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Posted: 5/19/2020 8:59:35 AM EDT
[#1]
I do my m2 loads with imr-4895. I like h335, but I don't know how well it would work here.
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Posted: 5/19/2020 9:19:54 AM EDT
[#2]
I'm out
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Posted: 5/19/2020 12:03:46 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mlg123: I suspect it will also fall short of the <15" @ 600yd spec. To put this into perspective, 15" @ 600yd is about 2.5 MOA. So, don't expect sub 2.5 MOA. I'd bet the biggest part of that spread is caused by the bullet. |
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Posted: 5/19/2020 2:42:13 PM EDT
[#4]
I think 47 grains is little hot. Does Hornady list any data using H335 in a Garand? If so, I would use their data.
I'm not at home. or I would look it up. Most U.S. M2 ball I have fired through my Garands only traveled at 2600 fps. 150 grain flat base bullets. Greek ammo was much faster. |
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Posted: 5/19/2020 2:59:53 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By borderpatrol: I think 47 grains is little hot. Does Hornady list any data using H335 in a Garand? If so, I would use their data. I'm not at home. or I would look it up. Most U.S. M2 ball I have fired through my Garands only traveled at 2600 fps. 150 grain flat base bullets. Greek ammo was much faster. Yes they do. That's where I got the formula. 47 gn was the high end. I was asking about M2 ball because that's what was used in WW2. I read on the CMP forum that they went to M2 in 1938. M1 ball used a 173 ? gr bullet. I have an '03 that may have a fubar barrel. I was looking for a decent load to teat it with. I thought, why not try military ammo. Or something close to it. |
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Posted: 5/19/2020 4:22:16 PM EDT
[#6]
Out
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Posted: 5/19/2020 6:00:04 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mlg123: Just asking, why do you think the barrel is fubar? bad bore? Or, bad muzzle? MLG The bore is nasty. Looks frosted, maybe pitted. I took it to the range, and out of 40 rounds, I think 6 hit the target @50yrds. There were a few fliers as well. I'm trying to clean it better, to see if it helps. I see rifling that looks decent. I plugged the barrel, and soaked it with Hilco Lube. That's a mil spec penetrating oil. I also have some bore paste and Kroil coming from Brownells. I'd hate to re-barrel an original non import rifle. The CMP gets $ 375 + shipping, with a 4-8 month wait. Haven't decided what to do with it yet. Maybe just sell it. |
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Posted: 5/19/2020 6:13:48 PM EDT
[#8]
Out
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Posted: 5/19/2020 9:32:42 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Cartridge, Caliber .30, Ball, M2 is a government load designed to meet very precise mil specs and was developed specifically for the M1 Garand but able to function as a general purpose loading for machine guns. MLG To the OP.. If you think your bore is shot your choice of powder and bullet isn't going to make a bad barrel better. A good accuracy load for the garand/1903/1917 is 48.0 varget and a 168gr SMK. If your rifle won't shoot that load well...then its the rifle...or you. If your barrel is as bad as you say...send it CMP for a new criterion barrel...you will be amazed at how well it shoots. @Colddeadhands61 Can you take pics of the muzzle? It's possible you may get by with a recrown. |
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Posted: 5/20/2020 5:40:12 AM EDT
[#10]
I was hoping that a good scrubbing might help. When I shot it last, I just ran some Hoppe's through it. That's when it was all over the place.
None of my surplus guns did that. Hell, I got an M44 Mosin from AIM that was nasty, and it shot a great group, rapid firing. Once I re-barrel it, IMHO, it loses it's value. At that point, I may as well "restore" it. |
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Posted: 5/20/2020 8:47:26 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I was hoping that a good scrubbing might help. When I shot it last, I just ran some Hoppe's through it. That's when it was all over the place. None of my surplus guns did that. Hell, I got an M44 Mosin from AIM that was nasty, and it shot a great group, rapid firing. Once I re-barrel it, IMHO, it loses it's value. At that point, I may as well "restore" it. Go up the curio and relic section and post some good pics of it and lets see what you have.. :) |
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Posted: 5/20/2020 10:45:41 AM EDT
[#12]
Out
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Posted: 5/20/2020 11:20:40 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: In retrospect, you're right, me saying that the Ball M2 was designed specifically for the Garand isn't really correct. But, the M1 Garand had a large part in the M2 cartridge development. This being the IMR 4895 powder developed specifically for the M2 cartridge. The M1 cartridge was deemed too powerful for machine gun use so they attempted to cease production of it and reconsider the original M1906 cartridge which the M2 duplicates almost exactly (but not as accurate). However, in 1936, they had just adopted a new battle rifle with a gas trap that did function well with the M2 and the M1906. But, in 1937 they decided that the gas trap had to go and developed/implemented the long rod gas piston. This created problems that they had to solve with the Ball M2 cartridge as adopted in 1938. The issue was the slower burning IMR 1147 and IMR 1185 powders used in the M1906 and M2 respectively. Issue being too much gas pressure at the gas port. The solution was the development of the faster burning IMR 4895 specifically for the M2 cartridge. The down side is that IMR 4895 was no where near as accurate in the .30-06 as IMR 1147 (later became IMR 4320) or IMR 1185 (discontinued along with the M1 cartridge) when applied to target/sharp shooting. The army wasn't really happy about this but had to settle for it as it was perfectly suitable for general rifleman use and all machine gun applications. And, they needed the new cartridge in production NOW. For the most part, sharpshooters equipped with M1903 rifles were still issued the much more accurate Ball M1 ammo (it was still used as match ammo after the war) as the Ball M2 was deemed unsuitable for this application (could not meet the 1.25 MOA requirement). MLG Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: No. Not true...M2 was adopted as a replacement for M1 Ball. Not designed at all for the garand. In retrospect, you're right, me saying that the Ball M2 was designed specifically for the Garand isn't really correct. But, the M1 Garand had a large part in the M2 cartridge development. This being the IMR 4895 powder developed specifically for the M2 cartridge. The M1 cartridge was deemed too powerful for machine gun use so they attempted to cease production of it and reconsider the original M1906 cartridge which the M2 duplicates almost exactly (but not as accurate). However, in 1936, they had just adopted a new battle rifle with a gas trap that did function well with the M2 and the M1906. But, in 1937 they decided that the gas trap had to go and developed/implemented the long rod gas piston. This created problems that they had to solve with the Ball M2 cartridge as adopted in 1938. The issue was the slower burning IMR 1147 and IMR 1185 powders used in the M1906 and M2 respectively. Issue being too much gas pressure at the gas port. The solution was the development of the faster burning IMR 4895 specifically for the M2 cartridge. The down side is that IMR 4895 was no where near as accurate in the .30-06 as IMR 1147 (later became IMR 4320) or IMR 1185 (discontinued along with the M1 cartridge) when applied to target/sharp shooting. The army wasn't really happy about this but had to settle for it as it was perfectly suitable for general rifleman use and all machine gun applications. And, they needed the new cartridge in production NOW. For the most part, sharpshooters equipped with M1903 rifles were still issued the much more accurate Ball M1 ammo (it was still used as match ammo after the war) as the Ball M2 was deemed unsuitable for this application (could not meet the 1.25 MOA requirement). MLG M2 ball came about because the M1 ball outshot many NG range safety zones. The NG asked for a small run of M1906 ball that they could use for training. While retaining M1 ball as combat ammo. The new M1906 was renamed M2 ball and after some testing the ordnance board decided that long range benefits of M1 ball weren't needed and since M2 ball was cheaper to make and easier on the shooter it was a logical choice. There were no issues shooting M1 ball in machine guns or with M2 ball in gas traps. It was purely based on bullet performance. All 30 Cal weapons shot either loading just fine with no issues. |
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Posted: 5/20/2020 2:10:53 PM EDT
[#14]
Why mimic M2? Lighter and cheaper bullets will do just as good under 200 yards with less recoil. Hodgdon has H335 load data for the lighter bullets. Unless you are practicing to win the national matches, powder and bullets do not matter as much.
If you are not in a rush to rebarrel, you may turn up a good used or NOS Remington 03 barrel. |
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Posted: 5/20/2020 2:38:08 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jeremy2171: Well it may have already been rebuilt...if it's an all correct Rem 1903 with Rem parts and correct but worn it would have some value. But if it's through any rebuilds...then don't worry about the effect on value a new barrel will have. Go up the curio and relic section and post some good pics of it and lets see what you have.. :) It's all Remington and original. Receiver dates to 6/42, RA barrel dated 5/42, type 6 stock (pre type C), R1 stamp on the bolt. I was told it was a vet bring back. No papers, so, nice story. What's interesting is, it had a broke firing pin (R marked). I remember hearing that upon returning home, rifles has to be deactivated aboard ship. Urban legend or truth. Who knows ? I also have a 1942 dated bayonet with the scabbard. IDK if it's the.one it was issued with. |
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Posted: 5/20/2020 3:10:46 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's all Remington and original. Receiver dates to 6/42, RA barrel dated 5/42, type 6 stock (pre type C), R1 stamp on the bolt. I was told it was a vet bring back. No papers, so, nice story. What's interesting is, it had a broke firing pin (R marked). I remember hearing that upon returning home, rifles has to be deactivated aboard ship. Urban legend or truth. Who knows ? I also have a 1942 dated bayonet with the scabbard. IDK if it's the.one it was issued with. |
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Posted: 5/20/2020 3:22:35 PM EDT
[#17]
I'll do that. Thanks
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Posted: 5/21/2020 11:22:25 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yes they do. That's where I got the formula. 47 gn was the high end. I was asking about M2 ball because that's what was used in WW2. I read on the CMP forum that they went to M2 in 1938. M1 ball used a 173 ? gr bullet. I have an '03 that may have a fubar barrel. I was looking for a decent load to teat it with. I thought, why not try military ammo. Or something close to it. Quote HistoryQuoted: Originally Posted By borderpatrol: I think 47 grains is little hot. Does Hornady list any data using H335 in a Garand? If so, I would use their data. I'm not at home. or I would look it up. Most U.S. M2 ball I have fired through my Garands only traveled at 2600 fps. 150 grain flat base bullets. Greek ammo was much faster. Yes they do. That's where I got the formula. 47 gn was the high end. I was asking about M2 ball because that's what was used in WW2. I read on the CMP forum that they went to M2 in 1938. M1 ball used a 173 ? gr bullet. I have an '03 that may have a fubar barrel. I was looking for a decent load to teat it with. I thought, why not try military ammo. Or something close to it. GI brass deduct 2 grains and retry |
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Posted: 5/22/2020 8:51:02 AM EDT
[#19]
Greek surplus can be "hotter" than US surplus ammo.
HXP shoots/functions fine in my M1 Garands. In the 03A3 I have to really work the bolt to get it to start upwards to extract the empty. I remember commenting on that and some people replied they'd had the same issue with their Springfields. H335 works in .30-06 (or .308) but I never got the groups out of it I got with IMR4895. Best groups I got from my 03A4 were with IMR4350. These days I load my M1/03/M1917 ammo with Hornady 150 grain FMJBT and IMR4895. I did a small experiment with TAC and 150 grain FMJBT in one of the M1 Garands a few years back and I will be using more TAC for the M1's in the future. Meters so much better than IMR4895. |
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