Last year I was looking at prices and I swear the MAC10's and some WWII subguns were more like $4k, I just looked yesterday and they seem to now be more like $8k.  Am I just delusional or have those gone up in price that much in just a year or so?

Kinda hoping that once I get through school I can start saving to buy something on the lower price end.

Macs jumped in price because of Lage (223)uppers.

MAC's jumped past $5K several years ago.  It is crazy the way the prices on some of the MG's have gone up.  I listed 4 HK sears at $35K on Sturmgeweghr and sold them in a day about 6 months back.  Looks like I could get $38 to $40 today.

Man, looks my only chance to get into the NFA game may be suppressors, thankfully those are still allowed to be manufactured.

Lol go buy a rimfire can now!!!

M10's haven't been 4K in several years and prices keep steadily climbing.

Tarheel state has a m16 A1 a few months back for 20k. It wasn’t a cherry but wasn’t horrible

That's about the going rate for a non Colt or conversion m16. If you want a Colt A1 you got to Pony up at least 27K.

Purchased an M/11 from NFA sales in 2014 for $4500. Those days are long gone. These are the good ole days now.

That one was a Colt

If anyone knows anyone with an M16 RDIAS for under 35k somewhere in FL, let me know, cash in hand ready to buy lol

in the early 2000's I should have been buying drop in auto sears, they were between 8 and $12,000 at the time. So were Colt m16's.

So they tripled in value?  Apple stock is worth 100 times what it did in 2002 for comparison.

You can't take Apple stock to the range and shoot it.

technically you could have had a better return in the stock market.

MGs are not a retirement strategy. But its a fun hobby that goes up in value, which is very unusually for most hobbies.

Machine guns are actually a rather poor monetary investment.  There are many machine gun ownership cost factors - factors that the machine gun owning enthusiast sometimes fails to recognize and address - that detract from the investment value of machine guns.  Such expenses as, and not necessarily limited to: ammo cost; wear and tear on gun parts; added fire and theft loss insurance as an additional rider on their home owners insurance or as a separate policy; the cost and bother (especially an issue with belt fed machine guns) of trips to a suitable (i.e., full auto and often caliber accepting) range and if one is using one’s own property, the initial cost, plus on going taxes, insurance and other upkeep costs on the property; gun club/range membership initial fee and continuing dues if one shoots at such a venue; and opportunity cost of otherwise investing the funds used to purchase the machine gun.  Meanwhile, with other investments such as stocks, index funds, certificates of deposit, bonds, etc. the ownership expenses are relatively low.  Of course there are some machine gun enthusiasts with safe queens that they enjoy for what they are regardless of strictly monetary value, so their ammo and wear and tear costs may be minimal.

Specifically regarding ammo cost.  Take a SWD M11/9 with a Lage MAX11/15 upper as an example.  The M11/15 has a projected cost of a little over $3000 with shipping.  Assume XM193 5.56 ammo at $365 per 1000 rounds, not taking into account that cost can be reduced somewhat by reloading, and also assume a rate of fire of 700 rounds per minute.  A shooter will spend the entire $3000 cost of the MAX11/15 with less than 12 minutes of time on the trigger turning ammo into smoke and noise.  While you can reduce the ammo cost somewhat by reloading (keeping in mind that open bolt, pistol caliber submachine guns may be more destructive of brass than closed bolt firearms), that does not do much to eliminate what is probably the largest single expense of long term machine gun ownership; or address any of the other above noted machine gun ownership related costs.

MHO, YMMV, etc.

I sold all my stock and bought a condo and a lightning link. No Ragrets.

MG's guns would not be a money making venture as I would never want to sell one. I just don't want to pay 3 times as much for it. I should have bought years ago.

This may not be the popular thing to say but I’ve noticed prices going down lately. While I still think overall things will trend up over time (barring the economy crashing or something similar) it does seem like the market is softening right now. I bought an Uzi a couple months ago. I have seen prices drop some since I purchased. Fortunately I got what was a good price at the time.

Depends on the MG but in general the market is slow. But the whole firearm industry is slow ,demand for title 1 firearms is down, there is no wait for range time, ammo is dirt cheap, etc...

^^^^This!!  You know the saying, buy em cheap and stack em deep. Now it the time to stock on ammo for the long haul. Or as one member said " you can never pay too much for a machinegun, you can only pay it too soon."

I think that in the case of the uzi, the M-11/9 is stealing much of it’s thunder with the Lage/shockwave/CF-W aftermarket support going for it.  I recently purchased an M-11/9 specifically because of that aftermarket support.  Before I even knew about that support I was certain I wanted an uzi, the significantly lower price of the M-11/9 made it a no brainer.  I think that is why you see a ton of uzis sitting in inventory and M-11/9s moving fairly quickly.... but yes, as a whole the firearms industry is in the “Trump slump” and I am damn sure doing my best to take advantage of it.

It was just a few years ago that customers were rushing to local gunshops whenever a pallet of 9mm would arrive just to get their hands on two boxes of 115gr for $15/box. It'd be gone in a matter of hours, .22lr...forget about it. Now the shelves are bursting with cheap ammo. Now is the time to buy and stock up, because just like a pendulum this relatively calm climate will swing the other way eventually.

For SMG pricing, most people look here as a general indicator:

http://www.machinegunpriceguide.com/html/subguns.html

MHO, YMMV, etc.

Last year M-10's were between $6500 and $7K

Machine gun price guide  edit: beat

Attached File

I paid $2650 for my PS M10/45, and $6k for my AC556.

Never expected the day where the M10 would be worth more than the AC556, but it's getting pretty darn close.

With all the Lage products being released the mac family is arguably a better platform. Multiple subgun options, 22lr, now 5.56 and probably much more in the future. Ive got fingers crossed for something in 308

Does anyone else think the bumpstocks being banned will impact the peices of the m11/10s? I feel like there are now thousands of folks who have gotten a slight taste for the thrill of MGs and that may be a fire they cant putout???

It is possible, but I doubt it will change prices of entry level MGs very much.

Keep in mind that people who bought bump stocks did so because transferable MGs were out of their price range. Bump stocks being banned does not change their price rang much.

It also might scare some investors away. After all of the ATF can ban bump stocks on a whim what's to say they decided to interpret Hughes or the NFA differently.

I know no one can predict the future, but this July or August I may be able to pay cash for some sort of MAC or UZI.
In 7 or 8 months should the prices be about the same as they are now?
I’m aware the Lage upper popularity has made the MAC family much more desirable now, especially with the 5.56 upper on the horizon.

FWIW, Scalia is dead and gone.  Kennedy, though conservative on many issues and liberal on others, is also gone.  Both were replaced by more judicially consistently conservative individuals.

MHO, YMMV, etc.

Thanks bigbore.
I am leaning toward an UZI.
I have a tiny bit of subgun experience. A now deceased friend had a MAC 10 and I’ve rented an UZI at the Creek and done the jungle walk a few times.
I know it’s a laughable comparison, but I have a Norinco 320 and Cobray M11/9 (both semi of course) and I do prefer the UZI in my very limited experience.

The Uzi is iconic and was the first MG I lusted after. I have full size and mini semi versions. I missed a good deal on one at an estate sale and had to sit on the sidelines for a while. The prices climbed out of my budget when I ready to buy and ended up with an M-11/nine. Not sorry about that purchase at all. Then circumstances changed for the good and I was able to pick up an M-16 conversion in-state for well below market price at the time. Those two will about cover all the calibers I wish to shoot full auto. But the Uzi is still one of my favorites.

Get the uzi.

Trying to buy an Uzi this summer or fall. The prices are not ridiculous yet.
Uzi Video

Now is a great time to buy. I got 5 machine guns this year. That being said I’m hesitatant to tie up more funds currently because wait times are so long and I’m waiting on several double transfers. With this background check business randomly holding up people for months longer. I still want another Uzi as I got a good deal on a vector but want an IMI gun too. I was looking at M16’s but the lage max  11/15 will scratch my rifle itch.

Unfortunately Kavenaugh has written in a dissent that the ban on MGs is constitutional. He also said that semiautos and standard capacity mags were in common use, thus protected under the Heller ruling.

Not that I ever expect 922(o) ruled unconstitutional, that is disheartening to learn.  Here is a link to National Review for others to read for themselves.

https://www.nationalreview.com/bench-memos/judge-kavanaughs-record-on-second-amendment-gun-rights/

Too bad we don’t have 5-6 Clarence Thomas’ on the bench, he’s probably the only one that would find a machine gun ban unconstitutional.

This.

If you want a transferable but can't afford it now, get the best loan you can and buy it anyway.
The difference you'd pay when you can afford it will likely be much greater than the loan interest.

I never did that. Got a bunch of post-86 MGs instead.

Since you mention this can I get your opinion? I am expecting a bonus each year and for this year I can get the first 2 yearly bonuses now. This would give me enough for a HK sear, but would put me and my wife in a higher tax bracket. Should I get both bonuses or wait it out and get them once a year.

That’s an accountant level question, brother. If the absolute dollar amount you pay in taxes goes up significantly you may be better off taking a loan or using a CC to purchase.

Yeah man...
You need a CPA.

Or calculate the difference you'd pay in taxes (if you can figure that yourself) and go from there.

I've always been in the second lowest tax bracket, so it's never been a concern of mine.

The US has a progressive tax system so it doesn't really matter what tax bracket you are in.

For example:
10% bracket is $0-$19,400
15% bracket is $19,401-$78,950

If you make $19,400 it is all taxed at 10%
If you make $19,401 the first $19,400 it is all taxed at 10% and $1 is taxed at 12%.

Taking a larger bonus does not push all of your earnings into a higher tax bracket, just the portion earned in that higher bracket. By taking a larger bonus some of the money may be taxed at a higher bracket, but likely not all of it and possibly none of it. Even then we are talking maybe 2% extra taxes which isn't much, and is less than most Mgs appreciate per year.

I would take the bonus and get the MG purchased and paperwork started.

Also confirm your wife is down with you spending $30-35k on a MG.

Not knowing the exact numbers but spit-balling that both bonuses are in the $20,000 range given you need both to take down an HK sear at $30,000ish.

The worst case scenario under a married filing jointly at the Federal level would be if your income with “one” bonus topped out at $77,400 which is the top of the 12% top marginal tax bracket and every penny of the second “$20K” bonus fell over the $77,400 threshold and into the next marginal bracket at 22%.

Scenario 1:

Year 1 = Taxable Income $57,400 + $20,000 Bonus = $77,400 total which would net  $8,907 in tax due.   ($19,050 @ 10% = $1,905 +  $58,350 @ 12% = $7,002)
Year 2 = Taxable Income $57,400 + $20,000 Bonus = $77,400 total which would net  $8,907 in tax due.   ($19,050 @ 10% = $1,905 +  $58,350 @ 12% = $7,002)

Total tax bill is $17,814 between the two years.

Scenario 2:

Year 1 = Taxable Income $57,400 + $20,000 Bonus 1 + $20,000 Bonus 2 = $97,400 total which would net  $13,307 in tax due.    ($19,050 at 10% = $1,905 +  $58,350 at 12% = $7,002 + $20,000 @22% = $4,400)
Year 2 = Taxable Income $57,400 + no bonus = $57,400 total which would net $6,507 in tax due.    ($19,050 at 10% = $1,905 +  $38,350 at 12% = $4,602)

Total tax bill is $19,814 between the two years.

The difference in tax liability between the two scenarios is $2000.

Keep in mind this is probably the worst case scenario as the percent spread between tax brackets only narrows you go up, varying between 2% and 8% (vs. the 10% jump between the 12% and 22% brackets) so the marginal tax liability difference of dollars falling into the next bracket are smaller.  *not inclusive of AMT calculations.

Also, the odds of every penny of a second bonus falling into the next bracket is probably infinitesimally small as well so the reality is the real world scenario is probably significantly less.

Attached File


Knowing your base taxable income (after deductions) and the actual bonus amounts it should be pretty straight forward to calculate the actual tax difference between the two scenarios.

However, my take is that a $2,000 of tax liability difference (under the worst scenario jumping between the 12 and 22% bracket) shouldn’t be a significant concern if you are in the financial position to spend $30K on a non-essential luxury firearm purchase.

Hope this helps.

Thanks for all the input. I’m in the military and I’m getting a commissioning bonus for a couple of years. I never got a bonus while I was enlisted so it’s nice I’m finally getting one now. I got into guns in 2009, but I bought semi autos . I figured I might as well buy a HK sear now before prices keep getting higher.

That is what I notice for asking price but I also do not see any bids.

I too am interested in opinions on MG prices.
Since the market requires both a seller and a buyer, what constitutes a fair market price considering the market, currently, appears to hold such asking prices as too high to accept.

Just noticed I left out the non-Colt price...and so others do not have to go look, 1911nick was replying to a post about a non Colt converted rifle and the price mentioned was $20k