Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
BCM
User Panel

Posted: 8/27/2018 3:57:54 PM EDT
For a 308 win while it is supersonic.

If I understand right at longer ranges where the bullet goes sub sonic the style choice may be different.

I usually shoot at 300yds max so I want the most accurate bullet style for that distance.

Thanks
Tom

Edited for caliber
Link Posted: 8/27/2018 4:16:12 PM EDT
[#1]
I guess the best form of evidence is what benchrest shooters chase after. They have gone through trends of using boattail and flatbase so I do not think you will find a definitive answer. The best thing is to try multiple designs.

For very slow or heavy bullets I have personally found flatbase to work better (subsonic or near sub loads). They are much easier to stabilize in marginal twist rates than most boattails in my experience, but I posit that that would be more a factor of the overall length of the bullet than the actual design.

The wish washy but probably correct answer is that you need to try multiple bullets from different manufacturers. However, most people seem to want boattails so I imagine your best results will end up coming from popular boattails. I do not think the style of bullet (flat vs bt) is going to be a major concern for you either way in sub 300 yard shooting.

Boattails would be objectively better at extended distances.
Link Posted: 8/27/2018 4:58:09 PM EDT
[#2]
That is kinda what I figured. Of course the proof is always on the target and I will do my comparison. Just thought someone might have some evidence for one or the other. This is why I handload. Of course then I have to find do flat base like the same jump as bt and the same powder etc. etc.
Thanks for the input.
Link Posted: 8/27/2018 5:10:08 PM EDT
[#3]
Quoted:
For a .308 bullet while it is supersonic.

If I understand right at longer ranges where the bullet goes sub sonic the style choice may be different.

I usually shoot at 300yds max so I want the most accurate bullet style for that distance.

Thanks
Tom
View Quote
What cartridge?
300 yards is still not all that far for a .308 Win. or .30-06.

It will easily be supersonic at that range.
Link Posted: 8/27/2018 5:13:59 PM EDT
[#4]
Link Posted: 8/27/2018 5:16:30 PM EDT
[#5]
Flat base are typically more accurate at shorter ranges.  It is easier for bullet makers to make FB bullets more concentric.   BT bullets have better aerodynamics of course.
Link Posted: 8/27/2018 7:36:03 PM EDT
[#6]
If you don't have a 0.3 MOA rig, go with boattail for ease of loading.
Link Posted: 8/27/2018 7:40:18 PM EDT
[#7]
Link Posted: 8/27/2018 8:06:20 PM EDT
[#8]
@GS5414 About how much do 77gr SMKs jump in an AMU chamber?
Link Posted: 8/27/2018 8:14:50 PM EDT
[#9]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
To 300 yards, probably a flat base bullet, but you'd need a lot of gun and shooter to measure the difference to the accuracy of a comparable boat tail.
View Quote
That.

There's more to the equation than just base shape. Look up "bullet pressure ring" and see if you can figure out how that relates to building an accurate cartridge.
But then, the gun has to be set up to take advantage of it, too.
Link Posted: 8/27/2018 8:58:32 PM EDT
[#10]
Good thread, learned a few things.
Link Posted: 8/27/2018 9:01:34 PM EDT
[#11]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
@GS5414 About how much do 77gr SMKs jump in an AMU chamber?
View Quote
Referencing Mk262, 0.100" new, about 0.113" when the barrel is at the end of it's service life.

Note that barrels with the AMU chamber only have an effective competition life of 2,500 rounds. Going to a Wylde will increase that number to 3,500-4,000 rounds, and a CLE chamber close to 6,000 rounds.

S/F
Link Posted: 8/27/2018 9:04:22 PM EDT
[#12]
Quoted:
For a .308 bullet while it is supersonic.

If I understand right at longer ranges where the bullet goes sub sonic the style choice may be different.

I usually shoot at 300yds max so I want the most accurate bullet style for that distance.

Thanks
Tom
View Quote
Technically, a flat base bullet will be better for what you are thinking of doing.

The loss of BC may not be worth it for you, however.

What level of precision are you needing? I all but guarantee you can reach it with a modern boat tail bullet.

S/F
Link Posted: 8/27/2018 11:32:13 PM EDT
[#13]
What is accurate to you? What are your goals? What kind of conditions will you shoot in?

300 yr stage in f class 223, I shoot 90 gr SMKs when it is windy, 77 gr TMKs when it is calm. 52/53 gr SMKs can be really accurate at 300, but get spanked in the wind. All three have their place.

Failing all else, let The gun tell you what it wants.
Link Posted: 8/28/2018 9:07:17 PM EDT
[#14]
Wow, this is good information and I have learned a few things for sure.

I will post more about the rifle tomorrow when I can get to my notes. I will tell you it is a rem 700 that has been faced and bedded.

It has a 20” Lilja heavy barrel and I ask for a short throat. I will post that tomorrow.

I have been shooting amax 168gr bullets. I had not shot varget until I got this rifle and had very good results until I ran out. Hard to find locally but I will get more. Have also been using IMR 4064 for 30 years and have good results. Just read varget handled temp better. Upper 90’s with 80% humidity.

As to what I want. I only shoot of the bench these days. Also rifle weight is 12#. So I punch paper and would like one hole at 100 and 1moa or less at 300. I know a lot to ask. I have done the 100 yd goal with varget. I use cci standard primers, no crimp, and neck tension is about .003”.I need to order some good brass now. Cases are trimmed, chamfered in out flash hole deburred  on inside. Hornady dies Lyman M die and loaded on rockchucker (68 model) each charge is weighed and seating is measured with stony point .

One question came to mind from the info y’all gave. Which bullet does not erode the barrel as much.

Thanks and keep the information coming

Tom

PS. Forgot to add it’s a 308win short action rem 700
Link Posted: 8/28/2018 10:59:26 PM EDT
[#15]
Link Posted: 8/28/2018 11:24:40 PM EDT
[#16]
There was evidence in the Garand days that flat base bullets reduced barrel life more than boat tail. I'll see if I can copy the article later.

A bullet with a shorter shank should be easier on the throat. Molybdenum disulfide or hexaboron nitride coating will help as well if you don't add gunpowder to regain speed.
Link Posted: 8/28/2018 11:37:19 PM EDT
[#17]
If you want to stretch a 20" legs, sleeker/heavier/slower is the way to go. 178gr AMAX, 175 or 190gr SMK, 185gr Juggernaut.

If you stay light, use the Sierra 2156 Palma or Berger 155.5gr Fullbore.
Link Posted: 8/28/2018 11:39:05 PM EDT
[#18]
Dano, what chamber neck diameter and throat do you use?
Link Posted: 8/29/2018 12:34:45 AM EDT
[#19]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
There was evidence in the Garand days that flat base bullets reduced barrel life more than boat tail. I'll see if I can copy the article later.

A bullet with a shorter shank should be easier on the throat. Molybdenum disulfide or hexaboron nitride coating will help as well if you don't add gunpowder to regain speed.
View Quote
Other way around. Machine guns saw increased bore wear with boattail bullets.
Link Posted: 8/29/2018 11:20:46 AM EDT
[#20]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Flat base are typically more accurate at shorter ranges.  It is easier for bullet makers to make FB bullets more concentric.   BT bullets have better aerodynamics of course.
View Quote
Not to mention greater bearing surface.  Flat-base FTW at 100.
Link Posted: 9/1/2018 10:44:09 AM EDT
[#21]
Well, I have a lot of shooting to do. Also, I am loading waaaaaaaay to short. I need to close that up.

Are Y'all single loading to get .003 off lands? My chamber is 2.14 to ogive. I will have to do my homework and report back.

Thanks everyone for the info.

I do have a question. Is the pressure ring the area of the shank that is at the junction of the neck and shoulder or is it on the bullet no matter what?

Thanks
Tom
Link Posted: 9/1/2018 3:15:51 PM EDT
[#22]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

I do have a question. Is the pressure ring the area of the shank that is at the junction of the neck and shoulder or is it on the bullet no matter what?

Thanks
Tom
View Quote
Pressure rings are an artifact of bullet making. When the core is swaged into the jacket, some of the jacket is upset a little where it's not supported as much by the die, right at the base. It's really only a thing on flat base bullets, but I've seen some BTs with them. Not consistently, though.

Most bullets have had the pressure ring polished off, as it's only about .0003" or so.

The accuracy trick, which really requires everything else in the gun to be nearly perfectly square and concentric, uses that pressure ring in the neck to help center the bullet in the throat.

It often doesn't work with factory guns.

These are some really good bullets for chasing accuracy work.

And here's an interesting article about pressure rings.
Link Posted: 9/16/2018 5:45:02 PM EDT
[#23]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Wow, this is good information and I have learned a few things for sure.

I will post more about the rifle tomorrow when I can get to my notes. I will tell you it is a rem 700 that has been faced and bedded.

It has a 20" Lilja heavy barrel and I ask for a short throat. I will post that tomorrow.

I have been shooting amax 168gr bullets. I had not shot varget until I got this rifle and had very good results until I ran out. Hard to find locally but I will get more. Have also been using IMR 4064 for 30 years and have good results. Just read varget handled temp better. Upper 90's with 80% humidity.

As to what I want. I only shoot of the bench these days. Also rifle weight is 12#. So I punch paper and would like one hole at 100 and 1moa or less at 300. I know a lot to ask. I have done the 100 yd goal with varget. I use cci standard primers, no crimp, and neck tension is about .003".I need to order some good brass now. Cases are trimmed, chamfered in out flash hole deburred  on inside. Hornady dies Lyman M die and loaded on rockchucker (68 model) each charge is weighed and seating is measured with stony point .

One question came to mind from the info y'all gave. Which bullet does not erode the barrel as much.

Thanks and keep the information coming

Tom

PS. Forgot to add it's a 308win short action rem 700
View Quote
Try 8208 XBR, it is the new Varget, and is a bit shorter so it throws better.  I love it.
Link Posted: 9/16/2018 7:08:14 PM EDT
[#24]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Try 8208 XBR, it is the new Varget, and is a bit shorter so it throws better.  I love it.
View Quote
More like Benchmark.
Close Join Our Mail List to Stay Up To Date! Win a FREE Membership!

Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!

You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.


By signing up you agree to our User Agreement. *Must have a registered ARFCOM account to win.
Top Top