led directly close up, it could cause eye damage).

there are 940nm leds that would be almost non visible, but I don't know how much power is left in the side spectrum to illuminate things (the wavelengths put out by an led is like a very sharp peak centered around what ever wavelength the led is spec'ed for)
Link Posted: 8/23/2018 1:20:29 PM EDT
[#13]
Solarforce makes a great IR light. Runs about 30 bucks. Its what I use.
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