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Posted: 2/14/2021 11:07:21 PM EDT
I don’t have a magnum rifle so I’ve been looking. I’ve narrowed it to the 7mm magnum over the 300 win mag. Reason being, is the 7 can do the same as the 300 but with less recoil and flatter shooting
Now I already have a 30.06 which is close to the 7mag so should I buy a 7mag? Would there really be a significant difference or would I be wasting my money? Or is there another magnum that surpasses the 7mm which isn’t the 300 wm or has massive recoil? Thanks for any suggestions |
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I've never had a 7mm magnum. I have had, at one time or another, most of the 30 cal chamberings. There are things I like about 300 WM and things I do not like. The belt does not resize so some rifles with a tight chamber will not shoot reloads, you don't have to load it to the max load to have a smoking fast bullet coming out. Ammo is double what 30-06 cost. Most people do not like the recoil difference.
I really love my Tikka 300WSM (WINCHESTER SHORT MAG ) it shoots great and will stomp anything in the woods and it reloads easier than 30-06 the cases are stronger, punishing noise, noticeable recoil but I love it. I suspect the 7mm WSM would be a fine choice and better than the 7 mag. but I will stay with .30 cal. 7mm08 is a low recoil caliber able to do anything you really need to do sort of large bears and dangerous game if you are looking to tone the blast down this is for you. 375 H&H or 375 Ruger I really like (but very spendy ammo) ......it is a significant step up in power, and then there is the 458 Lott 416 Rigby true dangerous game chamberings that most of us will never get to take on safari. |
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If you are going to own a magnum rifle, you are either going to deal with recoil or invest in recoil reducers..the easiest and best of the recoil reducers is just threading the barrel for a brake, A good brake will cut recoil by 40% or more, making even a big magnum shoot like a smaller short action cartridge like 308 or even 243...As for which cartridge, hard to argue with the 30 cals, they have such a broad selection of bullet choices from under a 100 grains to 250 grains... 7mm is a good round, but when you get into magnum territory most are harder on the barrel life than a 30 cal due to the smaller bore/bigger case difference...
Were it me, and I wanted a real magnum rifle, it would be bigger than 300wm, 300prc is ok, but it really doesn't do anything noticeable better ballistically than the wm, especially when running the true heavies like the 245 berger or the 250 A-tip...If you want the latest greatest 30 cal magnum that will noticeable out do the 300wm, consider the 300norma mag, or the even hotter 300rum, both will shoot the heaviest high BC heavy weight 30 cal bullets with authority.. I shoot a 16 pound 300rum with a 230 berger @ 3220fps, it runs a muzzle brake and is heavy.. just how the rifle worked out, I have shot the same load in a 8.5 pd pencil barrel rifle and a 11.5 pd sendero barreled rifle, no issues with either with or without a brake..I have had first time shooters behind my rifle making cold bore hits at 1500 yards, both guys and girls, not one has ever complained about recoil, exactly the opposite, most comment on how easy it is to shoot versus what they thought it would be like... |
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7mm had me curious to. Eventually stumbled on the 280 Remington and then someone said look at the 7mm ackley.
You could rebarrel a 3006 to 7mm ack and have near magnum performance. The 7mm short mag cartridges are another option but the the most popular short mags tgese days seem to be the 300 and 270. If i we buying a dedicated light weight mountain rifle i think i would get a savage ultra lie in the ack |
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If you reload for the 30-06, I think the 300 WM (or some 30 cal magnum) would be a great choice due to projectile commonality
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If you already have an 06, why not step up to a 338 Win Mag. It’s the exact same case scaled up to 338. I find the recoil and blast much more tolerable than a 300 WM.
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Depends.
What the plan? Sight in and four rounds per year or heavy long range target shooting? I have a .300 win mag I bought for a western state hunt that never came off due to buddy’s divorce. it is the tweener of the magnums. For a serious Ak gun as was hinted above the .338 is the wiser choice for you want a big ugly going to eat you bear gun. It is extra insurance when your flesh might be scathed in my opinion. I wouldn’t replace my gun but I realize there are better options. This from a non Alaskan hunterso weigh that for what it is worth. For not going to eat you game you could use a lot less gun. Trade off on smaller bores and high round counts is barrel life. If you are going to be doing the long range sniper hunter thing and work up 10 different bullets, in ten different powders and shooting many rounds to seek ballistic nirvana you will smoke your barrel life sooner than you would with a standard case size with a bigger bore hole. If rebarrelling for $350 gunsmithing on a $350 barrel blank is acceptable then you know what your future holds. Many casual shooter’s never consider their barrel wears out. My BIL had a Howa 7mm mag. I loved that rifle, great shooter. Overkill for his hundred to 200 yard shooting at a deer or two a year but it did the job. Recoil was manageable, blast being a bit separate. I am more averse to blast than recoil. My sinus cavity tunes it into a good headache. I tend to grab lighter guns these days as I am constrained to about 350 yards and hunt north eastern whitetails. A .260 or 7mm-08 is quite sufficient for me. ETA. The BIL’s 7 mag was a clean crown of iirc 26” bbl. About right. My .300 wm model 70 was 26” with their BOSS brake on it. Recoil wasn’t much different than a 180 grain 30-06. The blast was upped over the 06 though. Shooting that gun got me started to always keep foam ear protection in my hunting coat pockets. If you have the time while observing by all means fill your ears. On the range I would use foam and muffs. No do overs on hearing loss. I’ll take the risk if the 14 point walks by and doesn’t look like he is going to stop and feed. so far I haven’t risked it because I don’t have the bucks like that. |
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Depends on what you are going to be shooting at.
I've got a .338 Win Mag and a .264 Win Mag. Both are great hunting cartridges, wouldn't use either for plain target shooting. |
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The 300 wm is the 30-06 of the magnums. It is by what all others are compared to. Unless you are looking to be different, there is no reason to scratch it from the list.
If your only reason is to own a magnum, buy whatever comes up for a good price. If you have a purpose for it, share. You will get better advice what cartridge would be tailored to your need. |
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OP, the 7mm Magnum will never be better than the 300.
I’ve got several 7mm Magnums including hot wild cats. I’d pick the 300 hands down. |
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Used to have a 7mm Rem Mag. Great shooter, loved the round but recoil on a light rifle was brutal. I am now thinking of getting another larger caliber/magnum and will more then likely go with a .300 Win. Ammo is fairly easy to come by, muzzle brake is needed for any amount of shooting anyways, and the larger bullet selection is nice.
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Quoted: 7mm had me curious to. Eventually stumbled on the 280 Remington and then someone said look at the 7mm ackley. You could rebarrel a 3006 to 7mm ack and have near magnum performance. The 7mm short mag cartridges are another option but the the most popular short mags tgese days seem to be the 300 and 270. If i we buying a dedicated light weight mountain rifle i think i would get a savage ultra lie in the ack View Quote 7mm AI (Ackley Improved) is the way to go, especially if you handload. Essentially 7mm Rem Mag performance with less powder and a little less recoil. It is backward compatible with my favorite classic hunting round, the .280 Remington (I have three .280s). Sadly, the .280 ammo is hard to come by, but the 7AI is getting popular. I handload, so it matters not. Both are based on the '06 case, basically an '06 case necked down to 7mm with the shoulder pushed out .050" to prevent accidental chambering in a .270 Win rifle. The AI just has a sharper shoulder angle pushed forward a bit more, and slightly increased case capacity. I may have one of my .280 rifles rechambered for AI. Also, I have two 7mm Rem Mags, one a Win 70, the other 700 Remington. Rarely shoot them now because the .280 does as well out to 400 yards and I don't shoot game beyond that. I will say this in defense of the 7mm Rem Mag. Ammo is just as plentiful as '06. This and its performance with much heavier bullets on game like Elk may be its only real advantage. Never bothered with 300 Win Mag, as I have a Mark V in .300 Weatherby (which I also rarely hunt anything needing its added performance, muzzle blast or recoil). https://thebiggamehuntingblog.com/270-vs-280-remington-vs-280-ackley-improved-vs-7mm-mag/ |
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Thanks for all these informative responses. I should say recoil isn’t really an issue for me as most of my 30.06 rifles have buttplates instead of recoil pads. At most, I’d be shooting 500 yds max when I practice up to it. That’s why I’m looking for 7 mag. I think it’ll kill anything anything in NA up to that range
What about the 270 WSM? That’s a new one that’s getting good reviews |
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Quoted: Thanks for all these informative responses. I should say recoil isn’t really an issue for me as most of my 30.06 rifles have buttplates instead of recoil pads. At most, I’d be shooting 500 yds max when I practice up to it. That’s why I’m looking for 7 mag. I think it’ll kill anything anything in NA up to that range What about the 270 WSM? That’s a new one that’s getting good reviews View Quote Do you just want a magnum? The 270WSM is a great round as is 7mm win mag. |
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Quoted: Do you just want a magnum? The 270WSM is a great round as is 7mm win mag. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Thanks for all these informative responses. I should say recoil isn’t really an issue for me as most of my 30.06 rifles have buttplates instead of recoil pads. At most, I’d be shooting 500 yds max when I practice up to it. That’s why I’m looking for 7 mag. I think it’ll kill anything anything in NA up to that range What about the 270 WSM? That’s a new one that’s getting good reviews Do you just want a magnum? The 270WSM is a great round as is 7mm win mag. Yea, pretty much. I’ve got rifles, but not a single magnum. If I were to get a magnum, it’d be one to cover all situations |
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Are you looking for a magnum to be a flat shooter for deer sized game or a magnum to shoot big bullets at big and dangerous game like big bears and moose? For the former I'd look to the .257 WM, .264 Win mag, .270 WM or similar velocities in those bore sizes. For the latter the .300 Win mag is the bare minimum and to me the .338 Win mag is the starting point and the fun only gets more expensive from there. To me the 7mm Rem mag is just a slightly faster .30-06 but for all practical purposes they are interchangeable.
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Magnums are fun. I've owned the 7mm Rem Mag, 300 Win Mag, 338 Lapua Mag, etc. I prefer the 7mm Rem Mag the most as an all around Magnum cartridge.
First off I'll say the 7mm Rem Mag smokes the 30-06 and it isn't even close. Calling the 7mm Rem Mag a "slightly faster 30-06" is a severe misrepresentation of the round since with similar bullet weights it can match and even outperform the 300 Win Mag. You really have to kind of crunch the numbers and get in to the details to see why the 7mm Rem Mag is great. All things being equal the 7mm will have better ballistics than an equal weight .30 caliber bullet. For instance... the 7mm Berger 190gr LRHT has a ballistic coefficient of .751 (G1), where-as the .308 Berger 190gr VLD has a ballistic coefficient of .566 (G1). If we jump up to the 208gr .308 LRHT which is the competing round against the 7mm's then the ballistic coefficient is .689, so still lower than the closest comparable 7mm round. For a comparison we'll use similar bullet weights for each: the Hornady 7mm Rem Mag 175gr ELD-X vs. the Hornady 300 Win Mag 178gr ELD-X The 300 Win Mag starts out with a higher velocity and more muzzle energy at 2,960fps and 3,400 ft-lb. The 7mm Rem Mag is starting out at 2,840fps and 3,100 ft-lb. The B.C. of the 7mm bullet is .689 vs. .535 for the 300 WM. Once we pass 400 yards the much higher B.C. of the 7mm Rem Mag allows it to overtake the 300WM in velocity and power. At 1,000 yards this load is still putting out 1,000 ft-lb of energy in the 7mm Rem Mag and only about 900 ft-lb from the 300 Win Mag. Compare the Hornady SSTs... 162gr for the 7mm vs. 165 for the 300WM and you get the same story. At a certain point the 7mm Rem Mag overtakes the 300 Win Mag in power and velocity when bullet weights are similar. Obviously the 300WM is a larger diameter bullet so there's that, and you can go up to some real heavy stuff in it well beyond 200gr which is nice as well. The 300 Win Mag is a great round... one of my favorites honestly. So I don't want this to sound like I am dogging on it because I love the round. It's just a fact, though, that the 7mm Rem Mag is a ballistically superior round hence why I prefer it over the 300 Win Mag. It matches or exceeds the 300WM with similar bullet weights and does so with 2/3 the recoil. |
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I see what you’re saying. A lot of people have a general rule to hit the animal with at least 1000 foot pounds. Based upon what you’re saying, the 7 mm mag will provide that to about 1000 yards. So at 500 yards or so, it really doesn’t make any difference to the animal what caliber you’re using except a flatter shooting cartridge is more forgiving in range estimation. Is this a correct summarization?
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Quoted: I see what you’re saying. A lot of people have a general rule to hit the animal with at least 1000 foot pounds. Based upon what you’re saying, the 7 mm mag will provide that to about 1000 yards. So at 500 yards or so, it really doesn’t make any difference to the animal what caliber you’re using except a flatter shooting cartridge is more forgiving in range estimation. Is this a correct summarization? View Quote Better for windage as well, also better for energy on target, it all matters to some extent, go over to long range hunting and the top guys will tell you 7mm does not kill as good as 30 cal does...As far as 7mm being better ballistically, maybe 10 years ago and maybe in the small magnums, but todays 30 cal heavy bullets when pushed from the big magnums, 7mm won't come close...Hell Berger(one of if not the best production long range bullet makers) only makes a dozen different 7mm bullets total across all types of bullets, they make 32 in 308... Pull up real load data from across the internet and load the data in your favorite ballistics calculator and compare the numbers...There is a reason so many makers are producing so many different 30 cal bullets now days... |
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Quoted: I see what you’re saying. A lot of people have a general rule to hit the animal with at least 1000 foot pounds. Based upon what you’re saying, the 7 mm mag will provide that to about 1000 yards. So at 500 yards or so, it really doesn’t make any difference to the animal what caliber you’re using except a flatter shooting cartridge is more forgiving in range estimation. Is this a correct summarization? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: I see what you’re saying. A lot of people have a general rule to hit the animal with at least 1000 foot pounds. Based upon what you’re saying, the 7 mm mag will provide that to about 1000 yards. So at 500 yards or so, it really doesn’t make any difference to the animal what caliber you’re using except a flatter shooting cartridge is more forgiving in range estimation. Is this a correct summarization? Correct. Using my above example even if we bump the 300 Win Mag up to the 200gr ELD-X which has a .597 BC... the 175gr ELD-X out of the 7mm Rem Mag is still slightly edging it out at 1,000 yards by over 100fps and about 40 ft-lb of energy. If you're only shooting out to a few hundred yards then I'd say yeah keep the 30-06 and ignore the 7mm Rem Mag. Within 300 yards or so they are pretty similar, but once you get past 300 yards the 7mm really starts to spank the 30-06. Then again once we get to the longer ranges it even starts to pull ahead of the .300 Win Mag. The .300 WM really only starts to outclass it once you get into the real heavy 210gr or heavier bullets. Quoted: Better for windage as well, also better for energy on target, it all matters to some extent, go over to long range hunting and the top guys will tell you 7mm does not kill as good as 30 cal does...As far as 7mm being better ballistically, maybe 10 years ago and maybe in the small magnums, but todays 30 cal heavy bullets when pushed from the big magnums, 7mm won't come close...Hell Berger(one of if not the best production long range bullet makers) only makes a dozen different 7mm bullets total across all types of bullets, they make 32 in 308... Pull up real load data from across the internet and load the data in your favorite ballistics calculator and compare the numbers...There is a reason so many makers are producing so many different 30 cal bullets now days... Always coming in to provide the benefits of the 300 RUM. An absolute beast of a round. We are talking about it in comparison to the .300 Win Mag here! Haha. Obviously the 7mm Rem isn't going to compete with the super magnums like the .300 PRC or .300 RUM |
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Quoted: Correct. Using my above example even if we bump the 300 Win Mag up to the 200gr ELD-X which has a .597 BC... the 175gr ELD-X out of the 7mm Rem Mag is still slightly edging it out at 1,000 yards by over 100fps and about 40 ft-lb of energy. If you're only shooting out to a few hundred yards then I'd say yeah keep the 30-06 and ignore the 7mm Rem Mag. Within 300 yards or so they are pretty similar, but once you get past 300 yards the 7mm really starts to spank the 30-06. Then again once we get to the longer ranges it even starts to pull ahead of the .300 Win Mag. The .300 WM really only starts to outclass it once you get into the real heavy 210gr or heavier bullets. Always coming in to provide the benefits of the 300 RUM. An absolute beast of a round. We are talking about it in comparison to the .300 Win Mag here! Haha. Obviously the 7mm Rem isn't going to compete with the super magnums like the .300 PRC or .300 RUM View Quote You do realize 300prc and 300wm are basically identical right? one(prc) shoots the lighter bullets marginally better, one(wm) shoots the heavies marginally better, neither will do noticeably better that the other using the same bullets...As for your 7mm versus wm comparison, who in their right mind is going to load the best BC production bullet 7mm makers produce but only load a middle of the road 30 cal bullet, why would he not load the 220(.691) the 230(.717) or even the 245(.807) or the hornaday 250 A-tip(.878) in the 300wm? Does not matter to me what he chooses, I just think its a bit dishonest to think that 30-06/300wm/7rm is the heart of magnum performance when reality is its the bottom of magnum performance. And since he already has close to if not lower end magnum performance capabilities well covered and wants real magnum performance, he might actually consider the big magnums, wether that be rum/norma mag/ Weatherby mag or Lapua mag and wether it is a 7mm/30 or 338, actually have a noticeable jump in performance over stuff he already has... And if all he really wants is 500 yard performance, well does he really need anything new over what he already owns that will already do that job just fine..... |
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Basically there is no real reason to own a 7mm Rem Mag and any of the following: 270 Win, 280 Rem, 30-06, 300 WSM, 270 WSM. They are so close in ballistics it's just a wash really - especially when you use 130 - 180 grain bullets.
The 300 Win Mag basically brings the 200-250 grain loads to the table (as well as all that extra recoil). Right now - based on ammo prices/reloading components I'd either buy a 30-06 or a 270 Win and call it a day. |
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Quoted: You do realize 300prc and 300wm are basically identical right? one(prc) shoots the lighter bullets marginally better, one(wm) shoots the heavies marginally better, neither will do noticeably better that the other using the same bullets...As for your 7mm versus wm comparison, who in their right mind is going to load the best BC production bullet 7mm makers produce but only load a middle of the road 30 cal bullet, why would he not load the 220(.691) the 230(.717) or even the 245(.807) or the hornaday 250 A-tip(.878) in the 300wm? Does not matter to me what he chooses, I just think its a bit dishonest to think that 30-06/300wm/7rm is the heart of magnum performance when reality is its the bottom of magnum performance. And since he already has close to if not lower end magnum performance capabilities well covered and wants real magnum performance, he might actually consider the big magnums, wether that be rum/norma mag/ Weatherby mag or Lapua mag and wether it is a 7mm/30 or 338, actually have a noticeable jump in performance over stuff he already has... And if all he really wants is 500 yard performance, well does he really need anything new over what he already owns that will already do that job just fine..... View Quote I wouldn't say the PRC and 300WM are identical. The PRC kicks the 300 Win Mag's ass. With a 24" barrel the 178gr ELD-X is doing 2,910 fps and 3,348 ft-lb at the muzzle out of a Win Mag. A 300 PRC with the same bullet is doing 3,108 fps and 3,819 ft-lb at the muzzle. And the PRC actually handles the heavies better as well. If we look at a 230gr Berger Hybrid it's doing 2,750fps and 3,863 ft-lb out of a 300 Win Mag. Out of a PRC it's doing 2,850 fps and 4,149 ft-lb. The PRC is closer in performance to a 300 RUM than it is a 300 WM. |
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Quoted: 300PRC testing v Win Mag, Rum, Norma for ELR I wouldn't say the PRC and 300WM are identical. The PRC kicks the 300 Win Mag's ass. With a 24" barrel the 178gr ELD-X is doing 2,910 fps and 3,348 ft-lb at the muzzle out of a Win Mag. A 300 PRC with the same bullet is doing 3,108 fps and 3,819 ft-lb at the muzzle. And the PRC actually handles the heavies better as well. If we look at a 230gr Berger Hybrid it's doing 2,750fps and 3,863 ft-lb out of a 300 Win Mag. Out of a PRC it's doing 2,850 fps and 4,149 ft-lb. The PRC is closer in performance to a 300 RUM than it is a 300 WM. View Quote Thats not what real world testing is proving, not even close...This guy gives a pretty basic comparison of both the 300prc and the win mag, as well as the rum and the norma..the rum and norma are close, the prc and wm lag well behind...And that is what we see amongst our group between the prc/wm/and rum(yes we have all 3), nobody has stepped up for a norma yet but I am sure it will be about what this guy has found testing... As far as the rum, my son and 2 friends all run bone stock rem 700 long range rifles that have been threaded for brakes, otherwise factory original as shipped, all 3 shoot the 230 berger at 3150 fps(+/- 25fps) out of a 26" factory chamber/barrel, my rum does better, but its also got 2" more barrel and was chambered long for the 230's...I have some 245's sitting here for mine, but likely won't play with them until I rebarrel my rifle, but I expect them to perform just as good as the 230's do...The Norma looks very, very good for what it is, but it really needs a 750" bolt versus the 700" bolt the rems use...But if I had to have a new cartridge just to have one, that would be my choice, other wise I'll just keep rocking what works already.... 300PRC testing v Win Mag, Rum, Norma for ELR |
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Quoted: Thats not what real world testing is proving, not even close...This guy gives a pretty basic comparison of both the 300prc and the win mag, as well as the rum and the norma..the rum and norma are close, the prc and wm lag well behind...And that is what we see amongst our group between the prc/wm/and rum(yes we have all 3), nobody has stepped up for a norma yet but I am sure it will be about what this guy has found testing... As far as the rum, my son and 2 friends all run bone stock rem 700 long range rifles that have been threaded for brakes, otherwise factory original as shipped, all 3 shoot the 230 berger at 3150 fps(+/- 25fps) out of a 26" factory chamber/barrel, my rum does better, but its also got 2" more barrel and was chambered long for the 230's...I have some 245's sitting here for mine, but likely won't play with them until I rebarrel my rifle, but I expect them to perform just as good as the 230's do...The Norma looks very, very good for what it is, but it really needs a 750" bolt versus the 700" bolt the rems use...But if I had to have a new cartridge just to have one, that would be my choice, other wise I'll just keep rocking what works already.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AhQmRk2jSeU View Quote I'm not going to hijack OP's thread to go back and forth on cartridges. He asked about the 7mm Rem Mag and I provided points as to why it is a good round. The video you provided is nice but it's just one guy talking about his handloads. The data I provided is data from real factory loaded cartridges that were tested and it shows the 300 PRC is well beyond the 300 WM in performance and closer to the 300 RUM. These were loads for each round from the same company to take out any sort of bias. We can agree to disagree but the data shows my points to be accurate. Plus you're starting to get into custom rifles vs. factory rifles which is a whole 'nother ballpark. OP is asking about hunting rifles, not precision match rigs. It's like saying car A is faster than car B, but then going well yeah but car B can be faster if I modify it. At that point you're just on to a whole different topic. To my original point... when a 7mm Rem Mag and 300 Win Mag are shooting comparable bullet weights which is common out of factory rifles the 7mm is going to have the advantage ballistically and it shows when you look at the data. That's just a fact. |
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Quoted: I'm not going to hijack OP's thread to go back and forth on cartridges. He asked about the 7mm Rem Mag and I provided points as to why it is a good round. The video you provided is nice but it's just one guy talking about his handloads. The data I provided is data from real factory loaded cartridges that were tested and it shows the 300 PRC is well beyond the 300 WM in performance and closer to the 300 RUM. These were loads for each round from the same company to take out any sort of bias. We can agree to disagree but the data shows my points to be accurate. Plus you're starting to get into custom rifles vs. factory rifles which is a whole 'nother ballpark. OP is asking about hunting rifles, not precision match rigs. It's like saying car A is faster than car B, but then going well yeah but car B can be faster if I modify it. At that point you're just on to a whole different topic. To my original point... when a 7mm Rem Mag and 300 Win Mag are shooting comparable bullet weights which is common out of factory rifles the 7mm is going to have the advantage ballistically and it shows when you look at the data. That's just a fact. View Quote You are right, we should stop stinking up OP's thread, the rest, not so much, but those are actual results that we have also witnessed in person with factory rifles, yes my rifle does better and I stated it did because it was built for the bullet.. but everything that video claims backs up exactly what we have seen in person across my Labrador with those exact factory rifles..adding a brake isn't altering the results..With that, good luck with whatever you decide OP, all are perfectly capable for the distances you wish to shot, all will do a fine job for you... |
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By all means, keep your discussions coming. I’m learning something here
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Here's some trajectory charts I made from factory loaded ammunition for each caliber so you can see them for yourself, OP. In each instance the table on the left is the 7mm Rem Mag and the table on the right is the 300 Win Mag. Each one was taken with velocities out of a 26" barrel so there's no bias as to barrel length. The red dot on the chart is when the 7mm Rem Mag starts outperforming the 300 Win Mag.
7mm Rem Mag 168gr Berger Hybrid vs. 300 Win Mag 168gr Berger Hybrid Here we have equal bullet weights. The 7mm Rem Mag pretty quickly overtakes the 300 Win Mag in velocity, energy, drop, and windage and is beating it pretty handily at 1,000 yards. Attached File 7mm Rem Mag 175gr ELD-X vs. 300 Win Mag 178gr ELD-X Nearly equal bullet weights. Once the 7mm gets its footing it surpasses the 300 Win Mag yet again in every measure and is beating it at 1,000 yards again. Attached File 7mm Rem Mag 175gr ELD-X vs. 300 Win Mag 212gr ELD-X Here we see the 7mm finally start lagging in energy, but it still beats the 300 Win Mag in velocity, drop, and wind drift at 1,000 yards. Attached File 7mm Rem Mag Berger 195gr EOL vs. 300 Win Mag 245gr EOL Here we compare the heaviest bullet weight for the 7mm Rem Mag to one of the heaviest for the 300 Win Mag. Like with the ELD-X the 7mm is losing to the 300 Win Mag in regard to energy, but it's beating it in velocity and drop. They're neck and neck with regard to windage. |
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It’s very informative, thank you.
You know last night I was playing around with my Strelok app and looking at the 30.06 and 308 rifles that I tend to hunt with, and the factory loaded ammo (nosler, federal) that I use, strelok calculates foot pounds and these give me over 1000 ftlbs at about 700 yds. So now I’m rethinking the need for a magnum. I mean I guess if I didn’t have a 30.06 then I would see the need for one but I have 4 30.06 rifles and a couple 308s. I’m thinking that I cannot take a shot at 600 yards anyway. I would assume 500 yards would be my max. As it is now I’ve only shot at 300 yards and I’m pretty confident at that range. With some practice I’m sure I could get up to 500. I’m thinking now that a magnum might just be a frivolous pleasure |
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Quoted: It’s very informative, thank you. You know last night I was playing around with my Strelok app and looking at the 30.06 and 308 rifles that I tend to hunt with, and the factory loaded ammo (nosler, federal) that I use, strelok calculates foot pounds and these give me over 1000 ftlbs at about 700 yds. So now I’m rethinking the need for a magnum. I mean I guess if I didn’t have a 30.06 then I would see the need for one but I have 4 30.06 rifles and a couple 308s. I’m thinking that I cannot take a shot at 600 yards anyway. I would assume 500 yards would be my max. As it is now I’ve only shot at 300 yards and I’m pretty confident at that range. With some practice I’m sure I could get up to 500. I’m thinking now that a magnum might just be a frivolous pleasure View Quote And honestly within those ranges the .308 and 30-06 are perfectly capable rounds. Within 500 yards the only advantage you gain from a 7mm Rem Mag or a 300 Win Mag is that you'll have a much flatter trajectory so there's less drop and wind drift that need to be accounted for. Within 500 yards an animal isn't going to notice the difference between a .308, 30-06, 7mm, or 300 WM. The other thing I will say against the Magnums is they have a penchant for destroying meat if you shoot game too close... especially the 7mm Rem Mag. I pretty much stick to bullets more geared for penetration rather than expansion. Once you get past 500 yards is where the 7mm and 300 WM start to really shine in the horsepower realm. So I would honestly tell you if you don't plan to shoot beyond 500 yards there really isn't any reason to step up to a 7mm Rem Mag or 300 Win Mag unless you just want one. |
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A guy I know hunts coes deer with a 7mm mag. I was surprised at how little damage it did to the animal.
I will never get on the mag train with rifle ammo. .308 does anything I need to get done. The 6.5 makes me twitch a little, but I just have too much .308 brass to jump ship. |
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Hrm... magnum.
I'd be tempted to look for something a tad smaller diameter - 6 or 6.5mm - and reach for 4k fps.... barrels may not last long. Or... go big. Start at 338 and go up. Maybe 338-378? Again with the "quarter cup of powder per load" magnums barrels may not last that long, but at least with the larger calibers you won't want to shoot them nearly as much :) |
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Quoted: Here's some trajectory charts I made from factory loaded ammunition for each caliber so you can see them for yourself, OP. In each instance the table on the left is the 7mm Rem Mag and the table on the right is the 300 Win Mag. Each one was taken with velocities out of a 26" barrel so there's no bias as to barrel length. The red dot on the chart is when the 7mm Rem Mag starts outperforming the 300 Win Mag. 7mm Rem Mag 168gr Berger Hybrid vs. 300 Win Mag 168gr Berger Hybrid Here we have equal bullet weights. The 7mm Rem Mag pretty quickly overtakes the 300 Win Mag in velocity, energy, drop, and windage and is beating it pretty handily at 1,000 yards. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/467814/168bergervs_jpg-1828904.JPG 7mm Rem Mag 175gr ELD-X vs. 300 Win Mag 178gr ELD-X Nearly equal bullet weights. Once the 7mm gets its footing it surpasses the 300 Win Mag yet again in every measure and is beating it at 1,000 yards again. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/467814/175vs178eldx_jpg-1828908.JPG 7mm Rem Mag 175gr ELD-X vs. 300 Win Mag 212gr ELD-X Here we see the 7mm finally start lagging in energy, but it still beats the 300 Win Mag in velocity, drop, and wind drift at 1,000 yards. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/467814/175vs212eldx_jpg-1828913.JPG 7mm Rem Mag Berger 195gr EOL vs. 300 Win Mag 245gr EOL Here we compare the heaviest bullet weight for the 7mm Rem Mag to one of the heaviest for the 300 Win Mag. Like with the ELD-X the 7mm is losing to the 300 Win Mag in regard to energy, but it's beating it in velocity and drop. They're neck and neck with regard to windage. https://imgur.com/rpW3X0r.jpg View Quote W/o a reloading manual in front of me it seems you are about 250fps slow with the 168gr and 150 fps slow with the 178 in the .300 Win Mag. When I say the 7mm Mag is a fast .30-06 I mean they fill the same game type and usage. Less than 1% of shooters that actually know their rifle and cartridge well enough that they could make use of the increased ballistic coefficient in the field. i.e. Few people have any business shooting at game 400+ yards away. If you are target shooting then have at it. But pay the price with increased recoil and decreased barrel life. Which is why, except for very specific competition types, you don't see many magnums on the known distance firing line. ETA: I see you addressed the above issue more or less in subsequent posts. |
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.350 Remington Magnum ... in an easy-to-tote, 6-7lbs carbine with 18.5" barrel.
You'll either LOVE that combo or HATE it .... No 'tweeners. |
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So, correct me if anyone disagrees, I’ve come to the conclusion that 7mm mag is only a minor upgrade from 30-06 so I’d be better off getting a 300 wm, since that’s noticeably an upgrade?
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Quoted: So, correct me if anyone disagrees, I’ve come to the conclusion that 7mm mag is only a minor upgrade from 30-06 so I’d be better off getting a 300 wm, since that’s noticeably an upgrade? View Quote It's a minor upgrade depending on your use cases. If you're not going to shoot beyond 500 yards then yes the 7mm Rem Mag is a marginal upgrade. If you're shooting beyond 500 yards then the 7mm Rem Mag wipes the floor with the 30-06 and is better than the 300 Win Mag when using bullets of equal or similar weights due to the 7mm's superior ballistics. The 300 Win Mag really only starts to noticeably outgun the 7mm Rem Mag when you get into 210+ grain bullets. If you're only shooting out to 500 yards I don't see a reason to get the 7mm or 300 Win Mag unless you just want a Magnum as the 30-06 is perfectly capable itself within that range. |
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Quoted: Correct. Using my above example even if we bump the 300 Win Mag up to the 200gr ELD-X which has a .597 BC... the 175gr ELD-X out of the 7mm Rem Mag is still slightly edging it out at 1,000 yards by over 100fps and about 40 ft-lb of energy. If you're only shooting out to a few hundred yards then I'd say yeah keep the 30-06 and ignore the 7mm Rem Mag. Within 300 yards or so they are pretty similar, but once you get past 300 yards the 7mm really starts to spank the 30-06. Then again once we get to the longer ranges it even starts to pull ahead of the .300 Win Mag. The .300 WM really only starts to outclass it once you get into the real heavy 210gr or heavier bullets. Always coming in to provide the benefits of the 300 RUM. An absolute beast of a round. We are talking about it in comparison to the .300 Win Mag here! Haha. Obviously the 7mm Rem isn't going to compete with the super magnums like the .300 PRC or .300 RUM View Quote The 300 RUM is ballistically identical to the .300 Weatherby Magnum with the same barrel length. No discussion of the 300 RUM is complete without reminding us that Roy Weatherby did the same many decades ago. Only complaint I have about my Mark V 300 Weatherby is that it is very light in weight. For that reason, recoil with heavy bullets is . . . yes, beastly. Stout. |
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Quoted: The 300 RUM is ballistically identical to the .300 Weatherby Magnum with the same barrel length. No discussion of the 300 RUM is complete without reminding us that Roy Weatherby did the same many decades ago. Only complaint I have about my Mark V 300 Weatherby is that it is very light in weight. For that reason, recoil with heavy bullets is . . . yes, beastly. Stout. View Quote Not really, I have posted normal load data for both stock factory rem 700's and my custom, but it is pretty simple to load the 230 berger to 3150 plus fps out of a 26" rum factor barrel/chamber, more if you set the chamber/throat for the heavies...I will say any of them will do a great job taking big game out to 500 yards or so, the bigger cartridges just give you a bit more safety factor if you make the less than perfect shot... |
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Quoted: So, correct me if anyone disagrees, I’ve come to the conclusion that 7mm mag is only a minor upgrade from 30-06 so I’d be better off getting a 300 wm, since that’s noticeably an upgrade? View Quote For what you are trying to do they are both more than capable. As mentioned the 30-06 is pretty capable. I think I'd jump up to a 338 if I had the 30-06. |
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Quoted: Yea, pretty much. I’ve got rifles, but not a single magnum. If I were to get a magnum, it’d be one to cover all situations View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Thanks for all these informative responses. I should say recoil isn’t really an issue for me as most of my 30.06 rifles have buttplates instead of recoil pads. At most, I’d be shooting 500 yds max when I practice up to it. That’s why I’m looking for 7 mag. I think it’ll kill anything anything in NA up to that range What about the 270 WSM? That’s a new one that’s getting good reviews Do you just want a magnum? The 270WSM is a great round as is 7mm win mag. Yea, pretty much. I’ve got rifles, but not a single magnum. If I were to get a magnum, it’d be one to cover all situations Couple of follow-up thoughts for the O.P, the Remmy M600 above notwithstanding ... I have an old Ruger #1 in .300H&H that I scored for a song back in the mid-'90s. The H&H is the original 'Super 30' magnum, a venerable classic cartridge. Too cool for school. I've handloaded for it for years. It's accurate across a wide range of .30-cal bullets weights and styles. It's a keeper for sure, although a lot of hunters feel, ah, 'handicapped' by a single-shot for large or dangerous game (Moose, the big bruins). That said, if I didn't have the H&H and were upgrading in power from my .30-06, the two magnums I'd definitely consider acquiring in a bolt-gun are: (1) the 'poor man's magnum,' i.e., the .35 Whelen, and (2) the highly versatile .257 Weatherby. Yeah, they go in different directions magnum-wise, but both cartridges let you cover a lot of huntable species. (1) To me, the next practical upgrade in power from an '06 isn't to the .338WM (or any of the .33-cal class of cartridges), it's to the .35-cal class. The Whelen, being but an '06 necked-up to host .35-cal bullets, fits the same common '06 actions (Winchester, 1903 Springfield), and typically you can get into the .35W rather cheaply with a simple re-barreling job on the '06 you already own. And those big, fat, heavy .35-cal slugs (from 200gns to 300gns) have killed a lot of big and dangerous game with OSSs. Writer John Barness has been singing the praises of the various .35-caliber cartridges for just that reason for years in Rifle magazine. (2) Although spendy in the ammo department (and even for components), the .257WBY gives you a lot reach with modest recoil. It's shooting rep puts it as Roy Weatherby's most accurate cartridge, which is why it's been a popular choice for decades with shooters and hunters who otherwise wouldn't have given a second thought to owning a rifle chambered for a WBY cartridge. But in these times, you're pretty much relegated (economically) to your reloading bench for developing .257 WBY ammo, but the good news is you can actually find various .25-cal bullets in stock. |
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What are you planning to do with the magnum rifle?
A solution can’t be proposed without knowing what your objective is. |
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Quoted: What are you planning to do with the magnum rifle? A solution can’t be proposed without knowing what your objective is. View Quote Ha! One is none, two is one..... Just for fun but maybe in the future get to hunt long range Recently I’ve been watching a YouTube channel called Ovini expeditions and 7 mag seems to be common in their hunts. Awesome footage I highly recommend |
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I prefer more bullet weight to more velocity.
Get as much bullet to the animal at 2400-2800fps The 7mm REM Mag really shines with 162 and 175 bullet weights IMO and I like 7mm bullets in general. I doubt you will ever see a difference in the field between the 7mmRM and the 300WM. My favorite cartridges for hunting: 7x57. 140-175gr 300H&H. 165-220 gr 375 H&H. 235-350gr |
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