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Posted: 9/30/2020 6:40:32 AM EDT
[#1]
Laser engraving would be what you would need.
Not sure what one costs, but that's typically how it gets done. |
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Posted: 9/30/2020 6:43:35 AM EDT
[#2]
That’s what I’m looking for, but the options are endless for laser. I’m curious about anyone’s actual set up, if they like it, what they’d change, and ball park prices.
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Posted: 9/30/2020 6:48:52 AM EDT
[#3]
I work in the "marking" industry. We make marking equipment for industry around the globe including numerous firearm/accessory manufacturers.
Lots of factors go into what you need. Lasers are a choice but expensive. Roll marks and Hand stamps are another. Most manufacturers have moved to programmable dot peen stamping machines. Budget and volume are the biggest factor. Dm sent. |
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Posted: 9/30/2020 6:52:59 AM EDT
[#4]
I’ll keep an eye out for your dm, you sound like the guy for the job.
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Posted: 9/30/2020 7:24:41 PM EDT
[#5]
Quoted: I just finished my interview for my 07 ffl yesterday, and we talked about being able to mark the stuff I manufacture. I’m trying to figure out what you guys use, or would use in an ideal world? Most of what I’ll be marking for a while will be ar15 receivers, and other smaller parts. Rather than having to get a variance for someone else to mark for me, I’d rather be able to do it in house. You do not necessarily need a variance to have someone mark for you. For example, on AR-15 lowers I send them out for marking BEFORE making them into firearms. |
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Posted: 10/1/2020 7:07:16 AM EDT
[#6]
How about something that’s already complete, like a cz scorpion? Have them engrave it before you modify it?
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Posted: 10/4/2020 2:04:05 PM EDT
[#7]
I use another friendly SOT who charges me 25 bucks to engrave on his big burn your eyes out laser thingy. Being it retails for 40k. I did the math and would need to engrave my maximum for 32 years to pay it off.
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Posted: 10/4/2020 2:16:23 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I use another friendly SOT who charges me 25 bucks to engrave on his big burn your eyes out laser thingy. Being it retails for 40k. I did the math and would need to engrave my maximum for 32 years to pay it off. Programmable dot peen is what you seek. |
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Posted: 10/5/2020 12:33:52 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Thats about what we retail lasers for. Programmable dot peen is what you seek. Except it looks like something a child did, it's not very visually appealing. I cringe every time I get a gun marked like that by the importer. |
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Posted: 10/5/2020 6:46:35 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Thats about what we retail lasers for. Programmable dot peen is what you seek. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I use another friendly SOT who charges me 25 bucks to engrave on his big burn your eyes out laser thingy. Being it retails for 40k. I did the math and would need to engrave my maximum for 32 years to pay it off. Programmable dot peen is what you seek. It's worth 25 bucks to me. Plus I get to bs with him for awhile. |
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Posted: 10/5/2020 6:54:19 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Except it looks like something a child did, it's not very visually appealing. I cringe every time I get a gun marked like that by the importer. eta: Using the correct equipment and settings the dot peen will hard to distinguish from lasers/roll marks and other indenting equipment. We sell them all and have been for almost 200years. Many high end and high volume manufacturers use our equipment. Every single one of you have something in your house marked by our equipment and most will have a firearm that was marked using our equipment. Most manufacturers have moved away from roll marks due to cost and time. Lasers for the same reason along with consistency. Almost everyone is moving to dot peen. There are some exceptions mainly due to noise constraints. These customers tend to look at automated scribers.   Eta2: not best example but you can see the difference is these two dot peen marks. A quick dirty mark at the bottom may be what your expectation is of dot peen. But you can move your dots much closer to give you a continuous mark like the top line. These are variables effect mark quality and timing. if your worried send us a piece and I'll do a sample mark for you using a dozen different options. You can see for yourself.  |
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Posted: 10/5/2020 7:32:22 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Multiple high end gun manufacturers use programmable dot peen. eta: Using the correct equipment and settings the dot peen will hard to distinguish from lasers/roll marks and other indenting equipment. We sell them all and have been for almost 200years. Many high end and high volume manufacturers use our equipment. Every single one of you have something in your house marked by our equipment and most will have a firearm that was marked using our equipment. Most manufacturers have moved away from roll marks due to cost and time. Lasers for the same reason along with consistency. Almost everyone is moving to dot peen. There are some exceptions mainly due to noise constraints. These customers tend to look at automated scribers. https://i.imgur.com/cNOvath.jpg https://i.imgur.com/xTJSwGq.jpg Eta2: not best example but you can see the difference is these two dot peen marks. A quick dirty mark at the bottom may be what your expectation is of dot peen. But you can move your dots much closer to give you a continuous mark like the top line. These are variables effect mark quality and timing. if your worried send us a piece and I'll do a sample mark for you using a dozen different options. You can see for yourself. https://i.imgur.com/HVXGRdP.jpg I did not know that level of detail (resolution?) could be achieved, thank you for the lesson. 
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Posted: 10/5/2020 8:15:43 AM EDT
[#13]
I’ve been down this road too.
I ended up doing the math and decided to use Tar Heel for all my engraving. They do great work. Now for the lowers that I currently have in production I went the variance route. |
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Posted: 12/6/2020 9:13:49 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I’ve been down this road too. I ended up doing the math and decided to use Tar Heel for all my engraving. They do great work. Now for the lowers that I currently have in production I went the variance route. I actually ended up buying my own laser. I figure if I’m having trouble finding a local engraver, other people are too, and I can use it as a source of income as well. |
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Posted: 12/6/2020 9:24:29 PM EDT
[#15]
Quoted: I actually ended up buying my own laser. I figure if I’m having trouble finding a local engraver, other people are too, and I can use it as a source of income as well. Which laser did you end up with and why? I have been looking at San Antonio Laser lately. I would like to have one in the shop before spring. |
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Posted: 12/6/2020 11:05:16 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Which laser did you end up with and why? I have been looking at San Antonio Laser lately. I would like to have one in the shop before spring. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I actually ended up buying my own laser. I figure if I’m having trouble finding a local engraver, other people are too, and I can use it as a source of income as well. Which laser did you end up with and why? I have been looking at San Antonio Laser lately. I would like to have one in the shop before spring. @zackjsimpson I have the same questions as SteelSC @sorionc Does the engraving system you posted about come in a format that someone with a decent at home shop and access to 120/240 power could setup or is it something that requires a true industrial setting with space, extra pieces of equipment and a 3 or 4 phase power supply? |
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Posted: 12/7/2020 8:07:53 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @zackjsimpson I have the same questions as SteelSC @sorionc Does the engraving system you posted about come in a format that someone with a decent at home shop and access to 120/240 power could setup or is it something that requires a true industrial setting with space, extra pieces of equipment and a 3 or 4 phase power supply? I actually bought an inexpensive eBay fiber laser to get me started and see if it was something I could learn to run. Being small scale as I am right now I couldn’t justify SA laser. It was 2500 dollars for a 20 watt fiber. It’s 18x24, runs on 110v and uses usb to connect to my laptop. I have run it right on my desk, but it will eventually be on its own stand. I’ve learned a lot on it already, and have engraved a hand full of AR lowers, and an 870 receiver already with the typical nfa stuff. In a perfect world, I would have stepped up to a 50 watt, but if you’re not doing mass production, a 20 watt will deep engrave aluminum in about 3 minutes to beyond nfa requirements. The American lasers are awesome because the support they offer, and eventually I will probably get one from SA, and go to their class, but for today I’ve just been throwing my marks on any scrap pieces and personal stuff I can get my hands on to learn the specs. |
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Posted: 12/7/2020 8:22:44 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I actually bought an inexpensive eBay fiber laser to get me started and see if it was something I could learn to run. Being small scale as I am right now I couldn’t justify SA laser. It was 2500 dollars for a 20 watt fiber. It’s 18x24, runs on 110v and uses usb to connect to my laptop. I have run it right on my desk, but it will eventually be on its own stand. I’ve learned a lot on it already, and have engraved a hand full of AR lowers, and an 870 receiver already with the typical nfa stuff. In a perfect world, I would have stepped up to a 50 watt, but if you’re not doing mass production, a 20 watt will deep engrave aluminum in about 3 minutes to beyond nfa requirements. The American lasers are awesome because the support they offer, and eventually I will probably get one from SA, and go to their class, but for today I’ve just been throwing my marks on any scrap pieces and personal stuff I can get my hands on to learn the specs. What kind of depth are you getting in that three minute marking? Photos would be appreciated. Thanks. |
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Posted: 12/7/2020 8:52:11 AM EDT
[#19]
Pics would be cool. Maybe even a link to which one you got?
Did it come with software? Where in SC are you located? |
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Posted: 12/7/2020 9:43:58 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @zackjsimpson I have the same questions as SteelSC @sorionc Does the engraving system you posted about come in a format that someone with a decent at home shop and access to 120/240 power could setup or is it something that requires a true industrial setting with space, extra pieces of equipment and a 3 or 4 phase power supply? of course we can automate and integrate into any type of industrial environment if that's what you need! Eta: a bench top unit is small and perfect for a small shop. It would not be out of place at all. It would also be the same exact marking head that you would find running 24/7 in the worst heavy industrial environments you can find and everything in between. |
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Posted: 12/7/2020 9:53:08 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I actually bought an inexpensive eBay fiber laser to get me started and see if it was something I could learn to run. Being small scale as I am right now I couldn't justify SA laser. It was 2500 dollars for a 20 watt fiber. It's 18x24, runs on 110v and uses usb to connect to my laptop. I have run it right on my desk, but it will eventually be on its own stand. I've learned a lot on it already, and have engraved a hand full of AR lowers, and an 870 receiver already with the typical nfa stuff. In a perfect world, I would have stepped up to a 50 watt, but if you're not doing mass production, a 20 watt will deep engrave aluminum in about 3 minutes to beyond nfa requirements. The American lasers are awesome because the support they offer, and eventually I will probably get one from SA, and go to their class, but for today I've just been throwing my marks on any scrap pieces and personal stuff I can get my hands on to learn the specs. Can we see pics of the laser and marks? That's really impressive if you're getting NFA depth in that amount of time. Really really impressive. most of the time with a laser in that power range they will anneal the metal not engrave. This changes the surface structure of the metal and leaves a mark but doesn't engrave to depth. A Solid mark that won't go away but doesn't meet NFA standards |
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Posted: 12/7/2020 6:25:08 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Can we see pics of the laser and marks? That's really impressive if you're getting NFA depth in that amount of time. Really really impressive. most of the time with a laser in that power range they will anneal the metal not engrave. This changes the surface structure of the metal and leaves a mark but doesn't engrave to depth. A Solid mark that won't go away but doesn't meet NFA standards Easily achievable, even on steel. Fiber lasers you can adjust the frequency, speed and power. All of which will allow you to achieve a proper depth. |
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Posted: 12/7/2020 9:06:06 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Pics would be cool. Maybe even a link to which one you got? Did it come with software? Where in SC are you located? I’m in Georgetown. When I get back on my computer I’ll send you a link to the one I got. |
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Posted: 12/7/2020 9:08:24 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Can we see pics of the laser and marks? That's really impressive if you're getting NFA depth in that amount of time. Really really impressive. most of the time with a laser in that power range they will anneal the metal not engrave. This changes the surface structure of the metal and leaves a mark but doesn't engrave to depth. A Solid mark that won't go away but doesn't meet NFA standards I’ll video the next one I do. I’m about to form 2 a lower and engrave in the trigger well. When I do I’ll record a bit of it and post it up. Higher wattage would be nice, but I’m not even doing one job a day yet with it, so I can afford for it to take a little longer per piece. |
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Posted: 12/7/2020 9:28:08 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Multiple high end gun manufacturers use programmable dot peen. eta: Using the correct equipment and settings the dot peen will hard to distinguish from lasers/roll marks and other indenting equipment. We sell them all and have been for almost 200years. Maybe Stevie Wonder cannot distinguish it, but that looks like Bam-Bam did it with a hammer and chisel. I am sure that tech has a place somewhere in MFG, but not on a quality firearm. |
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Posted: 12/7/2020 10:15:37 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Maybe Stevie Wonder cannot distinguish it, but that looks like Bam-Bam did it with a hammer and chisel. I am sure that tech has a place somewhere in MFG, but not on a quality firearm. I'll mark the metal any way you want. But when cost and efficiency are a factor the stamper usually wins. we make roll dies, pneumatic scribers/hammers all the way down to hand stamps. Roll dies are becoming fewer and fewer. Lasers are expensive and come with hazards. resolution on dot peen is pretty high. Stepper motors can move the marking pin down to 0.1mm. With the correct tip you can get a very solid mark. You'll need a loop to see the difference in a scribe and properly set up dot peen. After anodizing/color you better have some good eyes.  How Dot Peen Marking Systems Work |
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Posted: 12/9/2020 5:14:34 PM EDT
[#27]
https://www.facebook.com/ZJS-firearms-and-engraving-102704038367040
I was having some issues getting the video up, so I just put it on my company facebook page and shared it above. This was the first lower I'd ever engraved on, and I ran each line continuous for three minutes. I've got another one I'm going to do inside the trigger well, when I do that one, I'll run it for a defined amount of passes and share the settings on the laser. I'm not knocking out 100 of them a day, so I don't need a laser that does it in 5 passes, I just want clean, quality work. Flat stuff is no problem, but the yeti cups everyone loves, suck! |
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Posted: 1/22/2021 11:38:29 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You do not necessarily need a variance to have someone mark for you. For example, on AR-15 lowers I send them out for marking BEFORE making them into firearms. That’s BS. Unless it is an 80%, a manufacturer needs a variance for someone else to mark their ATF credentials. |
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Posted: 1/23/2021 7:16:51 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That’s BS. Unless it is an 80%, a manufacturer needs a variance for someone else to mark their ATF credentials. What part of "BEFORE making them into firearms." was too difficult for you to understand? And there are situations where you do not need a variance to have someone mark an already made firearm. |
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Posted: 1/27/2021 11:40:50 AM EDT
[#30]
Just picked up a 30W Fiber Laser. Jumping in and tagging this thread.
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Posted: 2/7/2021 12:03:24 AM EDT
[#31]
@zachsimpson , can you low wattage fiber laser ha for steel barrel engraving? What is the brand?
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Posted: 2/7/2021 12:06:29 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You do not necessarily need a variance to have someone mark for you. For example, on AR-15 lowers I send them out for marking BEFORE making them into firearms. As in raw forgings or 80% ? |
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Posted: 2/11/2021 11:05:27 PM EDT
[#33]
https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2021/02/11/firearm-laser-engraving/
The laser has arrived. I’m putting together a how-to series for dummies. Mostly because I’m a dummy. |
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Posted: 2/15/2021 11:15:06 PM EDT
[#34]
 Test markings. 30W is plenty for deep engraving NFA guns and serial numbers. |
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