Looking to buy Browning M2/M3 HB semi - Page 1

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Looking to buy Browning M2/M3 HB semi

Posted: 7/29/2018 6:59:25 PM EDT

After a loooong itch I'm ready to scratch the 50BMG belt fed bug.
I'm looking at either purchasing a prebuilt semi gun or get a parts kit, semi conversion parts and build it myself. I have built a couple of 1919a4 from kits and I have a well set up machine shop so no problem on building one. I have a bolt gun in 50BMG so no stranger to shooting or reloading for them.

I want this as either the M2hb or the converted M3hb. Seems the M2 guns are getting scarce compared to the M3. I have no preference at this time for either other than desiring the HB ground version.
The bit of searching I've done has the semi-auto guns in the $10-13k range. Parts kits are $4-5k minus the side plate, barrel & semi parts. Total on the parts is around $6-8k depending on upgrades.
The only place I found for kits is Gryphos. I know nothing about the company so any experience with them is appreciated.

The semi conversion parts supplier would most likely be Karma Metal Products. I purchased my 1919a4 semi parts from them and they were good to deal with.

So, better to build and save some $$ or buy complete and be done? (I'm retired so time to build is not a constraint)
Anyone have some good leads on complete guns or parts kits?
If you own a semi or built one your comments are most welcome.

Posted: 7/29/2018 9:15:39 PM EDT

[#1]

Check on 1919a4.com as kits come up for sale there from time to time. There's also an M2 forum there for guys looking at building their own.

If you want to buy a complete gun, I would go with Central Wisconsin Armory. Call them and talk to Ed, he'll set you up with a gun that you'll be happy with for a long time.

Posted: 7/29/2018 10:42:38 PM EDT

[#2]

May be one available from the former Vice-Chairman of the FCSA.
Contact me if you want to pursue this approach.

Posted: 7/30/2018 9:40:06 AM EDT

[#3]

Retired, and you have a decent shop? Build it yourself and save $8-10k. It buys a lot of ammo or components for reloading.

Posted: 7/30/2018 9:55:36 AM EDT

[#4]

Tag.

Posted: 7/30/2018 8:27:15 PM EDT

[#5]

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Retired, and you have a decent shop? Build it yourself and save $8-10k. It buys a lot of ammo or components for reloading.

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I wish I had those skills. Plus I don't trust my heat treating ability to keep me from 50BMG 'pressure of destruction' off my face.

Posted: 7/31/2018 10:22:25 AM EDT

[#6]

There's very little to go wrong, the M2 is a very stout design and to convert it to semi involves no work on the pressure parts. Your biggest risk is messing up the riveting of the side plates, and that's easily avoided with some care. That, or you can drill/tap/bolt it together... not authentic, but perfectly good and able to come apart fairly easily if needed.

Posted: 7/31/2018 10:29:59 AM EDT

[#7]

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Tag.

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Posted: 7/31/2018 10:37:15 AM EDT

[#8]

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There's very little to go wrong, the M2 is a very stout design and to convert it to semi involves no work on the pressure parts. Your biggest risk is messing up the riveting of the side plates, and that's easily avoided with some care. That, or you can drill/tap/bolt it together... not authentic, but perfectly good and able to come apart fairly easily if needed.

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I have built two 1919a4 from part kits so I'm not concerned about building a 50 from parts. Making the parts from scratch is beyond my current ability (lots of complicated contours and curves that would need a lot of jigs) and there are no detailed drawings available that I know of.

It's build it from per-existing parts or buy a complete gun.

Posted: 7/31/2018 10:38:34 AM EDT

[#9]

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Quoted:
Check on 1919a4.com as kits come up for sale there from time to time. There's also an M2 forum there for guys looking at building their own.

If you want to buy a complete gun, I would go with Central Wisconsin Armory. Call them and talk to Ed, he'll set you up with a gun that you'll be happy with for a long time.

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I'm a member there and have a lead on a parts kit from a member of that forum.
Thanks

Posted: 7/31/2018 10:38:56 AM EDT

[#10]

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May be one available from the former Vice-Chairman of the FCSA.
Contact me if you want to pursue this approach.

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IM sent

Posted: 7/31/2018 12:38:20 PM EDT

[#11]

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Quoted:
There's very little to go wrong, the M2 is a very stout design and to convert it to semi involves no work on the pressure parts. Your biggest risk is messing up the riveting of the side plates, and that's easily avoided with some care. That, or you can drill/tap/bolt it together... not authentic, but perfectly good and able to come apart fairly easily if needed.

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I don't think it's as simple as drill/tap/bolt it together as that won't pass mustard with the Fed's. It would be similar to a 1919 that if bolts/screws (as opposed to rivets) where used then you would also need deep penetrating welds of the right side plate to the trunion, top plate, and bottom plate in order to have a "permanent" assembly.

Posted: 7/31/2018 1:08:08 PM EDT

[#12]

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I don't think it's as simple as drill/tap/bolt it together as that won't pass mustard with the Fed's. It would be similar to a 1919 that if bolts/screws (as opposed to rivets) where used then you would also need deep penetrating welds of the right side plate to the trunion, top plate, and bottom plate in order to have a "permanent" assembly.

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Uh-oh, when did that change?

Posted: 7/31/2018 1:18:09 PM EDT

[#13]

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Uh-oh, when did that change?

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From my understanding welding the right side plate had been that way from the start. It was then later removed by an ATF letter that recognized RIVETS as not being easily convertible. That is how it is on the 1919 and the M2's are so similar in those regards I would imagine it being the same for them.

Posted: 7/31/2018 2:16:30 PM EDT

[#14]

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From my understanding welding the right side plate had been that way from the start. It was then later removed by an ATF letter that recognized RIVETS as not being easily convertible. That is how it is on the 1919 and the M2's are so similar in those regards I would imagine it being the same for them.

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Quoted:

Quoted:

Uh-oh, when did that change?

From my understanding welding the right side plate had been that way from the start. It was then later removed by an ATF letter that recognized RIVETS as not being easily convertible. That is how it is on the 1919 and the M2's are so similar in those regards I would imagine it being the same for them.

This is my understanding as well.

Posted: 7/31/2018 3:56:38 PM EDT

[#15]

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From my understanding welding the right side plate had been that way from the start. It was then later removed by an ATF letter that recognized RIVETS as not being easily convertible. That is how it is on the 1919 and the M2's are so similar in those regards I would imagine it being the same for them.

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That's interesting, and unfortunately it means that at least one manufacturer was building them improperly a while back. I wish I could remember the name, but they were certainly bolted together on one side.

Posted: 7/31/2018 6:47:16 PM EDT

[#16]

I would either buy or rent a set of bucking bars and buy a press from harbor freight. Unless you already have one from building a 1919.

I thought I recognized the name from the forum, ask on it and I bet someone has the plans for putting an M2 together.

If you can't find the plans let me know and I'll ask MrBen where he got his. Unless he spots this post and puts up a link to one.

Posted: 8/1/2018 11:44:30 AM EDT

[#17]

I built mine after building a couple 1919s

got the gryphos kit with the machining already done for the semi trigger. I think it was 3500 IIRC. It was the M3/HB setup

get bucking bars, I use a large screw on the 1919s but the bucking bars were so nice on the 50.

I used the KMP as well.

I got a sideplate from a guy on the 191a4 forum.

It went together just fine. I followed a set of instructions on a forum. Basically a big 1919.

I did have to fiddle with the striker/trigger setup a few times but that was it.

I made a homemade crank for it (old archive thread) and shot it a few times.

I would say build it

eta gryphos is GTG. I talked with him on the phone awhile to nail down what I wanted. He is sometimes late on emails as he travels but he always followed up

Posted: 8/1/2018 12:00:02 PM EDT

[#18]

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I built mine after building a couple 1919s

got the gryphos kit with the machining already done for the semi trigger. I think it was 3500 IIRC. It was the M3/HB setup

get bucking bars, I use a large screw on the 1919s but the bucking bars were so nice on the 50.

I used the KMP as well.

I got a sideplate from a guy on the 191a4 forum.

It went together just fine. I followed a set of instructions on a forum. Basically a big 1919.

I did have to fiddle with the striker/trigger setup a few times but that was it.

I made a homemade crank for it (old archive thread) and shot it a few times.

I would say build it

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What condition was the gryphos kit parts? New, some wear, pitted etc? Barrel plain steel or chrome lined?
Gryphos is difficult to contact so I'm waiting to hear back on what they have and at what price. I'm also waiting on a call back from KMP as they list completed 50BMG semi guns as an option.

The big determining factor for build or buy is the cost differential and the quality of the parts kit. I don't want a bunch of pitted parts that will look like hell.
If nothing looks good I may wait for the big SAR show in Phoenix to see what turns up.

Posted: 8/1/2018 2:33:47 PM EDT

[#19]

My parts kits had no rust (except the new rivets).

The rear sight had been blasted/re-parked (some old pitting)

shroud was NOS,
I already had a barrel (stellite),
charging handle was use but had original park(darker almost blackish),
rest was used with original grey park.

He explained all this on the phone when I got it.

There was nothing that was "crap" IMO. I dont know how the kits are today, mine was from 14 YAG

Posted: 8/1/2018 2:59:36 PM EDT

[#20]

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Quoted:
My parts kits had no rust (except the new rivets).

The rear sight had been blasted/re-parked (some old pitting)

shroud was NOS,
I already had a barrel (stellite),
charging handle was use but had original park(darker almost blackish),
rest was used with original grey park.

He explained all this on the phone when I got it.

There was nothing that was "crap" IMO. I dont know how the kits are today, mine was from 14 YAG

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Thanks for the info

Posted: 8/3/2018 10:07:03 AM EDT

[#21]

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I'm also waiting on a call back from KMP as they list completed 50BMG semi guns as an option.

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@Rich_V did you get a price list from KMP on the complete guns? I am interested in the same as you either going the parts kit route vs buying complete.

Posted: 8/3/2018 10:23:18 AM EDT

[#22]

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@Rich_V did you get a price list from KMP on the complete guns? I am interested in the same as you either going the parts kit route vs buying complete.

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Not yet

Posted: 8/3/2018 11:45:10 AM EDT

[#23]

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@Rich_V did you get a price list from KMP on the complete guns? I am interested in the same as you either going the parts kit route vs buying complete.

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Quoted:

I'm also waiting on a call back from KMP as they list completed 50BMG semi guns as an option.

@Rich_V did you get a price list from KMP on the complete guns? I am interested in the same as you either going the parts kit route vs buying complete.

This interests me as well.

Posted: 8/3/2018 12:33:04 PM EDT

[#24]

Spoke with KMP, no parts kit/complete 50BMG guns available. Semi side plate & trigger group are available.

The search continues

Posted: 8/3/2018 12:38:29 PM EDT

[#25]

There's a decent start on a parts set, over on 1919.com

https://1919a4.com/showthread.php?92671-Wts-m2hb-parts-lot-quot-quot-save-500

Posted: 8/3/2018 1:04:27 PM EDT

[#26]

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Quoted:Thanks for the lea
There's a decent start on a parts set, over on 1919.com

https://1919a4.com/showthread.php?92671-Wts-m2hb-parts-lot-quot-quot-save-500

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Thanks for the lead.
I saw that but it is not a complete kit but a decent price for what it is. I don't want to go on an Easter egg hunt for missing parts before I can build it.

Posted: 8/3/2018 1:12:52 PM EDT

[#27]

You may have to, frankly. Either that, or wait and see what hits the market one by one.

Posted: 8/3/2018 1:25:02 PM EDT

[#28]

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You may have to, frankly. Either that, or wait and see what hits the market one by one.

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That's a distinct possibility. I don't mind waiting for a good complete kit or a ready to go gun.

Posted: 8/3/2018 1:27:21 PM EDT

[#29]

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That's a distinct possibility. I don't mind waiting for a good complete kit or a ready to go gun.

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Fair enough. If I come across any other leads, I'll let you know!

Posted: 10/23/2018 10:00:55 AM EDT

[#30]

O P sent you a message!

Posted: 10/23/2018 8:27:07 PM EDT

[#31]

I had Ed at CWA build me an M2HB semiauto. Gun uses all new parts and a new stellite lined barrel. Shot it for the first time at the Big Sandy shoot this past weekend. Worked flawlessly with my reloads and is a beautifully finished gun.
I can highly recommend Ed Haywood http://centralwisconsinarmory.com/ if you want an M2.

Posted: 10/23/2018 9:49:14 PM EDT

[#32]

I always recommend Ed, saw his work years ago when he was just starting out. He's also a member on 1919a4 site, when he has the time to post.

Post a pic of your M2 when you get a chance.

Posted: 10/24/2018 12:51:33 AM EDT

[#33]

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I had Ed at CWA build me an M2HB semiauto. Gun uses all new parts and a new stellite lined barrel. Shot it for the first time at the Big Sandy shoot this past weekend. Worked flawlessly with my reloads and is a beautifully finished gun.
I can highly recommend Ed Haywood http://centralwisconsinarmory.com/ if you want an M2.

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How much?