So after awhile of twittling my thumbs around, I decided this is the year I'll bite the bullet and treat myself to some NODs (wish me luck after SHOT 2018). For reference I'll be using a bino set up (Sentinel/Mini BNVD/DTNVG/-15/-31) with WP tubes (not sure if there is an advantage yet but they seem softer on the eyes) and the primary focus will be night shooting (flash hider and suppressor off a 10.5/16" AR and a Q Honey Badger that is about to come out NFA jail). I used PEQ-4, PEQ-15, PVS-22s while in the Army, not going the clip-on route because of the weight and you lose a lot of SA unless your out at a distance behind some good glass which leaves me with IR lasers (MAWL/DBAL-A3/ANTIPAL) and the EXPS-3 which caught my attention but I'm not sure how difficult it is to sight down through the box with binos. For those that have some time doing this route what might be some pros and cons. My biggest concerns between the two routes is as follows

- With the EOTech I'm guessing its a Chin-weld but how much do you have to focus the googles to get the reticle to come into play and do you lose view distance because of it

-Muzzle flash. I wore -7Ds as a -240 gunner once and it was a shitty time with them cutting out because of the muzzle blast (not a fun time holding your toggle switch with one hand and the other on the gun). IR lasers wont have this problem but with the standalone EOTech and being a bit closer to the gun will this be an issue with suppressor back pressure and or flash. I know the thin-filmed hold up better when mounted compared to the filmless (for -14s) and would this be another consideration to have?

I run my NV at nearly minimum gain and I almost always run my lasers with neutral density filters on them to minimize blooming and the excessive brightness of the spot.

Still, though, because of the size of the laser spot at, say 100 yards (my Steiner is just about 2" there), plus the blooming/splash around that dot, I find I can shoot MUCH faster and with far better precision by peeping through the EOTech with the NV.
That one mil dot stays at one mil and is nice and clear, because it is at the far focus point. The NV requires no focus adjustment at all.

You know the proper answer.....both!

But seriously, get a riser for that eotech. Trust me....huge difference. I find I even like it better during the day.

And man oh man are you going to be blown away by WP Binos if you’re use to 7’s.

I’d suggest contact your home owners and see if you can a special rider to cover them. That’s what I did. Covers most everything. Even me being dumb and falling on my face and trashing them.

I don't want to high Jack the thread but which EOTech would I go with if I want to shoot hogs w 300 Blk at night around 75 - 100 yards with my helmet mounted PVS14. I bought a cheap IR laser and the blooming and splash were too much.
Thanks

All the EOTech sights I have used had 1 mil dot in a 65 mil (or so) circle. All looked the same to me.
The difference was in which were NV compatible and which batteries they require.
I accidentally bought the AA battery model but am perfectly happy with that. I wouldn't be if I lost the battery cover out in the swamp. And it does waste some rail space. I'd rather have typed the correct number and received the CR123 version.

I have a Colt 6921 lower with a HK416 upper and the QD mount Eotech EXPS 3-0, along with the magnifier. I actually took it to the range Sunday evening to check the zero since I just installed a HK416 AGR. After it got dark I was shooting at VTAC skeleton targets at 100, 200, 300, and 400 yards. I had no issues what so ever making hits looking through the optic using a PVS-31a. My groups did open up by roughly 10% and to be honest it was probably just me, but it is completely workable. Obviously I am not claiming this is the best way to do things, but it is a way.

I would get the EXPS 3-0 with the throw lever mount. It sits higher and is easier to look through. The only issue you will have is the smoke immediately after the shot. If the wind is blowing it is not an issue. If the air is still, you do not have the same experience as you would in the thermal videos you see where they just blast away.

Here is a video I shot, you can see the smoke cloud the FOV after the shot.

Eotech reticle's are 1 MOA dot 65 MOA ring. They equate to roughly covering 1 (1.04 I believe) inch and ~65 inches at 100 yards each "Mil's" are a different unit of measure entirely and 1 mil is not similar to 1 MOA.

Eta: 1 mil = 3.6 inches at 100yds
1 MOA = 1.047 inches at 100yds

I know the difference between a mil and an MOA.
Where "mil" came from when I was thinking MOA, I do NOT know.
I better get checked !

Well my cheap Asian nv does not play well with optics so I went laser.

I know you are getting many different opinions here.  From guys I've talked to, that use -31a's and PEQ-15's, (and EOTech's BTW), going passive and sighting through the EOTech is a "1%" solution, and that is a direct quote.  Now granted they were door-kickers and shooting fast at close ranges, but the IR laser was the aiming system of choice.

Now that being said, some guys are going with an additional 1/2" or 5/8" riser, to elevate the EOTech, to allow using it in passive NV mode, for "peer-to-peer" engagements.  The extra height allows for the extra length of tube your eye has to sight through, without having to "turkey neck" to see through the reticle.  Look down through the threads when you have time.  There are several good discussions about this stuff.  I run a Halosun 515, on a 1/2" Hahn riser, with a head-mounted -14, set at infinity.  The reticle is nice and sharp when sighting through it to the target.  I found that I just like the extra height for all-around shooting, with or without NV, not just to have the option of passive NV.

But I would hazard to guess, that using the IR laser is still the most common aiming system in use.  At least with guys that have BNVD's and top-end lasers.

Not sure I quite understand what you were asking in the last paragraph, but no, I haven't noticed any problems with muzzle flash, or back pressure from my can either.  I get a little carbon blowing out around the gas port, and a lot in the chamber, but nothing that effects the IR laser (or illum), or the RDS.  In reference to thin-filmed (or filmless) tubes and recoil, that is usually a -14 in the weapons mounted mode.  Regardless of what they're rated for, I don't think it's a good idea, especially when head mounted systems work so much better.  So if you are going with head-mounted BNVD's, this is a non-issue.  Speaking of films, the new L3 Filmless WP are reportedly pretty good.

I've nto done any shooting with binos, but do have the 30mm (or 30.5mm) 720 IR bypass filter on the front of both of my 14s.  I have several UNI-IRs (.7mw) and red UNIs (5mw) and a CWBL (.7mW IR).  The blooming on the .7mW IR lasers just killed me, but with extra IR, the blooming is greatly reduced.  With the 720 filter on the PVVS14s, I find that the 5mw red visible lasers of the UNI and CQBL show a much tighter dot, but with extra IR, the red laser dot gets washed out.  Before I got a thermal scope, I was running a red UNI at 6 o'clock and the CQBL in IR mode at 12 o'clock with IR at 9.  With  pressure pads for the two lasers, I could switch between both.  If I couldn't remember which was which, I could squeeze both and the hogs never seemed to care about hte red laser dot.  Oh, and I had an EOTech on top on a riser.  Depending on the distance and what was going on, I'd take my time and usually shoot with the EOTech, but after the first shot, the lasers came into play on running pigs.

Or, jsut get a thermal scope and be done with it.

I have an EXPS-3 on all of the guns that I shoot with NV. I think it is really easy to shoot with. When I coyote hunt with them I try to use the EOTech over the laser if possible. I just think it's more precise.

I am using Sentinels with ITT (Harris) Pinnacle tubes.

Depending on the location and lighting condition your hunting in. If your out under bright moon/star/city light pollution using a Eotech or stand alone IR laser will do fine especially since your getting a high spec set of NODs. The time your going to wish you bought a MAWL C1+, D2 or something with a IR laser/illuminator built into one unit is going to be a no moon/star/light pollution, under a thick canopy, etc. You can always supplement your stand alone IR laser or Eotech with a IR illuminator you'll end up buying pressure pads etc to run more efficiently and can add up to the amount of a decent LAM such as a I2 9007.

I appreciate all the input from everyone, certainly gathered some new prespectives. I'm certainly looking forward to getting some WP binos now hopefully soon and getting in some late trigger time!

If you use the ir laser and eotech together its pretty good .. what ends up happening is if you lose your eotech reticle for whatever reason its a seamless transition to your ir laser..this all assumes your head mounting your night vision..

While the EOTech is more natural and more accurate at distance, an IR illuminator will help tremendously -- even with the best WP tubes. Yotes just blend in and are difficult to pick out at distance, where a quality illuminator will make them pop. A quick squawk and their eyes will pop like beacons when they stop and turn to look. So don't buy one thinking about just the laser / aiming.

Oh yeah... hi guys!

Good to have you back!

Deer Lowered. I was pretty sure you were to never touch or talk about Gen3 stuff again...

Glad you’re back.

Oh, and now I’m thinking about getting an EoTech for night time fun.

Haven't seen you for some time, welcome back.

I have been practicing shooting goggles down without laser. Kind of Diz mentioned, I like the capability of aiming without burning target. I have a Su231/553 that's bridged between the quadrail and upper. It's comfortable but I can definitely reason a riser could make sight picture easier. You shouldn't have to refocus your goggle. Maybe later this week I can take pictures and contribute something.

The real world results are different between with my m845 and the laser setup.  The scope dot is best for focused fine work and I think it’s a smoother lead to trigger pull.  When they run it’s almost like skeet practice. The laser has no match when you have more than 5 pigs going multiple directions.  Not as accurate but great situational awareness.

Me and a partner opened on 8 pigs at 150 yards. They ran straight for us but were fanned out killed the 4 that were head on with the boar stopping 12 feet short of me then I took the 2 that veered left and partner took the 2 that went right.  It was exciting but I had full situational awareness and it never felt unsafe.  Killed them all.

Edit: I just saw the Horta puts a smile on my face man.