Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
BCM
User Panel

Posted: 4/9/2018 2:08:57 PM EDT
I'm looking at purchasing a dedicated 9mm PCC (or pistol that will get a brace).  However, seems like there are a ton of great options these days and I'm feeling overwhelmed with options (a great problem to have).

I'm interested in:

Zenith Z5-P
CZ Scorpion
Kriss Vector
B&T GHM9
Sig MPX

Which one do I want and why?  Has anyone done a direct comparison of all five?  I'm aware of MAC's video comparing the MP5, MPX, and Scorpion.

Thanks in advance!
Link Posted: 4/9/2018 2:44:26 PM EDT
[#1]
These are al good choices, and I have experience with all of them, so here goes:

Zenith Z5-P - I own one of these and it’s an excellent value for a roller delayed gun. The fit, finishing and operation are all excellent. Comes with three mags and a nice enough hard case. Downside: HK parts are expensive and rollers wear over time. I don’t love their polymer lower, but it can be changed out. I own a pistol variant with a brace.

CZ Scorpion: extremely basic sub gun with a simple blowback design. Reliable, well made, cheap parts and good support from CZ and aftermarket. Downsides are the factory grip angle, safety release bothers some, more recoil than you would expect. Suppressed ok, but a fair amount of port noise. I own a SBR.

Kriss Vector: overly complicated for a semi auto. I own a .45 SBR. Parts are sold basically exclusively through KRISS. Very little aftermarket support. Suppresses well. Reliable, but extractors break.

B&T GHM9: excellent value Swiss blowback. I would wait for the K. Expensive mags. Aftermarket is picking up. Supresses well. I like the KH9 and APC better. I own a pistol, but probably will sell it and buy the K.

Sig MPX: very refined system with excellent reliability. Mags are extremely high quality. Never had a failure on my SBR or pistol. I like the K allot, but don’t currently have one. I’ve run these stock and with binary triggers to excellent effect. Probably the most technically advanced on your list, only to be outdone by the APC. Downside is weight and cost.
Link Posted: 4/9/2018 3:12:28 PM EDT
[#2]
I've only done research, no actual ownership, so I'd take this with a few bags of salt and base more off people with actual ownership.

My understanding:

Zenith is great if you a) want an MP5, or b) want to go hella small.

Scorpion is great if you want amazing performance per dollar, and can't leave anything stock.

Vector is great if you want a range toy with impressive technicalities

B&T is great if you want Swiss machining, without quite as large a price tag as it normally runs.

MPX is great if the Vector wasn't heavy enough for you.

I've handled the Scorpion, Vector, and MPX carbine/MCX pistol. Out of those three, the scorpion is far and away my favorite, but I'll give a little bit of a breakdown on each one. Below here is only dealing with these three, and no regard to the Zenith or B&T.

While the MPX did feel extremely well made, it also felt nearly as heavy as my AR15. If I'm getting something that size and weight, I'll get an AR pistol in 5.56 or 300blk and have massively superior ballistics. Or I'll just build an AR9, come in cheaper, lighter, and more personalized.

The Vector was nice, but between it's weight, balance, ergos, and online reports of questionable reliability, I wouldn't pick it for serious use. However, the Vector is the only one I've fired, and there's effectively 0 recoil. If I wanted to run a PCC competition, this is honestly what I'd probably pick. You do have to deal with an insane height over bore for your sights, but between taking glock mags and staying on target like a laser beam, this one really is a gloriously entertaining gun to shoot at the range.

Overall though, I'd go with the Scorpion. For three reasons:

1) Price for performance and fun, the Scorpion seems to be out front by a good margin.
2) Ergonomically, the MPX is better, but if you replace the safety on the Scorpion then it's neck and neck, if not ahead.
Which leads into:
3) The number of modifications available for this thing is (correct me if I'm wrong) one of if not the best on the market for PCC's.

As someone who can't leave a single thing I own in stock condition, this last point is an amazingly important thing. As someone who's college-level broke, the price point of the Scorpion and it's available parts is very attractive. I haven't heard any reliability issues like I have with the Vector, and it doesn't feel like a boat anchor as the Sig does.

Here's a quick and interesting thing on the weights, and why I can't stand the Sig:

Sig MCX pistol: 7.4lbs w/brace
Sig MPX Pistol: 6.2lbs w/brace
Sig MPX Carbine: 7.6lbs
CZ Scorpion Carbine: 6.4lbs w/muzzle brake
CZ Scorpion Pistol: 5.0lbs w/o brace
CZ Scorpion Pistol: 5.8lbs w/brace (added on afterwards) (sb tactical brace is 12.4oz, which still keeps it sub 6lbs)

The Sig MPX pistol weights near as much as the Scorpion carbine, whereas the Scorpion pistol is nearly a half pound lighter than the lightest MPX with both braced. I'm not finding actual numbers right now, but I'm assuming you could cut that weight down even further with a Tailhook. If I'm getting a PCC, it's because I want something lighter and more compact than my AR. When I can build or buy an AR that's as light or lighter than the Sig PCC's, I fail to see their purpose. There's simply no need or reason for them to be as heavy as they are. Especially at their high price point.

TL;DR - the scoprion is nice and light with a really good price point and a wonderful aftermarket. The MPX is a boat anchor, the Vector has a few issues to keep it from serious usage, and I don't have direct experience with the Zenith or B&T.

Currently, if I wanted to just go get something right now for most any use, I'm going with the Scorpion. If I wanted to step up in price slightly to get a go-to-war PCC, and don't mind waiting to source one, I'm probably going to get the B&T.

edit: again, I have only fired 2 mags through the vector, and just handled the mpx/evo. If I'm wrong on any of my above statements, please correct me.
Link Posted: 4/9/2018 10:16:40 PM EDT
[#3]
Scorpion or b&t are the way to go. Top quality swiss or high quality cz with enough savings to trick out and buy mags.

Skip the vector

Sombody, forgot who i think palmetto/PSA is making mp5k clones now for $750 which is half the zenith price  tag
Link Posted: 4/9/2018 10:30:41 PM EDT
[#4]
I really like the mpx.  Easy to shoot, no recoil almost.  Its feels like a quality gun.  The scorpion felt a little large in my hands and cheap.  Id really like to try the b&t apc.  Mp5s are fun too, but id take the mpx over it with more of an AR ergonomics.

Eta, im not a fan of the vector.  Just didnt really like anything about it.
Link Posted: 4/9/2018 11:17:13 PM EDT
[#5]
I really love the Scorpion but I ended up going MPX in the end because it can take a binary trigger, and Geissele's MPX SCH HUGELY mitigates gas-to-face when shooting suppressed such that it's not an issue anymore IMO as long as you upgrade the charging handle. MPX is also a pillow soft shooter. Not that big an issue at a low rate of fire, but at higher rates, the MPX feels tons more controllable than the feeling of a brick flying back and forth that a blowback PCC tends to have.

Just from the fact that it's Ron Cohen-era Sig though, I'm not going to trust it completely till I've hit a couple thousand rounds total and know I dodged the Sig QC lottery.
Link Posted: 4/9/2018 11:21:11 PM EDT
[#6]
I've got a gen 1 mpx 8 inch barrel with folding brace and an SD3G trigger in it.  It is an excellent subgun platform.  It is smooth to shoot, accurate, and completely ambi(lefty here). If you are into wingshooting, you know when you swing an exceptional shotgun, you get the feeling of superior balance and form, an extension of our body if you will, I get that feeling in the subgun category with the mpx. I have not had any issues with it.  I have one of those mpx magpula speed loaders which works insanely fast and easy, great for out shooting your wallet.  I also have range time with the gen 2 K version of the mpx with collapsible brace and it is also very nice.  I like both better than the scorpions I have shot.  Really not even a comparison, the mpx is a step or two above.  I have really wanted a B&T APC in 45 but haven't been able to justify the cost,  leaning towards a nice .300 blackout pistol build plus a suppressor for less than the B&T.
Link Posted: 4/10/2018 8:51:52 AM EDT
[#7]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I've got a gen 1 mpx 8 inch barrel with folding brace and an SD3G trigger in it.  It is an excellent subgun platform.  It is smooth to shoot, accurate, and completely ambi(lefty here). If you are into wingshooting, you know when you swing an exceptional shotgun, you get the feeling of superior balance and form, an extension of our body if you will, I get that feeling in the subgun category with the mpx. I have not had any issues with it.  I have one of those mpx magpula speed loaders which works insanely fast and easy, great for out shooting your wallet.  I also have range time with the gen 2 K version of the mpx with collapsible brace and it is also very nice.  I like both better than the scorpions I have shot.  Really not even a comparison, the mpx is a step or two above.  I have really wanted a B&T APC in 45 but haven't been able to justify the cost,  leaning towards a nice .300 blackout pistol build plus a suppressor for less than the B&T.
View Quote
I agree. Of the “sub guns” I own, the MPX is probably the most refined. For overal effectiveness, for serious use, the MCX Rattler should not be ignored given it is the size of a MPx-K but backs a .300 punch. For 9mm, the only thing that compares is the APC, but it’s a much simpler design.
Link Posted: 4/13/2018 1:40:00 PM EDT
[#8]
I have a scorpion and a MPX and a GHM9.....Cant go wrong with Scorpion, but GD do I LOOOOOOVE the GHM9. Like I'm literally sitting on my couch watching movies hugging it. Literally.
Link Posted: 4/13/2018 2:03:37 PM EDT
[#9]
Is it for USPSA PCC? If yes - CMMG Guard or MPX

If no

Can you afford an MP5 clone?

Then mp5 clone is the answer....srsly
Link Posted: 4/14/2018 11:23:22 AM EDT
[#10]
I have most on your list.

CZ Scorpion - Great gun when you add a few upgrades (extended charging handle, trigger)

KRISS Vector - I personally love my Gen 2 9mm.  Very reliable and I have a factory folding cheekpiece with the Gen 1 tailhook brace and it looks badass.

Sig MPX Pistols - I have the 8 inch and 4.5" pistols and both are awesome.  I got ride of the factory brace and have the SB Tactical retractable braces on both.   Add some good sights and optic and call it a day.  All you really need to upgrade is the charging handle if you don't want it to abuse your upper receiver.
Link Posted: 4/14/2018 6:01:48 PM EDT
[#11]


This is my 9mm Kriss Vector pistol, minus a RMR and my Obsidian 45. A fun gun for sure!
Link Posted: 4/14/2018 8:15:48 PM EDT
[#12]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I have a scorpion and a MPX and a GHM9.....Cant go wrong with Scorpion, but GD do I LOOOOOOVE the GHM9. Like I'm literally sitting on my couch watching movies hugging it. Literally.
View Quote
Same here, just got mine yesterday and I dont think I've stopped fondling it. We're watching movies together now.
Link Posted: 4/15/2018 6:24:05 PM EDT
[#13]
Judging on the responses above, it sounds like this is the synopsis:

MPX: great gun with familiar AR controls but heavy for what it is.
Scorpion: great “starter” PCC or for those that love mod’ing
GHM9: generally thought to be of higher quality than the scorpion
Vector: love/hate relationship. Some love, some just don’t get it.
MP5: why not? I mean... it’s a fucking MP5 :)

I’d probably want to go the route of buy once cry once for those asking about budget.
Link Posted: 4/16/2018 7:08:07 AM EDT
[#14]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

Sombody, forgot who i think palmetto/PSA is making mp5k clones now for $750 which is half the zenith price  tag
View Quote
Are they or is that later this or next year?
Link Posted: 4/16/2018 11:34:58 AM EDT
[#15]
I think the responses so far have pretty covered it.  Just like to add, for the money you can't beat the Scorpion.  If you are the guy that likes to own multiples of everything, can't go wrong starting with that one.  If you are the kind of guy that just wants one and isn't afraid to spend extra money, I would look to an H&K clone or the MPX.
Link Posted: 4/16/2018 11:50:55 AM EDT
[#16]
Maybe the Grand Power Stribog that should be coming out fairly soon?? Price point should be around Scorpion range. The Stribog looks  ar-ish, but purpose built as a 9mm. Its been available in Europe for a few years.
Link Posted: 4/17/2018 12:38:23 PM EDT
[#17]
I currently own these pcc's:
Ps90 sbr
Tp9 sbr
Mini uzi sbr
Ghm9 with brace

I've owned:
Full size Uzi sbr
Coharie ca89 sbr (MP5 clone)
Scorpion evo3 with brace
Pps43 9mm
KT sub 2k 9mm

I would rank the top 3 as Ghm9, MP5 clone, tp9. The scorpion does have a great aftermarket but I didn't find it fun to shoot compared with my other
subguns. Mags are somewhat pricey for the B&T guns but the prices are coming down. They can be found for around $45 if you look around and are ready
to buy when in stock. I really think at about $1100-$1200 the ghm9 is awesome, soft shooter,  very good trigger, easy to brace.

Attachment Attached File
Link Posted: 4/17/2018 1:55:43 PM EDT
[#18]
Roll your own...familiar controls, cheap mags, endlessly customizable and great aftermarket.

Attachment Attached File
Link Posted: 4/17/2018 2:03:31 PM EDT
[#19]
I went with the mke, well 2 of them.

They run great, recoil is laughable and 3-lug

Link Posted: 4/17/2018 3:01:31 PM EDT
[#20]
I've had a few PCC's

Ruger PC4
AR15 9mm
Kriss Vector 9mm
Bobcat MP5 clone

I prefer the Kriss, just got this one last week after trading my first Kriss last year.

Attachment Attached File
Link Posted: 4/17/2018 9:10:26 PM EDT
[#21]
Sold my 9mm AR
No interest in the Kris or MPX
I love my Evo K and just picked up a full size MP5
I'd love a GHM9 and a full size Uzi. And a PS90...

Attachment Attached File
Link Posted: 4/17/2018 9:43:38 PM EDT
[#22]
JP GMR 15.
Link Posted: 4/17/2018 11:28:21 PM EDT
[#23]
Obvious answer is obvious. MP5
Link Posted: 4/18/2018 11:20:24 AM EDT
[#24]
I forgot to mention that I'd like to buy one in pistol form as my municipality doesn't allow SBR's

Also, the AR-based 9mm's are great but I'd rather have a gun purpose-built for the cartridge.  I think I've narrowed it down to the MPX, GHM9, or MP5 clone.

I don't plan to shoot suppressed so gas-to-face of the MPX is a non-issue.

If you had to pick one for home defense, which would it be?
Link Posted: 4/18/2018 8:04:43 PM EDT
[#25]
Of those 3... GHM9!
Link Posted: 4/18/2018 9:44:12 PM EDT
[#26]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Are they or is that later this or next year?
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:

Sombody, forgot who i think palmetto/PSA is making mp5k clones now for $750 which is half the zenith price  tag
Are they or is that later this or next year?
Last I heard, end of 2018 if they iron out the wrinkles. And I think a $750 price tag is creative thinking to put it mildly. Hell, PTR are the domestic masters of producing affordable, roller delayed blowback firearms and their newly introduced experiment into the MP5 design is MSRP'ing around $1800. I could be incorrect though.
Link Posted: 4/19/2018 9:54:54 AM EDT
[#27]
With the choices you’ve narrowed it down to I’d go MPX all the way.  I am tempted to get one but the price of the Scorpion and it’s mags are tempting.
Link Posted: 4/19/2018 8:02:22 PM EDT
[#28]
I'm debating this question as well myself...............looking at either the GHM9 or the Scorpion Evo Micro pistol with brace............
Link Posted: 4/20/2018 8:05:12 AM EDT
[#29]
For what it's worth, I just traded my Kriss Vector for a CZ scorpion.
Close Join Our Mail List to Stay Up To Date! Win a FREE Membership!

Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!

You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.


By signing up you agree to our User Agreement. *Must have a registered ARFCOM account to win.
Top Top