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Posted: 8/12/2022 2:03:08 PM EDT
Just opened four new MKE mags for my AP5. Problem is 2 out of the 4 will not stay locked once I audibly hear the catch engage. If I push forward behind the magazine it releases and I can pull the mag out.
Further more after inspecting the mags and looking at the mag catch I thought the fit may be a bit rough causing the catch to not fully engage. So I inserted a mag and pressed on the opposite side of the mag release button and could tell it’s not fully seated. My question: If I remove the magazine catch can I “tune” it like a AR-15 mag release? Tighten or loosen ‘till it is in it’s sweet spot? |
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MP5 mags almost sort of "rock-in" like an AK mag. Typically you insert the mag until it stops and then pull the body rearward and it should fully engage.
Also, if you're trying to insert the mags fully loaded, that's usually very difficult to do. The manual of arms is to lock the bolt open first when inserting full mags. If it is something where the spring action of the catch is dragging, I would try lubing it up and just working the release paddle a bit to see if it loosens up. You can't adjust it like an AR, since the button side is pinned to the lock arm. |
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I literally did everything you stated. That’s why I finally posted the question. As I rock the mag back into position you can hear the click. Then you can just push forward from behind the mag and it releases.
ETA: Paddle feels a bit crunchy even after pushing it over and over last night around 200 times. Your probably right and it just needs to be broken in. |
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Hmm, if it's only happening with some of the mags and not all, it could be an issue with those mags. Only obvious thing I can think of is see if the feed lips on the problem mags are maybe sitting too high or otherwise out of shape compared to the working ones. If the feed lips were too high, they could run into the bolt and make it hard to fully seat properly. If it still happens on and open bolt, that rules that out though.
Worst case, you could try taking the mag catch apart and cleaning it up a bit or seeing if there's something going on in the channel there. |
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Quoted: Hmm, if it's only happening with some of the mags and not all, it could be an issue with those mags. Only obvious thing I can think of is see if the feed lips on the problem mags are maybe sitting too high or otherwise out of shape compared to the working ones. If the feed lips were too high, they could run into the bolt and make it hard to fully seat properly. If it still happens on and open bolt, that rules that out though. Worst case, you could try taking the mag catch apart and cleaning it up a bit or seeing if there's something going on in the channel there. View Quote It’s now happening with every single mag which leads me to believe it’s a faulty mag catch. It’s being beveled with all my function checks I think or was just out of spec. I will purchase a genuine HK catch and replace it after inspecting the original. Thank you for your input. Still going to shoot it next Friday. See how it performs. Maybe filing a square ledge on the part will work who knows yet the genuine part is $20 +s/h. Thanks Day 2 of owning this pistol and it didn’t even pass day 1 function tests. Punch is ready… Paint on the mag well is already chipped up and I haven’t even shot her yet! Oh well. Attached File |
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Roll pin came out with ease and I am inspecting the parts. I will need to compare the stock HK pics of their mag catch to this one. Doesn’t seem to be anything wrong. One edge looks beveled on the forward lower edge of the mag catch. I’m new to this platform so most likely normal. Time to research.
Attached File |
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Some MKE AP5's have an enlarged mag catch hole and I'm wondering if it might be some of what's in play here. Here is a link to a post that has some information on mag catch dimensions from different sources:
https://www.hkpro.com/threads/reducing-ap5-mag-wobble.549621/ |
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Thanks H2K. I will read it. I did purchase a HK mag catch so I will see when it arrives and I install it. Also my AP5P comes in tomorrow. Will be fun to see if my mags work fine on the K model.
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how are you "tuning" an AR mag release? washers under the release?
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Quoted: how are you "tuning" an AR mag release? washers under the release? View Quote Probably the wrong term to use. And I know what your doing here. Basically I meant the fact that you have to screw it into the mag release button. You can loosen or tighten it unlike a HK clone which uses a roll pin to secure the mag release button. |
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If the new part doesnt fix your issues send it back
The only tuning that you can accomplish is by filing the top or bottom side of the mag catch on the receiver itself This will change the position of the catches timing in relation to the magazine slot However I will also add tight ones usually wear in; atleast in my experience. |
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Quoted: If the new part doesnt fix your issues send it back The only tuning that you can accomplish is by filing the top or bottom side of the mag catch on the receiver itself This will change the position of the catches timing in relation to the magazine slot However I will also add tight ones usually wear in; atleast in my experience. View Quote I don’t want to file the receiver. If the new catch doesn’t do it I will most likely send it in. ETA: this was the catch I purchased. Says it’s genuine HK part. Not sure it is at the price point. HK Catch I mention it because HKparts sells two MP5 mag catches. One that is HK and the other is USA made. |
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Quoted: Probably the wrong term to use. And I know what your doing here. Basically I meant the fact that you have to screw it into the mag release button. You can loosen or tighten it unlike a HK clone which uses a roll pin to secure the mag release button. View Quote what am I doing here? you said something I'd never heard, and am curious about. seems you think I'm trying to catch in something, but I'm not. |
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HK mag catch came in today. It will not fit properly inside the mag catch cut on the receiver.
Attached File Attached File I reinstalled the original parts and going to shoot it tomorrow. Hopefully just needs to be broken in. original catch Attached File |
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View Quote What happens if you press down on the latch itself with the mag seated as far as possible? The catches can cant when there is that much play in the slot. IE The catch itself moving upwards since there is room to do so Regardless I think its gunna have to go back. It just needs welded up and recut. Not a big deal but not something a regular joe can usually do himself If the magwell is really tight on the mags Id probably play with it a bit and firmly rock mags back and forth. |
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Quoted: What happens if you press down on the latch itself with the mag seated as far as possible? View Quote Originally this did work to seat the mag yet no longer works. If I strip the mag catch assembly and just drop the catch into place it locks up 100%. Once I add the bushing and spring the problem arises. It could be the bushing. Spacing issue preventing the mag catch to fully deploy. ETA: magwell is loose. Something is preventing the catch to fully seat and I think it’s the bushing. I’ll order a genuine and maybe file this one down a hair for shits and giggles. Or just send the thing in. |
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Quoted: Originally this did work to seat the mag yet no longer works. If I strip the mag catch assembly and just drop the catch into place it locks up 100%. Once I add the bushing and spring the problem arises. It could be the bushing. Spacing issue preventing the mag catch to fully deploy. ETA: magwell is loose. Something is preventing the catch to fully seat and I think it’s the bushing. I’ll order a genuine and maybe file this one down a hair for shits and giggles. Or just send the thing in. View Quote In my experience if you can get the magazine to seat and latch fully engaged by pressing the latch vertically down(or up depending on your situation) and maybe a bit of inward pressure it means the mag slot is miscut Idk how MKE does their stuff but the american flats you have to do a bit of fitting in this area. I would assume they do as well and perhaps someone took too much material off the top side and maybe not enough off the bottom. For the sake of discussion you could take a pic with the mag catch removed and the magazine inserted as far as it goes and see how it matches up to where the mag catch would be. I think your best bet would be to send it in vs throwing money at it honestly as likely the issue lays with the cut itself If you were inclined and wanted a project I bet you could modify the new HK catch you have to work. But that probably wont be a fun time Fwiw I dont think its the bushing as the catch just rides through it and pressure is applied to the catch after the roll pin is put in place. However it should be easy to catch if this is the issue. The latch would be in different positions after everything is installed. The only other piece the bushing contacts is the paddle release |
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Quoted: In my experience if you can get the magazine to seat and latch fully engaged by pressing the latch vertically down(or up depending on your situation) and maybe a bit of inward pressure it means the mag slot is miscut Idk how MKE does their stuff but the american flats you have to do a bit of fitting in this area. I would assume they do as well and perhaps someone took too much material off the top side and maybe not enough off the bottom. For the sake of discussion you could take a pic with the mag catch removed and the magazine inserted as far as it goes and see how it matches up to where the mag catch would be. I think your best bet would be to send it in vs throwing money at it honestly as likely the issue lays with the cut itself If you were inclined and wanted a project I bet you could modify the new HK catch you have to work. But that probably wont be a fun time Fwiw I dont think its the bushing as the catch just rides through it and pressure is applied to the catch after the roll pin is put in place. However it should be easy to catch if this is the issue. The latch would be in different positions after everything is installed. The only other piece the bushing contacts is the paddle release View Quote Excellent post. Thank you. I read it once yet need to read it again to let it all soak in. Good ideas and info. I can post pics of the mag installed without the catch yet everything is packed up for tomorrow’s shoot. Also, this is pretty good, I just returned from my FFL to see my AP5-P and sign paperwork. I brought a MKE mag with me to check this new pistol. 100% no issues. I’m like Fuuu…. |
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View Quote I don’t know what it means, if anything, but I notice the MKE mag catches usually/always sit crooked in the mag catch slot whereas HK’s don’t. |
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I checked both my AP5 and AP5-P with all 12 MKE magazines I purchased. Both are flawless. A little more play on the AP5 but no issues locking in or staying locked in with bolt closed or open. I’ll be test firing both pistols when the opportunity arises.
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For the sake of discussion you could take a pic with the mag catch removed and the magazine inserted as far as it goes and see how it matches up to where the mag catch would be. View Quote Mag is where it should be. Attached File Emailed Century days ago. No response yet. Shocking. I pick up my AP5-P today. It had zero issues with mag retention so I might try swapping the mag catch. That will resolve what the heck is going on. It just might be the receiver. Man I hate sending guns back for work. |
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Quoted: I checked both my AP5 and AP5-P with all 12 MKE magazines I purchased. Both are flawless. A little more play on the AP5 but no issues locking in or staying locked in with bolt closed or open. I’ll be test firing both pistols when the opportunity arises. View Quote Ahhh… so your the one I have been chatting with. |
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Quoted: Yep. I’m curious as to the exact cause of the problem with your gun. View Quote I figured it out. It’s the mag catch. I installed the mag catch from my AP5-P into the AP5 and it works flawlessly. So now it’s just trying to get a replacement from Century. The other option is to try HKparts in house made mag catch yet they are out of stock. Or file fit the genuine HK part. ETA: Happy I won’t have to send it in. |
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Quoted: I figured it out. It’s the mag catch. I installed the mag catch from my AP5-P into the AP5 and it works flawlessly. So now it’s just trying to get a replacement from Century. The other option is to try HKparts in house made mag catch yet they are out of stock. Or file fit the genuine HK part. ETA: Happy I won’t have to send it in. View Quote Nice! Hopefully you get it back up soon. ???? |
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Quoted: I figured it out. It’s the mag catch. I installed the mag catch from my AP5-P into the AP5 and it works flawlessly. So now it’s just trying to get a replacement from Century. The other option is to try HKparts in house made mag catch yet they are out of stock. Or file fit the genuine HK part. ETA: Happy I won’t have to send it in. View Quote so you had a couple AP5's and tried the working guns mag latch in the problem gun and that fixed it? I will say this thread saved me from a headache this past weekend. Went to a local big box store and was about to buy an AP5 and did your test method - push the mag forward and pull down. came right out. store employee's were able to duplicate it as well, brand new gun. Sure enough that gun had the exact problem you had in this thread so I didnt buy it. Went to a different shop and they had the same gun and it passed the push forward/pull test and no problems there so I picked that one up. |
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Quoted: For sure. So did you end up getting a replacement latch from Century or did you fit the HK latch to it? View Quote I called Century today and the lady told me to contact their warranty dept on their website. So waiting on a message back. I think I could file the HK mag catch to fit yet I wanted to sell the part on EE. I really want to try the HKparts.net mag catch yet I am on the waiting list. The only gripe I have with the MKE brand clones is parts availability. We should at least be able to order parts direct from MKE USA. I understand Century should make this right since they are the importer, yet some times it’s just easier to fix it yourself on your own dime. |
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Quoted: I called Century today and the lady told me to contact their warranty dept on their website. So waiting on a message back. I think I could file the HK mag catch to fit yet I wanted to sell the part on EE. I really want to try the HKparts.net mag catch yet I am on the waiting list. The only gripe I have with the MKE brand clones is parts availability. We should at least be able to order parts direct from MKE USA. I understand Century should make this right since they are the importer, yet some times it’s just easier to fix it yourself on your own dime. View Quote right, they should have parts all over the place just because things happen. ah the HK mag latch is only like $40 or something. Me being me while waiting for century to respond I would try fitting the HK latch. you might end up with a much better fitting latch. Then just hit it with some cold blue and call it a day. Is it the square portion of the latch thats larger than the square hole? trying to get an idea for where it needs to be hit with a file on the HK. Something I noticed about the "bad" gun I saw in store is on the latch the part that actually matches up with the relief cut in the mag was not perfectly square, it almost had a beveled edge. so when you pushed the mag forward it was fairly easy for it to slip under the latch. I wonder if you took a file to your problem latch and just squared up the portion (at the top) that locks the mag. |
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Quoted: ah the HK mag latch is only like $40 or something. Me being me while waiting for century to respond I would try fitting the HK latch. you might end up with a much better fitting latch. Then just hit it with some cold blue and call it a day. Is it the square portion of the latch thats larger than the square hole? trying to get an idea for where it needs to be hit with a file on the HK. Something I noticed about the "bad" gun I saw in store is on the latch the part that actually matches up with the relief cut in the mag was not perfectly square, it almost had a beveled edge. so when you pushed the mag forward it was fairly easy for it to slip under the latch. I wonder if you took a file to your problem latch and just squared up the portion (at the top) that locks the mag. View Quote Believe me the wait from Century might be a while. I have emailed them twice. I don’t think I would fit the HK mag catch, yet rather file the MKE stock part. A part of me wants to leave the stock part alone though in case Century wants it back for warranty purposes. It’s obviously a QA issue if you have seen it as well at your big box LGS. |
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ever heard anything back from century yet?
A few years ago my dad bought a wasr that had a chipped wood handguard, we sent pics and within a day they had new handguards in the mail. |
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An alternative is to bring the AP5 to a reputable HK armorer if you have one. I am blessed to have one close but my AP5 does not have the problem OP has.
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Quoted: ever heard anything back from century yet? A few years ago my dad bought a wasr that had a chipped wood handguard, we sent pics and within a day they had new handguards in the mail. View Quote Yes they emailed me and wanted me to send the firearm into them. Not going to do that since I understand the issue. So awaiting them to email me back as I asked them for a replacement part. Furthermore I contacted HKparts.net and their USA made mag catch is on order yet they do not have a ETA. So on the waiting list I go. I don’t think an HK armorer can do something that I couldn’t in my own shop yet it still is an option. |
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Quoted: Yes they emailed me and wanted me to send the firearm into them. Not going to do that since I understand the issue. So awaiting them to email me back as I asked them for a replacement part. Furthermore I contacted HKparts.net and their USA made mag catch is on order yet they do not have a ETA. So on the waiting list I go. I don’t think an HK armorer can do something that I couldn’t in my own shop yet it still is an option. View Quote that's retarded. I mean you have two of them and went through all the work to troubleshoot the problem. Took a known good latch from a working gun and put it in the problem gun - problem fixed. Maybe if you say hey i'll send you the bad latch back if you send me a replacement so they dont think you are just trying to get free parts. Having to send a gun back is a pain in the dick not to mention the turn around time. |
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Quoted: that's retarded. I mean you have two of them and went through all the work to troubleshoot the problem. Took a known good latch from a working gun and put it in the problem gun - problem fixed. Maybe if you say hey i'll send you the bad latch back if you send me a replacement so they dont think you are just trying to get free parts. Having to send a gun back is a pain in the dick not to mention the turn around time. View Quote My level of impatience and willingness to solve the problem compels me to just buy the part and install it myself. Not begging the importer for a replacement part and I get my satisfaction of not needing to send the whole damn gun back. Like you said, a pain in the dick! Everyone needs to remember that Century does not make these guns nor monkey fucks them like with AKs. They are an IMPORTER only just like Zenith. Their name is on it but they didn’t make it. MKE is the sole maker of the guns. I would NEVER send a gun in to Century and let their cursed demon monkeys mess with my gun. I have been able to “unfuck” their shit on WASR10s and FALs either on my own or with the help of a few local and very talented gunsmiths. |
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Quoted: My level of impatience and willingness to solve the problem compels me to just buy the part and install it myself. Not begging the importer for a replacement part and I get my satisfaction of not needing to send the whole damn gun back. Like you said, a pain in the dick! Everyone needs to remember that Century does not make these guns nor monkey fucks them like with AKs. They are an IMPORTER only just like Zenith. Their name is on it but they didn’t make it. MKE is the sole maker of the guns. I would NEVER send a gun in to Century and let their cursed demon monkeys mess with my gun. I have been able to “untuck” their shit on WASR10s and FALs either on my own or with the help of a few local and very talented gunsmiths. View Quote I am the same way and it sounds like OP is as well. Only problem is century isnt selling the parts. He cant just order the part to fix it. OP bought an actual HK latch to try but it wont fit in the gun - without fitting. But since he has discovered the problem he would rather sell the HK latch since its century's responsibility to remedy a defective product. But they want him to send the gun in instead of just mailing him a latch he could install and be done with the whole ordeal. |
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Quoted: I am the same way and it sounds like OP is as well. Only problem is century isnt selling the parts. He cant just order the part to fix it. OP bought an actual HK latch to try but it wont fit in the gun - without fitting. But since he has discovered the problem he would rather sell the HK latch since its century's responsibility to remedy a defective product. But they want him to send the gun in instead of just mailing him a latch he could install and be done with the whole ordeal. View Quote I support this message. |
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Quoted: I am the same way and it sounds like OP is as well. Only problem is century isnt selling the parts. He cant just order the part to fix it. OP bought an actual HK latch to try but it wont fit in the gun - without fitting. But since he has discovered the problem he would rather sell the HK latch since its century's responsibility to remedy a defective product. But they want him to send the gun in instead of just mailing him a latch he could install and be done with the whole ordeal. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: My level of impatience and willingness to solve the problem compels me to just buy the part and install it myself. Not begging the importer for a replacement part and I get my satisfaction of not needing to send the whole damn gun back. Like you said, a pain in the dick! Everyone needs to remember that Century does not make these guns nor monkey fucks them like with AKs. They are an IMPORTER only just like Zenith. Their name is on it but they didn’t make it. MKE is the sole maker of the guns. I would NEVER send a gun in to Century and let their cursed demon monkeys mess with my gun. I have been able to “unfuck” their shit on WASR10s and FALs either on my own or with the help of a few local and very talented gunsmiths. I am the same way and it sounds like OP is as well. Only problem is century isnt selling the parts. He cant just order the part to fix it. OP bought an actual HK latch to try but it wont fit in the gun - without fitting. But since he has discovered the problem he would rather sell the HK latch since its century's responsibility to remedy a defective product. But they want him to send the gun in instead of just mailing him a latch he could install and be done with the whole ordeal. HK Parts and Atlantic sell parts. I would not buy parts from Century anyway. |
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The German H&K magazine catch is most certainly an "in-spec." MP5 part. Your AP5 is supposed to be a clone of an MP5, but it will not accept an in-spec, German manufactured MP5 magazine catch. Obviously, the problem lies in the AP5 receiver's magazine catch slot. Personally, I wouldn't modify the German magazine catch, or hope to get another out of spec Turk magazine catch that happens to function.
At this point, I would be inclined to "adjust" the magazine catch slot in the out of spec AP5 receiver, so that the in-spec, German MP5 magazine catch fits. You're lucky that your AP5 receiver's magazine slot is undersized, so that it can be brought into spec. |
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Quoted: The German H&K magazine catch is most certainly an "in-spec." MP5 part. Your AP5 is supposed to be a clone of an MP5, but it will not accept an in-spec, German manufactured MP5 magazine catch. Obviously, the problem lies in the AP5 receiver's magazine catch slot. Personally, I wouldn't modify the German magazine catch, or hope to get another out of spec Turk magazine catch that happens to function. At this point, I would be inclined to "adjust" the magazine catch slot in the out of spec AP5 receiver, so that the in-spec, German MP5 magazine catch fits. You're lucky that your AP5 receiver's magazine slot is undersized, so that it can be brought into spec. View Quote I agree with you. I did get a response from century and it was exactly as expected. Sam (Century Arms) Sep 18, 2022, 13:30 EDT We unfortunately do not carry that part separately. We would need the firearm to be brought in to our gunsmith team. That’s a no. I’ll do it myself. |
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@NoEffects6
Did you get this resolved? I had the same issue with my POF. Sorry I didn't see the thread earlier. With no mag in the gun, I put a piece of leather on the end of the mag catch to protect the finish, where it locks into the mag. (On the outside of the gun.) I tapped on the end of the mag catch to drive it a little deeper into the magwell. I tested for fit. Probably had to do this 2 or 3 times to get the result I wanted, but it fixed the problem. I probably ended up driving the mag catch 4 or 5 millimeters deeper into the magwell, but it worked. I copied your pic. Where I drew the red square is where I would tap on the mag catch, with it installed of course. Attached File I can't remove a mag now without pushing the catch. Before, all I had to do was tap it forward and it would fall out. Hope you got it fixed. |
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Quoted: @NoEffects6 Did you get this resolved? I had the same issue with my POF. Sorry I didn't see the thread earlier. With no mag in the gun, I put a piece of leather on the end of the mag catch to protect the finish, where it locks into the mag. (On the outside of the gun.) I tapped on the end of the mag catch to drive it a little deeper into the magwell. I tested for fit. Probably had to do this 2 or 3 times to get the result I wanted, but it fixed the problem. I probably ended up driving the mag catch 4 or 5 millimeters deeper into the magwell, but it worked. I copied your pic. Where I drew the red square is where I would tap on the mag catch, with it installed of course. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/2614/MP5_mag_catch_jpg-2541792.JPG Hope you got it fixed. View Quote Thank you I will give this a try and report back. ETA: Hit bottom of the mag catch with a very fine file. It was locking up 100% so I cold blued it and reinstalled. Attached File Now did a test after reinstall and it’s back to old issue. I’ll try more tomorrow. |
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3 new HK 10 rnd mags came in. All three lock up without issue. This just keeps getting better.
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Quoted: 3 new HK 10 rnd mags came in. All three lock up without issue. This just keeps getting better. View Quote you know something you might try is fitting a small screwdriver into the lip on all the other mags that dont lock up and pry the top lip out just a little further. they wouldnt need much at all since the engagement on MP5's on the mags is barely 1/8th inch - this is kinda the inverse of what the other poster posted about smacking your mag latch to deepen the recess on the mags more. If you could bend that lip out on the mags just a hair more I bet you would be GTG. |
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Quoted: you know something you might try is fitting a small screwdriver into the lip on all the other mags that dont lock up and pry the top lip out just a little further. they wouldnt need much at all since the engagement on MP5's on the mags is barely 1/8th inch - this is kinda the inverse of what the other poster posted about smacking your mag latch to deepen the recess on the mags more. If you could bend that lip out on the mags just a hair more I bet you would be GTG. View Quote Don’t want to modify the mags. |
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