I have been looking at the RCBS Pro Chucker 7  to upgrade my Lock n Load.

Now checking out the Evolution.  They say 10 stations?  I don't see it?  As the only thing it has over the Pro Chucker 7 is the swage.  Other than that it looks like a 7 station press to me.

Anyway I am debating between the two.  If I got the Evolution I would keep it as a manual press.  So what am I getting for the extra money?

What am I missing?

Do a search here for the Pro Chucker threads.  It breaks stuff, lacks accessories, and has been dead in the water for a long time.

I'm not sure why the prochucker 7 would even be in consideration if this was an option. I would look at the 1050 long before an rcbs progressive given their track record, as well.

I thought they had made improvements.  I will do some more searches.

I found it when I searched for 7 station a press.

I kind of like what I read about the Evolution  I like the primer collator upgrade option.

Still don't understand why they call it a 10 station press.  Is that just marketing hype?

I would like to upgrade from my 5 station Lock n Load press. to a 7 station press.  The Evolution with the primer collator upgrade.   I an tire of filling primer tubes.

I looked at the 7 station RCBS but did not hear good things.  I was willing to risk getting an early manufacture Evolution manual press, since I don't have much free time and I had previously been a Hornady LNL reloader.  Mine has worked great, I had a few questions to Mark 7 and they were very great to help me.

It is a 10 station press the same way the Dillon 1050 is an 8 station press. So any "hype" is the same as Dillons.  They both count the case feed station as number 1.

The difference with the Mark 7 is that the powder station isn't dedicated as such like the 1050 is.  So there are 9 die stations on the Mark 7, as opposed to 6 on the 1050.

The first die station (number 2) on the Mark 7 is the only one with a hole for spent primers.  The second one is the swage, and 3rd is the primer.  Any one of these could do sizing or expanding, although the swage requires more down force.  The swage or primer stations could use a hold down die like Mighty Armory makes (I have two!), but this is easier for pistol cases as the 223 round has such a small neck, the hold down could get caught on the case neck.

Here are links to the two pictures.

Hi jcwallace84

I like your positive feed back.

"The difference with the Mark 7 is that the powder station isn't dedicated as such like the 1050 is. So there are 9 die stations on the Mark 7, as opposed to 6 on the 1050."

Do you find the primer hold down station is enough of an advantage to primer seating to dedicate a station to primer seating?  My LNL press does not need it.

How do you like the swage station?  I hope it can clean primer pockets as I only clean my brass every 3rd or 4th time. I don't need pretty brass. As for the primer cleaner wire brush I find that to tedious and time consuming.

Thanks, Norm

Ps. I am really looking for to the Evolution being back in stock.  My LNL I have to do it in two stages

1. resize & deprime, prime, and bell

2.  powder drop, powder check, bullet drop (Mr. Minnie bullet feeder), bullet seat, crimp.

After stage one I remove the primer wire so the primer slide doesn't move when doing stage 2.  no problems with powder spillage and powder getting into the primer slide.

I am looking forward to reloading in just one stage.  My handle pulls will be cut in half.    The case feeder is a big plus also.  I gave up on the LNL case feeder to many glitches.
Thanks for being a beta tester.  Please keep us updated on how the Evolution performs.

Hey Norm,

The primer hold down is fine, it doesn't seem to work well without something holding the case down, unlike the hornady which primes on the downstroke, between die stations.  For 223 I experimented with 50 or so rounds and settled on using a spare body sizing die to get the right amount of friction to hold the case down but not get stuck (if using no lube). I feel like you can get nicer primer depth control with this Dillon style mechanism, whereas the Hornady would inevitably have some flex in the shellplate.

So to be honest I am new with this Dillon hybrid type press.  I am not used to swaging.  One of the reasons I got this press is because I'm sitting on a pile of 3-4k once fired mil brass that needs swaging or reaming.  I just don't have time to go through them one by one.  I've also settled on using a body die to keep the case down when swaging.  I feel like rifle case sizing will cause more than a few thosandths of flex in the system on the opposite side of the press, if done a one pass rifle method.  I do have a dillon 1500 trimmer and could use this to do one pass, but I think I might still do two pass.  One of the reasons is that lubed brass tends to make TAC powder stick along the rim of the case neck which annoys me.  I'm thinking that already swaged or non-crimped brass would not ellicit much force from the press, and a dirty primer pocked should do too much negative, although this is just my hypothesis.

I used to clean brass with the wet method and pins, then switched to shards, and now will not use any media, just the solution.  I don't feel the need to have spotless brass for blaster ammo.

I will love to try to post updates as I am able!

So tonight I finally finished my swaging of nearly 3k once fired LC 223.  I did weigh between 480 and 490 rounds and timed how long it took to run this much through the press, which was only swaging but could easily be a simply sizing operation.  It was a rate of between 1600 and 1700 rounds per hour, 1660 to be exact.  The case feeder was the limiting factor.

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Did the case feeder lag enough for you to have to wait for it to drop the case, or was it some other limit?

It was the case feeder lagging behind.  On my Hornady LNL it was never an issue since there would always be some other problem or error that would take my time.

As I got further along in this big batch I learned I could run the press really fast, I'm guessing closer to 3000/hr rate, and when it was catching up I could lube brass (gallon bag lanolin method) or dump the output tray.

In this batch of close to 3000rnds the case feeder did dump about 6 or 7 pieces of brass from the slot down on to the press.  There were zero upside down cases, and zero cases that got stuck at any point.  This is a modified Hornady case feeder, and as I have learned in the past you can't dump too much brass in it at once.

I took the case feeder off my Lock N Load I can do it faster by hand.

I think the Hornady case feeder has great potential.  Hope the modifications solve all the problems I had.

"I'm guessing closer to 3000/hr rate"  Did you add the auto drive to your Evolution?

I talked to the owner of Shooters Connection when I ordered this.  We talked for a little while about this press and Hornady and Dillon.  He said the case feeder tuned by them, and also it came with a case wiper.  They certainly did fix a lot of the issues, but also with the hornady a lot of the issues I had were the case feed, so that's a non-issue on this press which is amazing on its reliability and speed.

So I calculated my rate of about 1600/hr for 500rnds, and had a certain tempo.  This speed was limited by the case feeder (remember, 223 version).  When I would run the rounds in the drop tube almost as fast as my arm could move the press had no problem with this.  It seemed to be about twice the speed as when I measured the rate.  I don't have the auto drive.

Hi. jcwallace84

Wow that is fast. I don't ever think I will be able to pull the handle that fast, as I'm an old guy check my user name.

I'm getting mine in 40 caliber. I think the case feeder would have had no trouble keeping up on pistol cases.  I think I read some where that the (Revolution or Evolution Pro) is rated slower for rifle cartridges.  If so that should also apply to the Evolution.

Good to hear the issues are fixed.

I’ve sort of added a wiper, and a couple other things, to my Hornady feeder, which improved its reliability immensely.  The problem that seems most challenging is at the drop end: even with a gadget to keep cases from bouncing off the sub plate (mine or Hornady’s) the case pusher needs to be really carefully tuned, and you have to use the right V-block AND install it the same way every time.

I’m glad to hear that someone has come up with more than the “spit and bailing wire” approach I have used, because despite the crap people fling at Hornady for their case feeder, it works pretty darn well almost all the time, and a tweak or patch that makes it run well even better is a good thing.

I am confused, I thought this was a Mark 7 Evolution thread.  Are there Hornady parts on the Evolution???

Are they using a Hornady feeder???

Please advise if so

Wow, times change.  A factory authorized bullet feeder for the 1050?

My first ever press was a 650 and I instantly regretted it.  The powder throw just sucked.  If I dispensed 10 charges with stick powder 8 of them would be +/- .2gr from the desired charge but 2 would be way out.

Not good enough for me and I've used a turret and RCBS chargemaster ever since.

If this machine had some sort of digital dispensing method that was as accurate as a chargemaster (if it is automated, who gives a crap if it is slower even 100 rds/hr would be good for me I'd just leave it on for 10 hours) man that would be nice.  I'm sure set up would be a pain though, having to advance a piece through each station getting everything dialed in before it was run time.

What powder was that you were getting .04-.06" deviations with?  Ball?

It’s a modified Hornady feeder.  The case collator (the part at the top) is Hornady with modifications. I don’t know how much of the case drop part is Mark 7 and how much is Hornady.

Keep in mind that there’s only so many ways to make a case feeder.  Hornady’s and Dillons are really close to each other in design...

Roger that, modified collator, good to understand, thanks.

A well tuned powder measure will drop accurate charges for just about every powder. There are lots of ball and short cut extruded powders that meter very well.

No consumer-level press is ever going to be good enough to set & forget. Walk away from one of these automatic systems at your peril. Progressive presses can make a lot of quality ammo very quickly, but they can also make a lot of hazardous garbage very quickly. Most of us are spot checking everything every 50 rounds or so.

I'll also throw out a quick caution that the $200-300 automatic powder dispensers like the RCBS Chargemaster and Hornady Autocharge use relatively low quality scales that are prone to drift. Temperature, warm-up time, power quality, presence of some kinds of lights, but mostly the cheap strain gage scales they're built with all introduce errors. Take care putting your faith in those machines.

Charge master made SDs in the teens possible for me.  My XL650 didn't even come close.

UPDATE:

I ran 100rnds of 223 using Hornady 55gr FMJ and TAC.  TAC being spherical powder. I got all the stations set up and this is already sized and swaged brass.  For this particular trial I used a Mighty Armory hold down die for the priming.

I measured the powder drop without anything other than weighing the case before and then after the powder drop, being careful not to spill.

As you can see I used my A&D FX-120i scale, what you can't see is the Trip Lite powder conditioner, ferric coils on power cord, and that I had it leveled, warmed up, and calibrated with a Troemner analytical Class 1 50g calibration weight.

The values I got in order as they were created were (in grains)

25.18
25.26
25.34
25.3
25.3
25.44
25.24
25.26

This results in an extreme spread of 0.26gr, so +/-0.13gr, and an SD of 0.072gr, avg of 25.29gr.

So let this be a future reference data point for all of you.  It was also using a pretty full cylinder of powder.

If anything I bet these numbers could be improved upon.  The one 25.44gr charge happened after the case neck hit the hold down die and I had to adjust it, and if you take that out it becomes a spread of 0.16gr or +/- 0.08gr.  I have an idea of how to accomplish primer hold down without the hold down die, and not using a friction fit 223 body die.  I'll see how it works in the near future.

Also, I used a Forster benchrest seater and Redding adjustable crimp die.  Necks were expanded with a lyman M die.  I measured the (almost) ogive to base length on several rounds randomly in the output bin. I used the Hornady 020 insert, as I don't seem to have a true .22 let alone .224 insert, so not quite ogive, but probably overestimates variance.   The values are as follows (in inches):

1.954
1.952
1.952
1.951
1.952
1.953
1.951

This results in a spread of 0.003in, so +/- 0.0015in, and SD of 0.001in.

Here are the pictures

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Thank you JC!

If you have a headspace comparator, would love to see rifle brass headspace variance on a random 10 when you have it spinning.  I think am seeing some flex in a couple videos when sizing, but can’t tell for sure.  What say you?

The other values are lookin real good

Ah yes, I think I have an insert that would work. However, all my brass was previously sized on my old press. I did swage all this brass on the evo press and I did use a body die as a hold down but it wasn’t set to bump the shoulder back.  this is all once fired LC.

There is definitely “flex” (shifting of tolerances really) when more force is applied. I realized that I needed more lube than what I had been since I was using a bit different amount of brass in my bulk method than I had in the past.  Typically, even with 9mm I had sized in a different step cause I don’t like seating etc with higher forces on the system.  I haven’t done 9mm yet on this press, which to me sizes almost as bad as some rifle.

I see a possible Case Pro 100 purchase for you in the near future.  You might use less case lube.  Then you will only have to size the neck and shoulder on your Super Duper Evolution Press as the rest of the case will already be sized.

http://www.casepro100.com/products.ydev

Using Case Pro 100 on rifle cases, ie 308 and .223

http://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/using-case-pro-100-on-rifle-cases-ie-308-and-223.3827239/

Read reply # 12 January 29, 2018, 12:30 PM  also reply 15

https://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=593061

The whole thread is a good read.

You could order the Pro 100 for .223  $937.24  and an additional Die: Model: 9mm (9x19 9x21 9x23)   $177.48

I love spending other peoples money.

Ps. Case Pro 100 rolling brass

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NrKOTFoOrM

Ps. With one of these your sizing woes will be a thing of the past.

No worries, I can wait until you size rifle on the Evolution if you think of it then.   Regards.

Hi jcwallace84

Mark 7 web site Revolution Package Builder Step 7 - Accessories:  Second Guide Pin (suggested for rifle calibers) [+$149.95,  Third Guide Pin (suggested for large rifle calibers) [+$174.95]

Maybe these extra guide pins might help with stabilization and reduce flex???

Hopefully these extra guide pins are available for the Evolution and can be user installed.  You might check your manual and also check with technical support.

I called Mark 7, the sales lady didn't understand what I was asking.  I can't talk to technical support as I don't have my Press and serial number yet.

I just found this.

•Rifle Caliber orders include the auxiliary guide rod pre-installed.

https://www.markvii-loading.com/The-Evolution_p_410.html

So you should be good to go.  Although it might not include the third guide rod.

Not sure why I did not see this information before???  I am old and getting older by the day.

Hi Norm,

Thanks for the heads up!  So I had heard about the aux guide rod, and in fact I don't have one on my press at I got mine so early from the first round of pre-orders before there was a rifle version of the press.  I'd buy the aux guide for $150 if I could.  The link you gave me was for a revolution press, I'm not sure if its the same price.  But I have not seen that before thanks!

By the way, the IR laser operated low powder sensor is not ready for the manual Evo press.  Here are some pics of me improvising.  Works pretty well.

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The link I gave you in my last reply Posted: Today 2:31:36 PM PDT Is for the Evolution Press  In the section:  Included with the Machine.   4th item •Rifle Caliber orders include the auxiliary guide rod pre-installed.

I would ask them to send the auxiliary guide rod free with instructions on how to install it.

Did you receive your Press in .223 caliber Then It should be free.

If you added that caliber to the Press after you received it ? Then still ask if you can get it free if you buy the third guide rod as .223 is the main caliber your loading.  Give them a link to this thread so they can see all your pictures loading .223.

Be sure and check with technical support on installation sales hasn't a clue on how to do it.

Yes, that was many months before they changed the website and pricing.  With the pre-order, I paid over $500 less than the current price and I don't think they had an aux guide rod at the time.  When I ordered only a few revolution presses were in existence, probably all pistol calibers.

I still think they should bring your Press up to the same standard as the ones they are now shipping as these are all preorders also.

That’s not a fair comparison, that’s like complaining about your chargemaster and turret being slower at making ammo than your 650.

From about 1995 to 2005, I fired aprox 2k of various centerfire pistol rounds a month, with the split normally about 1/2 being 40 (I shoot USPSA limited), and the other 1/2 split almost evenly between 9mm and .45.... with maybe  a few 100 random others thrown in (.45 LC, .357, .38 mostly).

I started with a Dillon 550 (back in 1996)... after about a year, that got assigned to rifle reload duties... and I bought an RL1050 (got it for $600!!)... Bought a Super 1050 last year, and then a Mark 7 Pro drive that I put on the RL1050...I liked the Mark 7 so much I bought another and put it on my Super 1050.

In the last 3 years, my round count has gone up:  My son is now 18 and shooting USPSA and 3 gun regularly... I also now shoot 3 gun, so we go through well over 5k of ammo a month, mostly .223, 9mm, and .40.

I simply cannot say enough good things about the Mark 7:  It has made maintenance reloading very low-effort and reliable.

I think I should sell the 1050s sooner rather than later, as I think the Evolution is so good that it's absolutely going to KILL the used 1050 market.

Agree....IF Mark 7 performs in the customer service department and fixes nit's on the new machines efficiently.   Kill is relative though, I expect the Mark 7's cost to increase quickly and the used 1050's to find a floor in the same way used 4wd trucks do in snow country .... but certainly agree sooner is better than later if you're a seller and Mark 7 company performs.

I agree about the cost increase.

Check out quiller post  1 hour ago in reply to  (3 hours ago, SSGJohnV said:).

Ps.  The time keeps changing. Just check out the quiller reply to SSGJohnV said.  Page 35 in case the page changes also.

I would quote but got in trouble for quoting people.  So best you read about the many updates he mentioned.

https://forums.brianenos.com/topic/260316-mark7-evolution/?page=35

If they keep updating and improving parts I don't see how the costs can remain the same.  They have already had one price increase for future orders.