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Posted: 1/7/2019 11:40:46 AM EDT
I am not sure why Sig made this variant, when we already have the MPX-K model. The barrel length on the Copperhad is 3.5" (less than a standard handgun) and only 1" shorter than the MPX-K model.
There are no M-lok rails or Keymod, and only a proprietary interface on the side for potential short rails later on. I see no reason to waste another $1800 on a gun that is only 1" shorter than the MPX-K. What are your thoughts? 
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Posted: 1/7/2019 12:11:35 PM EDT
[#1]
My biggest complaint is the muzzle device/design seems to impede on the possibility of getting a can onto it. I get that it probably wasn't designed around it but I love being able to throw a can on my PCCs.
With the posted price at 1800, it should be 1600 or less at the actual shops, so this could be considered the economy model for people that might still be hesitant at the 1900+ price tag of the standard. Kind of lame that they ditched the ejection door. |
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Posted: 1/7/2019 12:33:33 PM EDT
[#2]
I think they said the "muzzle brake" or whatever is integral. It looks like shit.
But the advances on the lower lower with the integrated latch for the telescoping stock is cool, and definitely an upgrade. |
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Posted: 1/7/2019 12:51:25 PM EDT
[#3]
But a 3.5" barrel is too short to have decent power in 9mm (the integrated flash hider is measured as part of the barrel length, so the barrel is shorter). You would be getting compact handgun speeds out of it at best. I do like the integrated brace knuckle, I do like the monolithic upper with low profile, but I already own a MPX-K and can't see any reason why I would want this one over that.
I believe they released this one fast due to the CZ Scorpion Micro being delayed and wanted to hit the micro market first. |
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Posted: 1/7/2019 12:58:20 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
But a 3.5" barrel is too short to have decent power in 9mm (the integrated flash hider is measured as part of the barrel length, so the barrel is shorter). You would be getting compact handgun speeds out of it at best. I do like the integrated brace knuckle, I do like the monolithic upper with low profile, but I already own a MPX-K and can't see any reason why I would want this one over that. I believe they released this one fast due to the CZ Scorpion Micro being delayed and wanted to hit the micro market first. |
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Posted: 1/7/2019 3:29:18 PM EDT
[#5]
I just don’t understand the appeal of a carbine with the barrel length of a handgun. What does this do better than a Sig P320 or M17 with an extended mag and mini RDS? At what point does the barrel length get to be too short and the price too high for a “carbine”, that it’s better to just get a normal handgun? What’s next, one with a 2” barrel?
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Posted: 1/7/2019 3:53:10 PM EDT
[#6]
IMO the biggest takeaway is the ultra short/compact sliding brace. That attachment point is inches smaller than the current one. Very cool.
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Posted: 1/7/2019 4:01:55 PM EDT
[#7]
Does this mean the prices on the older MPX models will come down some????
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Posted: 1/7/2019 4:08:02 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I just don’t understand the appeal of a carbine with the barrel length of a handgun. What does this do better than a Sig P320 or M17 with an extended mag and mini RDS? At what point does the barrel length get to be too short and the price too high for a “carbine”, that it’s better to just get a normal handgun? What’s next, one with a 2” barrel? A PCC will always out shoot a handgun. ETA: This is 9mm we are talking about, it doesn't truly gain much by doing an 8", 12" or 16" barrel. Most of the rounds developed for it are designed to expand from barrels ranging from 3"-5", so why bother with the added bulk for nominal gains in velocity? What I really want Sig to make is a damned 10mm MPX with a 8" barrel, that would be something awesome. |
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Posted: 1/7/2019 4:08:52 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
IMO the biggest takeaway is the ultra short/compact sliding brace. That attachment point is inches smaller than the current one. Very cool. |
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Posted: 1/7/2019 6:14:48 PM EDT
[#10]
Saw one in person at the local Scheels... They're just as ugly in person. Shorter brace/rear is nice for the collapsing model only... Eh. Also an integrated 3-lug would have been WORLDS ahead of that weird looking claw/FH.
Would have been neat for them to integrate a spring-assist open on the slider rails. Seems like it would be easy enough to do. |
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Posted: 1/7/2019 6:37:32 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It results in faster follow up shots and a more stable shooting platform. A PCC will always out shoot a handgun. ETA: This is 9mm we are talking about, it doesn't truly gain much by doing an 8", 12" or 16" barrel. Most of the rounds developed for it are designed to expand from barrels ranging from 3"-5", so why bother with the added bulk for nominal gains in velocity? What I really want Sig to make is a damned 10mm MPX with a 8" barrel, that would be something awesome. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I just don’t understand the appeal of a carbine with the barrel length of a handgun. What does this do better than a Sig P320 or M17 with an extended mag and mini RDS? At what point does the barrel length get to be too short and the price too high for a “carbine”, that it’s better to just get a normal handgun? What’s next, one with a 2” barrel? A PCC will always out shoot a handgun. ETA: This is 9mm we are talking about, it doesn't truly gain much by doing an 8", 12" or 16" barrel. Most of the rounds developed for it are designed to expand from barrels ranging from 3"-5", so why bother with the added bulk for nominal gains in velocity? What I really want Sig to make is a damned 10mm MPX with a 8" barrel, that would be something awesome. |
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Posted: 1/7/2019 6:40:41 PM EDT
[#12]
Let me just say that if the integrated collapsible stock option makes its way to a stripped MCX receiver, I will buy one immediately.
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Posted: 1/7/2019 7:00:07 PM EDT
[#13]
This makes zero sense.
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Posted: 1/7/2019 7:45:47 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This makes zero sense. It clearly isn't intended for main use PCC/SMG but rather ultimate in concealment. |
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Posted: 1/7/2019 8:28:21 PM EDT
[#15]
Quoted:
I am not sure why Sig made this variant, when we already have the MPX-K model. The barrel length on the Copperhad is 3.5" (less than a standard handgun) and only 1" shorter than the MPX-K model. There are no M-lok rails or Keymod, and only a proprietary interface on the side for potential short rails later on. I see no reason to waste another $1800 on a gun that is only 1" shorter than the MPX-K. What are your thoughts? https://www.sigsauer.com/store/media/custom/product/mpxcopperhead-gallery-2.jpg |
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Posted: 1/7/2019 8:40:54 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It actually does. This gives you a package that is incredibly small that can fit in just about any small backpack but produces more accurate firepower than a concealed handgun. It clearly isn't intended for main use PCC/SMG but rather ultimate in concealment. |
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Posted: 1/7/2019 9:02:56 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
While agree to a point...I still don't see the $$$ justification for this...and I am a big MCX/MPX fan. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: It actually does. This gives you a package that is incredibly small that can fit in just about any small backpack but produces more accurate firepower than a concealed handgun. It clearly isn't intended for main use PCC/SMG but rather ultimate in concealment. That being stated, someone out there might be looking for something that is extremely small, which is where this factors in. Also it is a MSRP on Sigs site of 1800 which should mean a street price at or under 1600. Again, I still won't be buying it but I can appreciate what they are going for. |
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Posted: 1/7/2019 11:21:26 PM EDT
[#18]
Quoted:
I am not sure why Sig made this variant, when we already have the MPX-K model. The barrel length on the Copperhad is 3.5" (less than a standard handgun) and only 1" shorter than the MPX-K model. There are no M-lok rails or Keymod, and only a proprietary interface on the side for potential short rails later on. I see no reason to waste another $1800 on a gun that is only 1" shorter than the MPX-K. What are your thoughts? Do we know those screws on the handguard are an interface? It seems like it would be barrel mounting as the screws for the barrel are not where they would otherwise be located. |
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Posted: 1/8/2019 9:03:11 AM EDT
[#19]
For all the people commenting on the barrel length and velocity. Read these numbers.
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Posted: 1/8/2019 9:13:01 AM EDT
[#20]
I'd rather have this:
Plus this: 
for less than 1/2 the price. |
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Posted: 1/8/2019 11:17:34 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'd rather have this: https://www.range365.com/sites/range365.com/files/styles/1000_1x_/public/glock_19_mos-1.png?itok=QUOTP0XP Plus this: https://i2.wp.com/caagearup.com/wp-content/uploads/csm/0001624_micro-roni-stabilizer-advanced-kit.jpg?fit=1600%2C960&ssl=1 for less than 1/2 the price. You'd also have something that is 4+ inches longer than this MPX. |
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Posted: 1/8/2019 12:33:45 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Actually will be somewhere around half the price, not less. You'd also have something that is 4+ inches longer than this MPX. Id provide links, but on my phone and its a pia. ETA: looks like CAA is coming out with a Sig and MP version of the MCK as well. |
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Posted: 1/8/2019 1:39:37 PM EDT
[#23]
http://soldiersystems.net/page/2/
I am hoping this one gets released in semi only. The FDE is pretty fugly. |
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Posted: 1/8/2019 1:39:41 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Psa sells the g19 for $499.00 regularly and CAA sells the the MCK roni for $250.00. Id provide links, but on my phone and its a pia. ETA: looks like CAA is coming out with a Sig and MP version of the MCK as well. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Actually will be somewhere around half the price, not less. You'd also have something that is 4+ inches longer than this MPX. Id provide links, but on my phone and its a pia. ETA: looks like CAA is coming out with a Sig and MP version of the MCK as well. I'm surprised CAA doesn't just make a drop in unit for the P320 trigger pack to make it into a PCC, easy enough to do. |
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Posted: 1/8/2019 2:58:30 PM EDT
[#25]
The Rattler was made for a contract for a specific customer and the civilian market got the benefit. My guess is another customer has different RFP and the Copperhead is designed around that, and the consumers once again get the benefit of the model being producrd in a larger scale.
Sven Manticore Arms |
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Posted: 1/8/2019 3:46:32 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: While agree to a point...I still don't see the $$$ justification for this...and I am a big MCX/MPX fan. Was at my local shop today and they confirmed they have a couple dozen of these coming in mid February and they will be charging $1,449.00 |
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Posted: 1/8/2019 3:48:02 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I will definitely pick one up when they are available. My justification for spending $$$..........I am always looking for the shortest, smallest, lightest, stripped down PDW I can get my hands on. That is why I already have an SBR'd VZ61 Scorpion, & SBR'd Micro UZI, & SBR'd Kriss Vector, & an SBR'd MP5-K clone, & SBR'd Mini Draco & a braced Scorpion Evo3 S1. Was at my local shop today and they confirmed they have a couple dozen of these coming in mid February and they will be charging $1,449.00 Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: While agree to a point...I still don't see the $$$ justification for this...and I am a big MCX/MPX fan. Was at my local shop today and they confirmed they have a couple dozen of these coming in mid February and they will be charging $1,449.00 |
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Posted: 1/8/2019 4:43:42 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Mind posting a review, when you get your hands on it? 
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Posted: 1/8/2019 4:49:19 PM EDT
[#29]
I can't tell from the pics, does this thing accept AR grips?
Anybody know the collapsed OAL reduction over the "old" MPX? ETA, decided to be a man and look it up OAL is 8" shorter!!!!! |
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Posted: 1/8/2019 5:00:28 PM EDT
[#30]
I sure hope that thing is threaded.
MPX Barrel is $600 |
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Posted: 1/8/2019 5:13:42 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I sure hope that thing is threaded. MPX Barrel is $600 ETA: Should accept standard grips, in the pic above it's using the same grip found on the MCX Rattler which also can utilize standard AR15 grips. |
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Posted: 1/8/2019 6:39:56 PM EDT
[#32]
Called the LGS this morning and placed an order for one. Hope to see it this week or weekend.
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Posted: 1/12/2019 2:03:07 PM EDT
[#33]
I think this the civilian version of the SIG sub compact weapon submitted to the Army’s PDW solicitation.
Makes more sense when framed as a tiny select fire PDW. |
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Posted: 1/12/2019 2:04:25 PM EDT
[#34]
Double
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Posted: 1/12/2019 4:32:08 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think this the civilian version of the SIG sub compact weapon submitted to the Army’s PDW solicitation. Makes more sense when framed as a tiny select fire PDW. |
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Posted: 1/12/2019 4:43:37 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I just don't understand the omission of threads or the ability to mount a can. If they make it physically impossible to put a can on it, it will be less problematic than putting "suppressor will void warranty" in the manual and dealing with everyone doing it anyways. |
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Posted: 1/12/2019 8:53:12 PM EDT
[#37]
No ability to mount a can? Im confused...
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Posted: 1/12/2019 8:55:29 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No ability to mount a can? Im confused... |
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Posted: 1/12/2019 11:08:12 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I would assume significant issues with functionality due to the short bbl with the piston. If they make it physically impossible to put a can on it, it will be less problematic than putting "suppressor will void warranty" in the manual and dealing with everyone doing it anyways. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I just don't understand the omission of threads or the ability to mount a can. If they make it physically impossible to put a can on it, it will be less problematic than putting "suppressor will void warranty" in the manual and dealing with everyone doing it anyways. I'm just happy that Sig offers the military contract bid weapons to us average Joe citizens. |
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Posted: 1/13/2019 9:44:45 AM EDT
[#40]
I think it is ugly as shit. I have an 8 inch love it, but no way would I buy that thing. The k is already tiny.
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Posted: 1/13/2019 10:17:27 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think it is ugly as shit. I have an 8 inch love it, but no way would I buy that thing. The k is already tiny. Have an 8 inch and K model but won't be adding that thing. It's uglier than a bag of dicks. |
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Posted: 1/14/2019 3:25:14 PM EDT
[#42]
I think it looks beauuuuutiful and will be adding one to my PCC/PDW collection as soon as my LGS gets them in (they say mid February. They also say my price will be $1,449.00).
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Posted: 1/14/2019 9:29:20 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think it looks beauuuuutiful and will be adding one to my PCC/PDW collection as soon as my LGS gets them in (they say mid February. They also say my price will be $1,449.00). |
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Posted: 1/14/2019 10:56:21 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Well you are one of the few. That thing is hideous looking to say the least. Flash hider serves no purpose whatsoever. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I think it looks beauuuuutiful and will be adding one to my PCC/PDW collection as soon as my LGS gets them in (they say mid February. They also say my price will be $1,449.00). |
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Posted: 1/15/2019 12:38:25 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It doesn’t suppress the flash at all? Also you put that in a bag and it'll get all kinds of hung up. Seen one in person. Looks like a giant turd. Much rather have that B&T Aimpoint Nano gun if you need a select fire pistol with a stock cause ballisticly that's all this is |
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Posted: 1/15/2019 1:11:45 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm wondering that too. To be honest, it's like Sig thought "hey let's give them that barrel split from a squib look out of the box" Also you put that in a bag and it'll get all kinds of hung up. Seen one in person. Looks like a giant turd. Much rather have that B&T Aimpoint Nano gun if you need a select fire pistol with a stock cause ballisticly that's all this is Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
It doesn’t suppress the flash at all? Also you put that in a bag and it'll get all kinds of hung up. Seen one in person. Looks like a giant turd. Much rather have that B&T Aimpoint Nano gun if you need a select fire pistol with a stock cause ballisticly that's all this is |
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Posted: 1/15/2019 1:55:59 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I haven't shot a USW but I have a hard time believing it's as easy to shoot as fast and accurately as a heavier gas piston gun. Just because it's a short barrel doesn't make them comparable in terms of how they shoot. PCC threads are always full of people saying similar stuff about why not just have a pistol and it is clear to me they don't spend much time shooting nor ever matched up the guns they are talking down. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
It doesn’t suppress the flash at all? Also you put that in a bag and it'll get all kinds of hung up. Seen one in person. Looks like a giant turd. Much rather have that B&T Aimpoint Nano gun if you need a select fire pistol with a stock cause ballisticly that's all this is To boot, the OAL of something like an MP5 is close to that of a 10.3 AR/MCX/SCAR and if you're already the size of a SBR, may as well just use the rifle caliber for more effective terminal ballistics. With a MPXK or the Copperhead, I'm capable of putting superior firepower (rounds fired accurately) over that of a traditional handgun but still carry it in a relatively small pack/bag. The bag size won't scream firearm, as the larger platform bags tend to do and won't be all that heavy. I'd much rather engage an opponent with a 3.5" PCC than a 4" G19. |
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Posted: 1/15/2019 9:14:24 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well you are one of the few. That thing is hideous looking to say the least. Flash hider serves no purpose whatsoever. Quote HistoryQuoted: Well you are one of the few. That thing is hideous looking to say the least. Flash hider serves no purpose whatsoever. It's hideous though, I'll give you that. Quoted:
I haven't shot a USW but I have a hard time believing it's as easy to shoot as fast and accurately as a heavier gas piston gun. Just because it's a short barrel doesn't make them comparable in terms of how they shoot. PCC threads are always full of people saying similar stuff about why not just have a pistol and it is clear to me they don't spend much time shooting nor ever matched up the guns they are talking down. That seems to be its design parameters. Which is why comparing it to anything outside of that is kind of a fool's errand. If you want to do pistol stuff, you need a pistol. If you want to do rifle stuff you need a rifle. If you want to give fobbits a subgun that they can carry everywhere and might hit something with, you give them this. Having been in both the Infantry and the most pougey of headquarters billet (NG JFHQ) and coached frail old people who should be retired and are terrifyingly bad at pistol quals, I absolutely understand the niche this fills. |
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Posted: 1/15/2019 12:27:35 PM EDT
[#49]
Quoted: I don't get the love for the 8"+ PCCs personally. At the end of the day, we are still shooting a pistol caliber round. It does not actually gain all that much, when slapping a longer barrel to it. Yes it does get more velocity but what does that translate to when most of the rounds are designed in the 3"-5" barrel lengths anyway. To boot, the OAL of something like an MP5 is close to that of a 10.3 AR/MCX/SCAR and if you're already the size of a SBR, may as well just use the rifle caliber for more effective terminal ballistics. With a MPXK or the Copperhead, I'm capable of putting superior firepower (rounds fired accurately) over that of a traditional handgun but still carry it in a relatively small pack/bag. The bag size won't scream firearm, as the larger platform bags tend to do and won't be all that heavy. I'd much rather engage an opponent with a 3.5" PCC than a 4" G19. 
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Posted: 1/15/2019 2:50:42 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You and I are on the same page. Doesn’t happen that often with you Texans Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: I don't get the love for the 8"+ PCCs personally. At the end of the day, we are still shooting a pistol caliber round. It does not actually gain all that much, when slapping a longer barrel to it. Yes it does get more velocity but what does that translate to when most of the rounds are designed in the 3"-5" barrel lengths anyway. To boot, the OAL of something like an MP5 is close to that of a 10.3 AR/MCX/SCAR and if you're already the size of a SBR, may as well just use the rifle caliber for more effective terminal ballistics. With a MPXK or the Copperhead, I'm capable of putting superior firepower (rounds fired accurately) over that of a traditional handgun but still carry it in a relatively small pack/bag. The bag size won't scream firearm, as the larger platform bags tend to do and won't be all that heavy. I'd much rather engage an opponent with a 3.5" PCC than a 4" G19. 
If not for funds being tight right now, I would pick up one of the Copperheads. I honestly like the design, it is a bit of an ugly oddball duckling but I prefer those as they have a bit of personality to them. With having the MPXK already, this just doesn't rank high enough to warrant a buy. It would have gone perfect next to my G19X too and made the diehard Glock fans have their heads explode by 2 firearms they feel are pointless.
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