I recently posted about my father who had expressed interest in a muzzleloader to take advantage of earlier seasons and warmer weather, as at his age he is not wild about the colder weather that “regular” rifle season for deer brings.

Needless to say, ARFCOM completely and totally hooked it up. Great input and advice from this forum. A fellow member even sent me a Thompson Center Black Diamond for my father to try out. Wow!

Anyways, we finally made it to the range and had a blast! However, it is currently set up for percussion/musket caps. After my father inadvertently purchased #11 primers, I was able to track down some RWS musket caps locally.

While these ignited well and the gun shot accurately for our skill level, we both noticed that the caps do not fit snug on the nipple. To the point that if the gun was in any position besides nearly directly horizontal the cap would fall off.

Is this normal?

Nipples & caps come in various sizes, find the correct “nipple” to cap combo.

Here is example , this particular nipple uses #11 sized caps

Attached File


Check out the various nipples

https://possibleshop.com/s-s-nipples.html

Contact the generous member and find out what they use.

No 10 caps are normally used on revolvers, no 11 are generally for rifles.

Alternatively if you know the thread pitch of the nipple you can buy a different one. Then you'll know what size caps you need.

You can also sometimes snug up a lose cap by gently squeezing the sides in.

Squeeze them , and then try # 10 caps .

Get the 209 primer adapter.

Attached File


These are the musket caps that we are using that are “too big,” although seemingly perfectly reliable and functional. In the little bit of research I’ve done it doesn’t look like there are different sizes for musket caps. Unless I’m missing something?

The #11 caps were WAY too tiny to fit the nipple currently installed on the muzzleloader. I assume that #10s are even smaller?

I will see if these caps are malleable enough to simply squeeze on to snug up the fit. Otherwise, I guess I will have to see if I can find the right replacement nipple that will thread into this breach plug to “convert” it to #11 primers.

I’d like to convert it to 209 primers but of course Thompson Center discontinued that conversion kit for some reason?

Look at “Track of the Wolf” website. Call them up

The nipple that is installed on this rifle is far too large for #11 primers. The manual mentions both #11 and musket caps. My guess is that it was switched to the musket caps and the nipple for #11s, likely included from the factory, was misplaced.

The 209 adapters for the Black Diamond are easy to find but my reading seems to indicate that the striker assembly is not the same (i.e. will not work with the currently installed striker for musket caps). The kit for full on 209 conversion of this muzzleloader shows discontinued on T/C’s website, along with every other site that I can find it on.

The 209 conversion kits aren't always a step in the right direction. Yes they do throw a ton more flame and will go boom very reliably but so do the regular caps if you keep the gun clean. Heck, a properly tuned flintlock lockwork will always go boom if properly maintained and primed.

Years ago I bought a 209 kit for my Knight rifle and found that my group sizes increased with the 209s vs the #11 caps. From my reading the thought was that the increased blast from the 209 actually pushed the entire powder charge and projectile forward a bit before the powder lit off. This caused somewhat random ignition conditions which led to the groups opening up. I can't be 100% certain that was the reason but I can confirm the groups were better with #11 caps.

Only reason that I’m considering a conversion is that I don’t want a musket caps falling off while my dad is sitting in his blind and have him not notice, pull up on a deer, and.. click.

I called him and asked him to see if he could squeeze the sides of the musket cap to get them to stay put a little better. If that works we will keep with that. We only shot the gun at 25 and 50 yards but it went bang every time and was plenty accurate.

CCI #11. They weren’t even close to fitting.

Guys,

He has a musket cap nipple! Changing brands of No. 11 caps will not help him.

OP I suggest either getting a No. 11 nipple or another Musket cap nipple.

I bet you could squeeze the musket caps enough to get them to stay on.

I'm in agreement that the 209 primer conversion isn't better, if you get reliable ignition with a No 11 or a musket cap.

There is a reason shooters generally get better accuracy with a small rifle primer than a large one, and in some cases, small pistol primers work even better than small rifle primers (.22 Hornet).  You want enough flash to reliably ignite the charge, but too much isn't better. Too much can cause the powder and bullet to begin to move before the powder fully ignites and the small differences in volume and pressure at the moment of ignition cause small differences in burn rate that cause small differences in velocity, which impacts accuracy.

If you are an experimental type, load a ball with no powder, then set off a 209 primer and see how far the ball is pushed up the barrel compared to a No 11 or a musket cap.  You'll get a similar difference with a powder charge in the barrel, with the powder moving down the bore before it ignites.

Musket caps can easily be pinched to give you a snug fit on the nipple.