I have been doing transfers for the most part but every now and then ill come across some deals for whatever gun and buy a bunch and just blow them out for a crazy price just to make a few bucks but mainly to get some customers to utilize me for transfers.

but lately i been noticing more and more calls from ATF for trace requests on those guns.  Is it a bad thing to have trace requests constantly? seems like every month i have atleast 2-3 sometimes. But they all fall back to those guns i blew out just as a way to drum up some business.

Yeah, that is metric shitload. Surprised nobody has paid you a visit. I would make sure all transactions involving these firearms are golden.

They are good. No issues with nics. Some are ccw (so no nics) so all good on my end. It just seems like these guns are being resold and they are ending up in bad hands or some shit. I’m just assuming that since they don’t tell you what the trace is for. The only trace I ever found info for was a girl buying ar15s all over and she was trafficking them.

I figured it wasn’t right with traces like that. The sad thing is. Most of these are people you would never think would be associated in that sense in any way.

Have you matched the traces to the buyers to establish a pattern?

Yeah it’s always those guns I blew out. But it’s not EVERY single buyer of those guns and it’s not the same customer over n over either. But it’s only those sets that I blew out. Not normal transfers I do etc.

Obviously I haven’t done anything illegal but you know In the back of your head you have that thought like it’s not right. I haven’t done that kinda blow out sale in 2 months now.

Curious what type of guns were getting blown out?

Usually a certain cross section of society, is attracted to certain brands of firearms.

they usually don't care what they get but bang is bang....so certain end up bought more often.

Good luck -

How many traces to how many sales/transfers?

I've had 1 trace for the 3,800 sales/transfers I've had.

Prob cause your not a border state, lots of traces here down south.

Curious as well. Are we talking killer prices that work out higher than $400 or under $400?  What's the general price range of your blow out pricing that you get trace requests from?

Also, are you store front only or web only, gun show/home all of the above?

That’s a lot dude. I used to sell Jimenez and only at gun shows and had 2 or 3 traces a year on them. Huge profit margin and would sell 20 or more in a weekend. Maybe you’re blowing them out so cheap that guys are flipping them for a quick buck.

Yea I think that’s it too. I was selling maybe $25-35 final cheaper than anyone else on backpage etc. so I could see the whole flipping but not much profit. Also I thought about the whole type of people buying but it’s all older well respected type people. No gang bangers etc. (I don’t do business with that kind anyway)

Yeah I am a border state so that’s what else I thought I could attribute it to. I was under the impression that trace requests were due to the fact the gun was used in scrims or stolen or something and the LEO investigating asked the Atf to trace it etc.

I don’t consider myself high volume at all. So let’s say in a months time maybe 125-150 transfers total?

I’m a small ffl and I operate out of my existing business. I kinda consider myself “home based” as I’m small and not a store front where I stock inventory. I only mainly do transfers and sell some used stuff I find here and there at a good price to resell. And like I stated the occasional new stuff I buy and blow out at just like $10 profit per unit.

I don’t know how to multi quote so I hope I answered most questions from everyone.

1. Sell high volumes of cheap firearms.
2. Sell them on Backpage.
3. Profit.
And you are surprised that you get ATF trace requests?
Backpage is for hookers and selling stolen shit, not for buying firearms. It has to be the smarmiest media venue possible. Maybe only exceeded by writing "Jennings gats yo.....$149 call JayRock" on the wall of a public toilet.

Ever heard of a straw purchaser?
Homies with doo rags, neck tattoos and a criminal record are smart enough to send someone else to buy their guns.

ATF isn't going to run a trace on a gun not in the possession of LE. The requesting agency may have recovered the firearm at a crime scene or simply at a traffic stop. It could also have been reported stolen and recovered. They won't tell you.

I do around 170-180 transfers a month. I get maybe 1 or 2 traces A YEAR.

The only thing you've drummed up by selling cheap guns on Backpage is.............ATF scrutiny. Expect a compliance inspection soon (and often).

Here in Az there’s a shit Ton if dealers selling on there (bp)

I do understand when you say gangbangers will send other people to do straw purchases but I haven’t had that problem. The people who I do
Mostly business with (even those guns I sold cheap) were all older of respectable people. People that have careers, older collectors etc. I honestly think you would not consider anyone a shady type of person. 98% of all my transfer clients are all repeats and ones that are buying stuff from online retailers as well as collecting firearms like nice ak’s and more hard to find (not impossible to find) at good deals etc.

I don’t primarily sell on backpage. But yes I do advertise there like every other damn dealer here in Az. Check out bp Arizona and you will see what I mean. Every damn dealer advertises on there. I prefer the word of mouth from my transfer clients which is why I’m able to have the volume I have.

I obviously don’t want to be scrutinized by Atf but it is what it is. And I def agree about backpage being the shady ness black hole. But there are still good people looking for deals on there. I’ve had people BITCH about transferring multiple firearms (10 or so) at one time and get mad that I charge them $10 each one after the first. ($15 for first and $10 for each after same transaction) They expect it for free since it’s “not much work” in their mind. And I’ve had a few even tell me that! The firearms business has some really Uber cheap bastards.

I think I’ll stick to transfers for now until I get my sot and work on some nfa stuff as well.

I’ve heard that Backpage is big in Phoenix for legitimate stuff like guns and ammo and just not for hookers and blow. I truly feel that there’s more to the story here.

Yet you are getting multiple trace requests every month on a pretty small sales volume.
Either your older respectable people aren't really respectable or you're a poor judge of age and character.
If ATF determines your "time to crime" is too short or too frequent you can expect ATF up your butt pronto. You may be required to report ALL handgun transfers, you'll certainly get a compliance inspection every year and they will look for a single error, mistake or omission to put you out of business.

"2-3" trace requests on 125 transfers each month is a pretty telling statistic.

Well...........SOMEONE IS SHADY.

I looked.
Every dealer in AZ DOESN'T advertise on Backpage.

What it is? Good people don't read Backpage.
You reap what you sow.......and planting seeds on Backpage gets you Backpage buyers.

You seem to have a lot of drama in your gun business.  This forum is the last place I would air questionable practices that would create exposure for the BATFE to investigate you.  JMO

Geeze, I have not had a trace request for quite a while now.  My last one was in the summer last year.

Anyone else get the vibe of a DU/media troll the more OP posts?

No.

Agreed. No.  
I think there’s something going on that we don’t see, but could be figured out easily with all the info. I’m sure there is a pattern.

what is a DU? and no im not a fuckin media troll

i asked a question to an ffl discussion subforum for other ffls to give their input.

it was a figure of speech.

also, you stated above that ATF might require to report all Handgun Transfers in cases like this sometimes , have you seen that happen before with an ffl? How do they report that? Just curious.

A dealer on another forum mentioned that it happened to him.
I don't know the process or paperwork, but I presume its just ATFs way of burdening a dealer with more paperwork that he could mess up.
Such reporting is often "voluntary".....meaning the dealer agreed to it in order to keep his FFL.

That's the kind of logic I'd expect from bat crap crazy liberals. If you pass a background and meet the legal requirements, you can buy a gun PERIOD. This BS of where you live or your race being a factor is total Bull spit and you know it.  The person either meets legal hoops or does not. Making a legal judgement on the basis of method of advertising is just plain wrong. You're jumping to the same conclusions as idiots screaming about "buying a gun on the internet".

Sorry bub, perception is reality. If you advertise on Backpage expect Backpage quality buyers.

No shit Sherlock. That has fuck all to do with the OP getting trace requests. Obviously some of his buyers are reselling the guns and they are being recovered by the police. Apparently you don't understand what a gun trace is.

Who the fuck mentioned race or where someone lives?
Try rereading the thread.

 
No one is making a legal judgement, just offering opinions......just like you. The difference is the ones offering their knowledgeable opinions are FFL's. Unlike yourself.

As an FFL holder, I don't have to sell a gun to someone just because they pass the background check, I have refused sale after running the 4473 a few times over the years due to attitude and statements made by the prospective purchaser.

A FFL holder can refuse sale for any reason he/she deems and are expected to pay attention to the person attempting to purchase even after they pass the BG check.

I do wonder how that may play out depending on the current SCOTUS case related the refusal of sale of cakes of all things may impact the ability to refuse sale for other stores(FFL)

Wedding cakes are not federally regulated items that require a government back ground check to purchase.  FLL's are expected to be prudent on who they sell to, even if they have passed the background check.  It is up to the FFL to assess statements, behavior and just general feelings about prospective gun purchasers.

Aimless we are not talking about race, nationality or any of that.  If you do it for a while, you can start to get a feel for some types of people, ironically, I have never had a refuse sale with a black or a Hispanic person, albeit, we don't have a lot of blacks or Hispanics living in Montana, but during the harvest season we do have some Hispanics and they buy long guns every once in a while.

We are a face to face state, so most of those who are prohibited, buy from the local ad's in our nickle papers and don't contact FFL's to make gun purchases.

I am one of those type of people who is careful, but will take anybody's money who is legal to purchase, like I said, I have not had a trace request since last summer.

It will play out like any other discrimination case. Discrimination being the keyword. Anyone can generally refuse service to a customer for non-discriminatory reasons.

This.
The Civil Rights Act of 1964 prohibits discrimination based on race, color, religion, sex or national origin.

Feel free to deny otherwise lawful sales because you don't like a buyers attitude, hairstyle, saggy britches or smell.

And I do.

Telling me what you are going to go out and "shoot up" is probably not going to bode well.

That's an extraordinary amount of trace requests given your volume.

I'd quit with the back page ads ASAP.

I spent a few years managing compliance in a decent sized retail operation, we averaged about 1700-2000 4473's a year.

You're getting more trace requests in a month than we did in a year.

Get familiar with the phase "Time To Crime".

They aren't tracing guns because they're bored, those guns have hit a crime scene somewhere. The speed and frequency in which they're ending up there is going to come back on you.

The fact that you haven't had a visit given the frequency of the traces and your location in a border state amazes me.