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Posted: 1/14/2021 8:29:38 PM EDT
I've got a 10.5" suppressed SBR with a switchable gas block I'd like a subsonic load for. I don't expect/want it to cycle the gun. I'll just shoot it with the gas system off, like a bolt gun, Hollywood click/thud kind of quiet.


Hodgdon's Trail Boss data only lists one charge weight (4.0 gr) for a 55 gr FMJ bullet in .223 Remington, predicting a velocity of 1074 fps.

For a 55 gr VMax seated to 2.230", Quickload predicts 1104 fps out of a 10.5" barrel, with a 47.7% case fill at 4.0 gr.

I loaded a few 55 gr VMax bullets with 4.0 gr and they were supersonic. Eyeballing the case it looked about half full.

I am planning to try 3.5 gr next (QL predicts 1010 fps and 41.8% case fill). Does this sound reasonable? I've read that going below about 40% case fill in bottleneck rifle cartridges is a bad idea because of inconsistent ignition and burn pattern concerns.
Link Posted: 1/14/2021 9:00:43 PM EDT
[#1]
Heavier bullets or a 22lr conversion kit.

It took me around 8 grains to make a 125gr 308 subsonic, so half that charge in much less case with ¼ the bullet weight will still be pretty fast.

I concur that you ought not go to extremely low case fill. You could use a buffer media, I think cream-of-wheat is fairly well proven, to hold the charge in place.
Link Posted: 1/14/2021 10:54:16 PM EDT
[#2]
Link Posted: 1/15/2021 3:22:13 PM EDT
[#3]
Thanks

Think I'll try 3.5 gr and see what I get
Link Posted: 1/16/2021 8:21:08 PM EDT
[#4]
Link Posted: 1/16/2021 8:59:30 PM EDT
[#5]
In addition to saving powder and barrel life while maintaining better precision, I like the sound of a straight pull AR.
Link Posted: 1/16/2021 9:12:51 PM EDT
[#6]
I used 3.1gr of Titegroup with no case filler when making a few 55gr subs in my 10.5”.  Worked (and sounded) just fine.

I understand .22lr is more practical but it was for fun and I wanted to see the results.  It’s not like I’m shooting hundreds of rounds a week this way or anything.
Link Posted: 1/16/2021 9:24:17 PM EDT
[#7]
I tried building .223 subs several times.

I could get them quiet... but could never get them to fly straight. Always hit paper sideways.

Its a lot easier to just screw a can on a 10/22.
Link Posted: 1/16/2021 9:38:25 PM EDT
[#8]
I have used trailboss and titegroup for 55gr subs and I have just tore a silencer to hell with all the baffle strikes

I would recommend going with a 22lr
Link Posted: 1/16/2021 10:27:14 PM EDT
[#9]
Thanks

I always test new loads without the suppressor to verify they are stable. With the 4.0 gr Trail Boss 55 Vmax in my 1-in-7 twist 10.5" AR they all went into a 50 yard target point first. I wasn't shooting for accuracy testing, just put my elbows on a bench and had a ~3" group with a red dot sight.

Will try some 3.5 gr rounds tomorrow.


Also, these days a 223 reload costs a lot less than 22LR subs, so there's that.
Link Posted: 1/18/2021 4:30:25 PM EDT
[#10]
Link Posted: 1/18/2021 4:52:25 PM EDT
[#11]
Link Posted: 1/18/2021 7:17:10 PM EDT
[#12]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

I shot some of the 55 gr. FMJ / 3.5 gr. Trailboss loads through the 20" 1:7 AR15 today.  These seemed to shoot just as well as the supersonic loads, only with the subs hitting about 5" lower.  What was interesting was that these also appeared to be hitting not so straight.  Not a full keyhole, but definitely not the nice round holes I was getting from the VMAX or from the supersonic 55s.  I just find it odd the group was just as good as (actually slightly better than) the supersonic loads.  I shot 10 unsuppressed, and then shot 10 through a Liberty Mystic.  The suppressed rounds grouped slightly better, and sounded really quiet.  Nothing like shooting subs through a long barrel and a large can.  

I'm still a little put off that the FMJs seem to yaw a bit. I understand having issues with a slow twist barrel, but a 1:7 should run those just fine at any velocity.  I could likely shoot a "better" bullet and see if that helps. But shooting a premium bullet for what is essentially a .22LR seems to be counterproductive.
View Quote
I've seen similar at 100yds with 50gr VMAX launched with 4.0-5.0gr Red Dot at ~1500fps.

Somewhere in Bryan Litz's Applied Ballistics is graphs of the stability of bullets as they decelerate. The transonic zone of 1000-1300fps is where the wave goes back over the bullet and stability sharply decreases, then increases in subsonic. Launching just under the speed of sound is different, but I imagine getting close may still be wonky.
Link Posted: 1/18/2021 7:32:10 PM EDT
[#13]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

Yes, however...

I went out playing with some more subs today.  Last time I was single-loading the rounds.  Today I fed them from a magazine.  I am reminded that the charging handle is really not in an ideal location for a "bolt action" handle.  You have to break cheek weld and shift position.  If you're prone, you really have to change up your body position.  Not to mention the CH is kind of flimsy.  If one were to operate it over and over with vigor, I can see it getting bent and tying up the action.  

That, and you really don't have much mechanical advantage over the bolt with the CH.  Not like the (relatively) long lever arm you get with a traditional bolt action.  Not an issue until you have a case that's semi- stuck in the chamber and doesn't want to come out.  

I think if I were to set up an AR as a manually operated straight-pull rifle, I would use a side-charging bolt carrier with a big charging knob.  The Brownells copy of the AR180 seems like a good compromise in this regard.  Just thinking out loud.  

View Quote
Aye.

With low pressure rounds, you shouldn't have any stickiness from the chamber. I only have from powder residue on the bolt tail.

The Brits pretty well figured the ergonomics a while ago.
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