The old school belt and harness thread got me thinking about a critical piece of gear that often gets overlooked. Let's talk packs, packing lists basics, and finally show off them bags.

Obviously as with everything else mission requirements drive the gear. Your packs and loadout requirements can vary greatly and should adjust to fit these differences. Short duration missions or training evolutions don't require a huge bag with 7 days of food.

Carrying loads no matter how far or short of a distance is an artform that takes the right pack, organization, and fitness. I've seen military members barely make it 100 yards from the airfield and seemingly out of shape people hump 10 plus miles like it was nothing.

The pack: suspension and fit are important aspects to consider. Organization is a personal preference. I prefer some organization without going overboard as I self organize with pouches and packing cubes as needed. On bigger packs I like a zipper that runs lengthwise as it is easier to find what items I'm looking for. Think mystery ranch trizip.

Loadout: Mission dictates the loadout. There is some constants. Put your rucksack on the ground and pack it horizontally. Be sure that the heaviest items are against the plastic frame of your rucksack for maximum support.

Now to get into some specifics of each category of packs.

Daypack: As the name implies this is for outings of a day or less. Could stretch to 2 or 3 days depending on packout requirements. Again your mission and reason dictate the packout. I like my daypack to have a large open main compartment and one smaller compartment for small quick access items. Reason being if I need to carry larger bulky items I can make it fit easier than with a small pack full of compartments. I prefer for all of my packs to have a waistbelt. Not totally necessary for this size pack but I would rather have it and not need it.

3 day pack: This is my medium size pack that is a do it all pack. I like a long zipper to make getting stuff out easier without having to pull everything out. Hydration sleeve for a bladder is important. I also like pockets or a spot for nalgene bottles on the outside of the pack. Suspension and fitment are important when getting into this size bag and bigger. As a shorter person I prefer shorter packs. They fit more like a normal pack would for a taller person. Straps, molle, or other attachment methods are handy for expanding loadout.

Well I'll jump in on this thread too...
In my limited experience with packs, I prefer a top-loading ruck in case of zipper or buckle failure. As I mentioned in the Belt Kit thread, my "daysack" is the buttpack on my webbing, which gives the ability to go 24-48 hours without needing a pack. I like short-back rucks like the old Alice rucks and some British packs to better integrate with the web gear, and external frame is a plus also.
Right now I'm working on adding Fastex buckles to the main straps on my Med. Alice pack, and will post up some pics whenever I get done.

I tend to prefer top loaded packs that have side or long axis access.  While I don't have a ton of packs like some here I have all the sizes for my purposes covered pretty well.  

For light hike or biking / quick trip I usually grab my Camelbak Mule.  It covers my water and the two smallish pockets let me carry a rain jacket or poncho, some snacks, bare bones first aid, and compass/GPS/camera etc.  I also have a TT lightfigher roll up dump pouch molle'd on the back to throw things in I collect while abroad.  This can also easily get thrown over other gear like my HPG kit bag or chest rig/PC as it has minimalist straps.

Next size up I have a older Camelbak Linchpin.  I'm not really a fan of most of their packs but I am in love the the MR harness/yoke system which it has.  The Linchpin is my smallish day pack.  This perfect for some rain gear, small med kit, additional layer, some food, water bladder, compass/GPS/camera, and some room to spare.  

Being that the MR harnesses are near perfection my next larger pack is a MR 3DAP.  I like the trizip a lot.  It is a tank.  It doesn't have a lot of internal compartmentalization but works for me.  I like with this pack that I have more flexibility to use a bladder or have water bottle pockets. I can pack everything from the day pack plus.  Adding 10-15 lbs over the Linchpin is still very comfortable. Also is very well placed cinch straps so strapping tent/tent poles or trekking poles is very easy.  I also have the MR stick it that can be added to the 3DAP quickly to expand capacity or use as a helmet carrier.

Next up is a MR SATL.  This is about 10 years old and recently came back from MR with new straps and an overhaul.  It is a little bit deeper from to back to front than I would like sometimes but distributes the weight very well.  Also like the 3DAP gives me more options on water.  It has a full length zipper to access the main compartment without opening the top which I like greatly.  Some people aren't, but I am a fan of the MR long vertical pockets on the front of the pack.  All my high use items go in these and the lid so it keeps me out of the main pack as much possible.  

For my largest pack I have a streamlined ILBE pack.  I cut off many of the extra straps that are on there and the weird pleather/hypalon like material on the sides.  To be honest I don't use this one often but although it is heavy for it's size, I have carried 70+ lbs in this fairly comfortably.  I know some of you Marines will laugh at the weight as I've read about some of the load outs you all carried in those packs.  

FYI both the 3DAP and SATL play nice over PC's with their bolster systems.  The 3DAP has the newer style and the SATL has the older tube style.  Although short of total boog I can't see me trying that for any distance.  The ILBE as most that have used them know, is doable over armor but is not ideal.

I know I'll get the comment about how heavy all my selections are and you would be right.  Over the years I have drastically scaled down the weight of my loads understanding the help that is on your back and knees.  However, I've cut weight in my packables as opposed to my packs.  UL cookware, lightweight layers, UL stove, lighter tent, inflatable sleep pad, etc have helped me carry a fraction of what I once did weight wise, but in doing that it has always made sense to me to not sacrifice the toughness of my packs. They still get abrasions and tears but dealing with good companies like MR means my favorite packs can be repaired like new instead of replaced.  I also never feel the need to baby my packs when on the trail.  

Interested in seeing what everyone else's thoughts are.

My preference is for panel loading packs.  I like being able to lay it down, open it up and have access to anything without digging from the top down.  Personally, I think it is easier to organize.  I understand the concern about zippers failing.  If you have a reputable manufacturer, then the likelihood is lessened.  Compression straps around the bag provide redundancy in that situation, but primarily help to reduce the stress on the zippers.

My packs of choice right now are an LBT 14L daypack, an LBX Titan 3 day pack, and an Eberlestock Jackhammer.

Packs like about anything else have undergone huge changes in the past few years.  We have basically sorted ourselves out into Assault, 3-day, and full sized packs.

Here's a lovely pic illustrating all three.



Back behind there to the left, an assault pack; moving to the far right, a 3-day pack, and finally in front, a full-sized ruck.

We were field-testing all three, and believe me, I was sucking it the hardest with that 130L monster!

Belt kits are a mixture of Jay Jay's, V/M, and Crossfire prototypes.  

As pertains to belt kit thread, this next pic illustrates how a 3-day pack integrates with a Brit-style belt kit.



Here you can see how a good belt kit creates a nice shelf for a ruck to sit on.  And on the other hand, a properly designed "short back" ruck that is designed to sit on it.

That's me boss, BTW,  29 yr Aussie SF vet.  Don't be a wanka!

These days, I prefer an external-framed ruck.  Not just cuz I work for a company that makes them, but also because I haven't found any other solution that works better with a fighting load.  You can run these lovely civvy rucks, with these huge padded waist belts, but it's extremely difficult to make them work with a military load out.  So I have returned to the tried and true, external frame, short back ruck.  Especially if you are running foot-mounted patrols with limited logistic support.  I just prefer a classic belt kit and a ruck that works with it.  What I would have loved back when I was humping LC-1 and ALICE.

Another important part of carrying heavy loads is the packout of your bag or ruck. Improperly packed bags can make your movement over distances rough. There is two common methods for packout. I  won't say one way is better than the other as I know some people prefer method A while others prefer method B.

Method A puts your heaviest items at the bottom of your pack. I never really liked this method as it ended up dragging the pack down putting more weight on the shoulders. Here is examples of method A.





Method B puts your heaviest items closest to your back and about shoulder blade high. To me this balanced the load better and didn't put the weight on the shoulders. Here is an example of method B.

I don't have much experience with external frame military ruck sacks but I've done a lot of multi day hiking.

My current hiking bag is a Granite gear blaze AC 60 - it's a 60 liter top-loader with a top cover that doubles as a fanny pack and gear organizer. It's comfortable enough up to around 45 pounds (my usual hiking setup is more like 25-30), easily handles multi-day trips even when I'm carrying some of my girl's gear on top of my own. The pack weighs in under 3.5lb's - that's 2lbs less then my significantly smaller Mystery Ranch 3-day pack.

The most important thing to know is that ounces make pounds, and pounds create pain. If you don't need it - leave it at home!!! This starts with the pack itself. Lots of organization and access zippers can be nice to quickly access different gear items, but properly packing your kit can mitigate some of that need.

Your sleep system, sleep layers and most of your snivel gear can go loosely in one large dry bag/stuff sack at the bottom. You won't need this stuff until your in camp with your shelter deployed. When you break camp leave out any layers you will forsee needing while you're on the move that day, like mid layers, puffy jacket, etc.

If you're carrying bulk ammo or other dense, heavy equipment, on top of the sleep system but directly against the pack's frame is where that stuff belongs. If you need to dump some items at a rally point you won't have to totally repack everything.

Your food and hygeine kit is probably pretty dense, pack this in the middle as well, you should be able to break this down all into one or two stuff sacks, and use them to fill in the dead space.

Wet weather gear, IFAK, any food you're going to eat while on the move, and some water should get packed externally. If you're going to do cooking before you get to camp it might be appropriate to have your mess kit packed externally as well.

I like to have my shelter or at least my rain fly the outer-most externally accessible while my pack cover is on so I can get a tarp up before having to dig into the pack itself, and when breaking camp have everything packed and buttoned up before pulling the tarp down, this will help a lot in keeping your sleep and snivel gear dry plus wet gear weighs a lot more.

I keep most of my small/quick access gear organized in the top lid/fanny pack - that includes water purification, head lamp, compass, map, pack saw, booboo/blister kit, hat, bug repellant, batteries.

Ideally I would never have to open/ unpack the main pack bag until I get to my next camp site or rally point.

wow who in the infantry packs a bible in their ruck.. better not catch any of my joes doing that. If you talked to god he'd probably tell you "bring more ammo”

Saw that too, batteries and ammo in the bottom is also a bold move cotton.  I always try to get heavier shit up high near my shoulders, plus it sucks digging out 5590's from the bottom of a dark tube full of shit.  

MRE's and clothing go straight to the bottom, mission essential stuff goes on top of everything, the most important items being the ones nearest the lid.  Luckily, the more important items tend to be the heaviest anyway... so winning, I guess.

Leave shave kit and wet weather gear behind too.  Shaving in the field is a truly stupid idea and you're getting soaked no matter what you do  

Yeah, I generally dont leave anything that can catch on fire if exposed to water at the bottom of any bag.  Just a personal quirk.  Bulk ammo has a way of trying to make its own path to the bottom of any bag.  If you arent actually carrying a 117 the internal 117 pocket on MR and Eberlestocks is pretty good to strap down a couple SAW or MK48 drums, or for a couple 25lb plates if you are just training.

I've messed around with a bunch of packs and used a few pretty extensively.  If I'm carrying less than 25 lbs it can go in whatever, be it the issued assault pack or a jansport.  More than 25 lbs and I want a decent frame and hip belt.  I also find myself using packs with load lifters and chest straps, these are nearly mandatory for wearing a pack with armor.  Compression straps to tighten the pack up on a smaller load is nice too, though I try to use a pack just big enough for what I'm carrying.

Most military external frames work well with armor, some internal frames do as well.  The key is having enough curve that the frame wraps around the armor and allows the hip belt to press against your spine.  ALICE, MOLLE, and DEI1606 frames all do this well.  I have a kelty RTO pack that has internal frame stays that I aggressively re-shaped to fit around my IOTV.  If the hip belt can't lay around your waist it can't effectively put the weight on your hips and its useless.

The keys to ruck comfort are getting the weight on your hips and minimizing wobble.  First is frame height, the belt needs to be high enough to sit on your hips but not so high it just compresses your abdomen.  Next is a hip belt that is short enough to effectively tighten around your waist and padded enough to carry the load comfortably.  I find the MOLLE hip belt a little too wide top to bottom to be comfortable (I'm a small person).  The Tactical Tailor ergo super belt is fucking awesome.  Third is shoulder straps, they should be wide enough and padded enough to be comfortable without being too thick and obtrusive.  They should be fitted to keep the pack up against your back without being tight or putting too much of the weight on your shoulders.  The load lifter straps help immensely with this, they pull the tops of the shoulder straps up and shift weight from the shoulder straps to your hips.  Fucking magical.  A chest strap is  mandatory for me if I'm wearing armor as it keeps the shoulder straps from sliding outward and putting stress on your shoulders and upper arms.  I believe mystery ranch makes a device that does a similar function but is attached to the front of your armor instead.  I haven't tried one but I've heard good things.  Compression straps on the ruck help pull the bag tight against its load.  If you're carrying big stuff like sleeping bags and cold weather gear they can inflate to the size of the pack, but if you're going light you don't want the dense things to bounce around in a big bag.

A packing list is dictated by your mission; duration, weather, and mission essential gear.  Hot weather means you can skip wet weather gear and most of your sleeping gear, but you'll carry a lot more water.  Cold weather means a bigger sleeping bag and more cold weather clothing.  Food is based on how long you'll go before a resupply, MREs are heavy but freeze-dried food requires water and a stove.  Mission essential gear includes your personal responsibilities like a radios, batteries, or targeting equipment as well as sharing-the-load stuff like mortar rounds or belt-fed ammo.  Everyone gets to play when its time to carry mortar rounds and belted ammo.  If your pack looks light you might get something special like a spare AT4 or gustav rounds too.

Load plans are also mission dictated though you can mostly make it work.  Generally you want the center of gravity of the ruck to be as close as possible to the frame, up high, and centered between the shoulders.  This looks like putting heavy stuff up against the frame and higher in the pack when possible.  If the center of gravity is low or away from your back it creates a moment that pulls the pack down and away from you and it'll feel heavier.  The obvious symptom of this is seeing someone leaning way forward while carrying their pack.  Mission essential stuff probably needs to be packed where it is easily accessible.  That means up top near the ruck opening.  The good news is mission essential stuff like batteries and ammo are heavy so this meshes well with the general load planning.

My radio is always up against the frame and near the top of the pack.  At 12 lbs its a heavy bitch, but this also allows me to access the faceplate and puts the antenna base in a favorable spot.  I always look for a pack with a radio pouch; ALICE packs come with them and MOLLE rucks have a removable pouch that is easily found on ebay.

Other stuff I like to have easily accessible:
food- most of an MRE can be eaten without a spoon and makes great on the go food.  A couple hundred calories crushed during a halt is a great thing.

Water- not only is it heavy (8 lbs per gallon) but quick access for topping off is nice too.  I carried 6L.  3L in a camelbak that was only for drinking on the move.  2L in a 2qt canteen that I drank from during short halts or in a patrol base.  Finally a 1L nalgene that I kept as a reserve of water or put in my chest rig when I was away from my ruck.

shelter/weather stuff- In the summer I keep a poncho in a side pocket.  I pull it over my ruck to keep it dry, burrito myself in it to sleep, or can use it in conjunction with natural camouflage to make overhead cover in an OP.  In the winter I keep a pair of gloves/mittens and a wamer jacket layer in a side pocket or up top.  Dress down during movement to prevent sweating but on a halt its baller to throw on a warm pair of gloves and/or a warm jacket.

socks- I can go a couple weeks with two or three pairs of socks total.  Some good wool socks with enough stretch can be re-worn multiple times.  I try to change my socks every 8-12 hours or as needed.  The used socks can be dried in the pocket of an outer layer jacket in the winter or in the sunlight in the summer.  The third pair can be rotated in to allow more time for socks to dry out.

Everything else is a luxury.  In the summer I can ruck flop and sleep in the dirt if it comes to that.  Hygiene happens when there is time.  I'll eat the MRE main meals when I have a couple minutes and can break out a spoon.  Sleep systems, hygiene kits, and extra clothes can all be packed low or wherever because I don't need quick access to them.  Honestly spare clothes other than socks are unnecessary most of the time.

Good stuff.

The #1 thing I have found for rucking with armor is a mystery ranch cinch strap.  I dont even think they sell them anymore, and when they did they were super wide, meant for IOTVs and the Marine general issue armor.  I cut one down and resewed it at MTRC for a plate carrier.  It holds the straps off your brachials and keeps the pack locked in tight against your back plate.  The little cinch straps on most packs are meant for use without armor and will literally run under your neck while wearing kit, plus they are extremely narrow and flimsy.   I typically judge rucks by the ability to wear over armor first then factor in everything else, and honestly ive been able to accomplish most of what I needed to do comfortably between my Eberlestock Terminator and Mystery Ranch SATL.  I have maybe a half dozen other rucks, but I typically only use these.

I also made my own compression straps for internal bundling, and between that and wet weather bags im usually able to keep things pretty stable.  I typically use a mix of OR waterproof bags with a one way purge valve, or snugpack.  I almost always keep a small dry sack with a snugpack bivy and jungle blanket, and a thermal liner.  Ive been burned too many times going somewhere thinking ill be there 6 hours and it turns into 6 weeks, or the weather changes literally overnight.

Speaking of emergency comfort items, I keep a could small kifaru pullouts that I can quickyl transfer from bag to bag with some emergency or necessary type stuff.  Not all of them have to go all the time, but I have one with  a sawyer filter, boresnake, gun lube, chapstick, suntan lotion, etc. I keep another one with solar stuff, like a nomad solar panel, battery bank, 5590 adapters, etc.  Another one has bundles of small batteries, AA, AAA, 3V, etc.  I keep another one with a tiny stove and fuel canister inside a metal nalgene cup with some instant coffee packs, which work great if you end up staying somewhere longer than you wanted to and have to pull guard.

For water I keep a 3L bladder in the ruck, but the source bladders have a plug in hose adapter to refill off a normal water bottle so I dont have to either pull the whole bladder to refill or get everything wet filling it inside the pack.  I normally keep that and a 16oz nalgene on my kit.  The nalgene I typically fill with amino acids and hydration powder, and use it to get a second wind once we reach our first ORP or strong point.  It has worked great for that, or even on long ruck marches ill slam it at the turnaround point.

Mystery Ranch cinch strap (modified for PC)



Snugpak dry sacks



Kifaru pullouts



Eberlestock Terminator and MR SATL

Alright, here’s my Fastex buckle upgrade for the Med. Alice ruck. Overlook the sloppy hand stitching please " />

IMHO the single best upgrade for convenience you can do to Alice packs. Next is some Velcro to keep the extra strap rolled up and then I’ll do the Large.