I'm going to guess from your post that you're brand new to guns.  

Here is an educational video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WoYnaqkTmYM

I wouldn't say I'm "new" to guns. I'm relatively new to the silencer stuff. The muzzle devices I have installed are typically put on and never messed with. I've never attached anything to them. This is why I asked. I watched the video before posting. He simply states to "snug" the silencer on the muzzle device. He talked about the silencer coming off and the muzzle device not coming with it. However, I'm concerned about tightening it enough but not unscrewing the muzzle device. The video fails to address my question.

I'm interested to hear feedback from those who have actually used the system.

Thinking a properly loctited muzzle device will come loose is telling.  Dunning-Kreuger.  It's ok.

Your stated concern was "I don't want to have to worry about the muzzle device loosening."  They specified a torque value for the muzzle device in the video.

Thank god we have a know-it-all like you contributing to the forum. I'll review my biases more in-depth prior to posting next time.

Well, let me enlighten you a bit. Loctite degrades with heat. A muzzle device tends to heat up with use. (Not sure if you use your guns or just stroke them.) Either way, I'm simply asking for those who have used the platform if they have ever had any issues with the muzzle device loosening.

Take your psych 101 bullshit and share it elsewhere.

I used Rocksett on all of mine. None of them have come loose.

One of the primary features of the Xeno is it has reverse thread for the suppressor attachment. When you unscrew your suppressor, you are tightening your muzzle device at the same time. It's not possible for it to come off the with suppressor.

The only time you are potentially unscrewing the muzzle device is when you are screwing the suppressor on. Properly torque your muzzle device on to your barrel and you won't have a problem.  Rockset shouldn't even be necessary with these.  You only hand tighten the suppressor on.

Heaving never used a silencer I'm not sure how tight they need to be. From the videos I've watched it seems like most just hand tighten them as you suggested. Living in WI it gets pretty cold here during hunting season which is my primary use for the silencer. Going from a warm cabin to a deer stand and then back out in the cold can have an impact on equipment. The last thing I want is the silencer being loose while a trophy deer appears :)

When it arrives I'll torque the muzzle device to 25foot-lb. and see how it goes. Unfortunately, the wait times extend beyond our deer season :( Fingers crossed the stamp is approved as soon as possible.

Thanks for your feedback.

Yeah. I see your concern, but it's a non issue. The xeno (and many others) uses a taper. There is an angled edge on the mount in the suppressor and a matching angled edge on the muzzle device right in front of the threads.  These angles ride up and lock together with very little force. They are actually easier to get locked together than to break them apart.

Here is a good explanation of Tapers (starting 3:10 talks about your concern). (A different mfg mount in the vid but same exact design, Xeno just combines this with reverse thread for extra goodness)

Sorry.  Two too many white claws at breakfast I guess.  I'll tone it down.

I'm a li'l bit familiar with the platform.




Perform final hand tighten when you get to deer stand.  Problem solved.  Problem staying solved.

Me too.  

Torque it to spec and don't worry.

It's all good. I know what I do and am comfortable admitting what I don't. Hence why I'm here asking questions seeking information and knowledge from others.

I guess I left out the fact that I'll be using the Nomad 30 on both my MK18 and my AR10 .308. I'll leave it on the .308 most of hunting season. However, when I shoot in the back yard I'll be using the silencer on both guns switching back and forth throughout the day.

Lesson learned: Torque the muzzle device to 25ftlb and hand tighten silencer. From what I'm reading I shouldn't have any issues. Thanks for the feedback.

Maybe a question for @Mageever.

My 5/8 x 24 Xeno is bottoming out on my muzzle before it hits the shoulder. Threads too long I guess. I emailed CS but didn't get much of an answer. Short of cutting the barrel, would a spacer work and if so does DA make a spacer? I can't find anything. I need probably 1/16" - 1/8" thick and stacking a bunch of shims seems less than ideal.

That is a bummer. Have you found a resolution? I'm curious how many others have encountered this. What do you have for an upper/barrel?

It's a SW MP10. I asked Ecco to make a spacer so we'll see how that goes. No one seems to make one for 5/8 x 24 that I could find. Even DA referred me to another company but it was a 1/2 x 28 spacer. If that doesn't work, probably have the barrel trimmed slightly but that's a more expensive solution so hopefully the spacer works.

Please excuse my ignorance but is it common for a muzzle device not to completely cover the threads? The few AR's I have installed muzzle devices on have all had crush washers so it hasn't been an issue. Since the Xeno doesn't require a crush washer is it "normal" to have threads showing? I don't know how comfortable I am with that..... It may make me reconsider the Xeno platform for my DDMK18 and Wilson Combat AR10. (These are the two primary firearms I'll have my Nomad on.)

………

Our CS guys probably didn't have much of an answer because they'd need to know all of the techy details and they probably didn't have those at hand.  First off, how long are the threads on your rifle?  Do you have something to accurately measure them?  We plan for muzzle devices that are longer than average for this product so this is very anomalous.  It's weird to have any longer than .60-.62", which is the normal spec.  

It can be one of three things:  Threads were cut too long on your barrel, the Xeno threads were cut too short, or a little bit of both.  Email me and I can walk you through it.  If it's our Xeno device we can certainly replace it if there's an issue there.  We also have some shims from our old kits that are .1" long that my be just enough to remedy the situation.



Hi gjl60.  Welcome to the club! Sounds like you got it.  Yeah, if you torque down the muzzle device to 25-30 ft-lb, then the only counter-torque action (in left hand direction) will be when you tighten the suppressor on.  

We don't have a torque spec for that left-hand tightening of the suppressor onto the mount because it's a fairly straight forward experience when you have it in hand.  Start out light with a little lube on the threads and taper and keep snugging it down well and you'll find that a good snugging that requires a bit more un-snugging to overcome the stiction will be self-correcting when you go at it too hard.  And even then, you're nowhere near 25-30 ft-lbs.  If I remember right, most people are capable of 4-6 ft-lbs max on a good hand tightening.  I'm not saying that's what you should do, just framing the scale of the two.  When you tighten the suppressor on the mount at a couple foot-pounds, it's not going to overcome the torque of that muzzle device.  Exceptions occur when threads are cut loosely by the machinist and/or there's a lot of vibration and thermal expansion going on. That's when you break out the Rockset or some high temp thread locker.


Todd Magee
Dead Air Engineering

Now you're gonna make me go test this with my torque wrench.

I appreciate your response. Clears up the few questions I had. Thanks!

I knew somebody would!

You could fixture the Xeno adapter in a socket and then see how tightly you can turn the can one-handed.  I did that with a Wolverine a long time ago.  I was surprised how low it was (like, 4.5 ft-lbs or something, I can't remember).  The knurl on that can made a giant difference!

The threads are long. About .75" measured with calipers. I'm going to see about getting a spacer made.

I wonder if you could use something like this as a spacer (tightened all the way to the shoulder, so not as a jam nut), or if it could pose problems with tolerances: https://rexsilentium.com/GEN2-Rifle-Muzzle-Lock-Nut-p150960002

Anybody use a xeno brake on an sbr without a can yet? How bad is the concussion? I usually use flash hiders because concussion is annoying. I'm not planning on shooting with a can 100% of the time and I like the way the brake looks and we all know looks are everything.

Please make a version compatible with the Silencerco Saker thread pattern.

If no one else answers I'll try to swap one onto an 11.5" 5.56 upper or 8.5" 300blk (preference?) next weekend if I can.

@xram

11.5 556

Thanks man!

I'd love to hear your opinion of this as well!

I tried both the brake and the flash hider on the 11.5" yesterday and today at two different ranges. In both cases it was hard to tell a difference in noise - they're both loud as hell unsuppressed. There was a noticeable increase in concussion with the brake - not terrible but a bit annoying especially when I had my muzzle in the box at the outdoor range.

I like the brake on longer barrels - it replaced a PA AFAB on one of my 16"s and performs similarly - but I'm going to keep the flash hider on the 11.5" at least until they come out with a blast shield to screw on over the brake.

Basically, it's not like three-port-brake obnoxious, but you will feel it more than the flash hider. They both unsurprisingly suck to shoot unsuppressed indoors or in a box outdoors.

Hope that helps!

Thanks for reporting on that Xram!  

No problem, I was curious too.



This got me thinking. I have a Tikka Lite in 6.5CM that I want to thread for use with the Xeno system, but it doesn't have enough meat on the barrel for a proper shoulder with 5/8 threading (probably about .660" where I'd cut it). Since the xeno brake doesn't have to be timed, can I just have them cut some long threads, index the brake off the muzzle, and rocksett it in place? Might be easier than trying to add a shoulder, but I'm pretty far from a gunsmith...

……...

Thanks for the suggestions. I'm not opposed to direct thread but I only have 2 cans between a number of hosts, so the brakes are appealing primarily for ease of swapping. In terms of threads, I'm going to go with 1/2" on our .243 Tikka, but I would rather keep the barrel thickness on the 6.5 if I can.

Really, I was just wondering whether the Xeno mounts are machined to accommodate snugging to the muzzle if a shoulder isn't available. Maybe @mageever can comment on that.

Got $$$ burning a hole in my pocket waiting for adapters and muzzle devices.

Any word on thread protectors for xeno muzzle devices?

I'd love a flash can that screws over the brake and adds a little back pressure (sort of like how the KX5 works?) so that I don't have to fiddle with the gas system when running unsuppressed. Not sure if this is possible, especially without running afoul of the BATFE, but it would be cool if DA can science it up.

Is there a list of compact cans the xeno will work with? I know it will work on the vox and yhm cans but I'm having trouble narrowing down any more. Sorry I'm a bit if a noob when it comes to this.

ETA*** Started a new thread. No need to reply here

Any hope of getting these for the wolverine?

So...  after reading thru this thread, and seeing as I just bought a Nomad 30 TI...  Which Xeno should I get, the brake or the flash hider?

Brake. I believe it acts as a sacrificial baffle.

……..

20 inch .223/5.56, 20 and 24 inch 6.5 Creedmoor (gas and bolt gun), and a 16 and 20 inch .308 (gas and bolt).

………

I bought this



To go with the Nomad TI that I bought.

Can the xeno handle hard use, or is it best served in a hunting or spr role? I can’t seem to find anything that would indicate it can’t do anything the keymo can, but I’m new to this stuff anyways

Yes it can definitely handle hard use.  I believe the guidance I've given in the past (and to our Marketing guys) is that it's definitely for hard use, but I'd draw the line where you have a large amount of thermal swings and vibration. The added detent retention of the KeyMount system wins out.  If you have to leave the can on a machine gun for example and it's repeatedly heating up, cooling down, and getting a lot of vibration, then the KeyMount will be less likely to begin to loosen.  And that's seriously splitting hairs.  Like if you limp wrist them on, then either can loosen.  

But seriously, this is not an discrete "it works or it doesn't".  You need to understand your usage.  Like, would you really run a muzzle brake on a 240B?  That will eventually fail before the can will.  The flash hider was designed for this application.  A flash hider will also erode a blast baffle faster than a brake, so take the time to understand the limits of the suppressor you're mounting it too and align them with your usage requirement.  

One of our greatest concerns with the Xeno system was if the brake would "balloon" when it got glowing rad hot.  This is what happens to a competitors product with just a few mags full auto.  It swells and you can't slide the can back off the brake.  We designed the Xeno Omni brake with enough material that it's not going to do this outside of a belt fed type setup.  And again, people need to be realistic about how they set up their equipment and what they're using it for.

The other big concern is that flash hider erosion effect.  We designed the Xeno to keep a proper amount of distance between the tip of the muzzle device and the blast baffle.  Slamming it up against the blast baffle like, ahem, that Qne company does, will limit you to using only that muzzle device that it was designed for.  They're into limited use, hunting type usage, so it actually works for them. The Xeno system will work very well with most any suppressor because of this, but just know that if you have a thin-walled blast baffle and it isn't Stellite or maybe Inconel, then you'll see the suppressor have a problem way before the mount does.

Todd Magee
Dead Air Engineering

Amazing response Todd. Thank you

I see what you did there ;)

Xeno mount and brake ordered today from Hansohn. Nomad L is out of jail and will be picked up when I get home from vacation. My 6.5 C gas gun awaits!!!

What ever happened with coming out with more muzzle devices, also any word on any other making a xeno compatible device?