As promised some pics of my MIl-Tec Lightweight Smock, which is the cheapest version available of the KSK style Smock.

From the front layout you can see the zipper/button flap, cordura reinforcement on shoulders (lined with a silky material), hood with wire rim (removed the wire on my old army smock as it is bulky), waist and bottom strings, foliage loops.

Chest area, showing lanyard rings on every pouch and how the pocket flap is attached to the main body of the pocket as to stay somehow more closed. Also, two document pockets and a Napoleon zip protected by the flap that lets you reach inside (a smock was originally meant to be worn over the uniform)


Shoulder pockets, including cordura elbow/forearm protection with the pad it came with. I removed that cordura in my army one, i didn't on this as sometimes i take a prone hunting shot and the pads are nice. Pockets aren't that good, one is a large affair that could hold three packs of cigarettes with a low cut and just a button closure (could benefit from an elastic strip to hold content tight), the other is a thin card sized pocket with a pen sleeve.


Back layout has foliage loops, a large 3 button poacher pocket good for extra clothing (Sod smock has also side zipper access) and two pockets. Those two pockets have flaps unattached to the pocket's body to carry bigger items (we had a much hated platoon SOP of a canteen in the right pouch which was always rigger reinforced). Also nice long double sided underarm ventilation zippers.

Back inside has two large open top pouches , we had a SOP for a signal panel and some E&E items, some suggest to put pieces of mat inside to act as a sitting pad. Today i never use those. Also two map pouches and you can see the thinness of the material and how no unnecessary material has been used (pretty sure is to save on material, but it does good)
Review is over, now for some levity
Those last "pockets" are present on the British Paratrooper Smock too

Which is less practical but way cool and they still issue in MTP Too (note wool cuffs)....

The Grandaddy of the Modern Smock is the french airborne one, this is a copy of the 1947/1951 patter in a cheap bad camouflage,still nice to wear, both Eotac and Woolrich have jackets inspired by this

Also note British issued a "field jacket" that's basically a lighter hoodless smock, very solid for not-so-cold weather, strong ripstop windproof material

Open air markets in my area now have many vendors with piles of 1€ to 5€ used clothing from rag mills, i pulled off this Italian Army jacket which i late discovered to be a 1951 pattern paratrooper Smock which comes with a nice feature, inside suspenders which i think may help with weight from stuffed pockets.


Also another smock i picked up in some civilian hunting camo and a Dutch Jungle camouflage field jacket which is nice as the brit one. Those field jackets are also available in 3 color desert, but check for Dutch paratrooper smocks in that camouflage as they are cut like British Arktis ones and are very good.

Now I'm kicking myself for dumping my pile of clothes.... still at my dad's house 20 years after I moved out,  and I junked it last year

I have a jacket/Parks fetish, so this thread is not helping....

You'll cut such a dashing figure.  Might make the cover of GQ or Army Times.  

Wow! That’s a really great collection and run-down! Thanks for adding a ton to this thread! :D

Watching this thread for learning purposes.

I ordered from sportsmans warehouse without continuing to read the thread. Their sizes are small medium and large. Am I about to get a knockoff special?

No idea. Im intrigued though.

How’s their return policy?

Hopefully I dont have to find out.

You are not alone

me too for your sake!

So this is what I recieved.

Anyone have a link to the real deal? I have a training event that kicks off Thursday.

Double tapped that.

I don't think that's a parka, the NSN comes back to the "Shirt, Combat, Warm Weather (Tropical) MTP".  It looks to me to be the Brit equivalent to our ACU top, just a uniform shirt for warm weather, not a coat or outer layer.

It was definitely not the parka, but it turns out I had one from working with the British awhile ago. It worked out.

@demoMouse

You said you remove the wire from the hood? Does it make it more “floppy” or does it still hold its shape fairly well?

On that note, has anyone tried to put in silicone tubing similar to what SORD offers into their hood? I was looking at 3MM OD tubing in passing but there’s not much info out there.


For future reference: I actually bought two parkas, one 96 and one 104 for chest sizing, both work well, but I’d definitely wear the 104 with a chest rig or armor underneath. The 96 is nice for hiking around the house with one or two light layers keeping in mind I’m in TX.

Makes it much floppier. It still works keeping the rain off your face, but it sags. More like an oversized sweatshirt hood.

I haven’t seen the M-65 mentioned in this thread. I guess it isn’t technically a parka. It does seem to share some characteristics and materials with a few of the parkas referenced in here though. I know many are not a fan of the M-65. I’ve got one that has served me well in a variety of cold temps ( with layers)

I got a Czech M97 Parka with Liner for around $35 from Midwayusa a couple years ago. Damn thing is like new. They are out of stock now.

USGI M-65 "Field Jacket" can be used with the USGI Hood with fur ruff intended for the USGI Fishtail Parka.  Buttons/snaps right in, and explains all the mysterious buttons/snaps on the "Field Jacket".  Lots better than the "in-collar' hood intended to be worn under the helmet.  Hard to get good hoods with decent real fur remaining, and the newer ones with synthetic fur are not as desirable as the old ones, IMHO.  The plain OD cotton hood, intended for earlier versions of the 'Field Jacket" can be added to the M-65 for increased water-resistance.  With all these add-on GI hoods, the user must take care to install a hood that fits the coat/jacket, and some sizes of the hoods are now uncommon.

Strongly suggest replacing the cotton waist cord with 1/8" dia marine-grade shock cord and a couple of barrel locks.  Add small barrel locks to the Hood(s).

In any event, a good laundering and a treatment with suitable wash-in water-repellent yields a decent product.  It is not as exotic nor as advanced as some other items, but it will serve, and has the advantage of being reasonably priced, and many sizes are still available.  In lieu of button-in GI liner (again, sized to the user's coat), a fleece vest or fleece jacket can easily serve.

Beware of inferior fake "Field Jackets"

Sorry, but I was issued two Field Jackets in Basic. One OD, the other Woodland camo.(They were burning up the OD stocks)

And they were a horrid jacket. When we got issued the first Goretex parka's, those Field jackets went in the basement and have not seen the light of day.

They were heavy, not warm and not waterproof or wind proof. Logged many a kilometer sitting in the TC's hatch of a M60 and a M-1 Abrams, in the wind, cold, rain and snow.

Can you add waterproofing.. Sure, but why?
So many better options now.
Lite weight fabrics that breath, are water and wind proof. And Layering is the way to go.

Just my .02 as a M65 end user.

I respect your comments.  I don't think my comments about the M-65 Field jackets claim it's "best" alternative.  Just suggesting the M-65 as an affordable and available item, particularly as regards to user's physique/sizing.

Multiple sizes (with USGI garments and both girth and torso) are generally available with USGI Field Jackets.  Not so common with foreign items.  I wouldn't wear a "great" item of clothing if it didn't fit me.

I expect that all surplus M-65 coats have had their 'waterproofing" worn down to zero.  Hence my comments about adding some decent, modern water-resistant chems.  Likely most GIs had a worn-out field jacket, at least or worn-out for "water-resistance". Suggest not blaming  the garment on  how it failed due to not being treated with water-proofing chems.  That stuff wears out, or is laundered-out.

I think my comments posted above in conjunction with adding older, detachable GI hoods to the M-65, and other comments about adding waterproofing chems to make the garment water-resistant are reasonable comments, given the age and condition of these things.

No USGI Field Jacket is stated as being "Water-Proof". All of them were stated as being "Water-Resistant"- and at that, being "brand-new".  Many of the "parkas" listed above aren't any more water-resistant" then the M-65

I don't suggest the M-65 jacket as the "Ultimate" garment, but all things considered, it can be a "decent", affordable alternative.  Properly laundered, and with suitable waterproofing chems applied, makes for a '"reasonable" alternative, IMHO.

I don't think we disagree, but we are approaching things from different points of view.

Submitted with all respect. Also submitted with some personal experience with such garments, and with making them "water-resistant".

@Harv24

I have a British windproof smock in DPM desert that I got 5-10 years ago. It looks pretty similar to that, with some minor differences. Are the front pockets Velcro? I would assume if they are the same garment, some minor charges ahve been made over the years?

If it is an issued Desert Dpm jacket and not an aftermarket item it should be in the CS95 cut (the 1995 Combat soldier uniform ensemble), with the 4 front pockets with a large button, the 2 zippered ones and the small ones on sleeves.
https://www.varusteleka.com/en/product/british-cs95-windproof-smock-desert-dpm-surplus/20004
When multicam-like MTP camouflage came out some of the old contracts were completed with the new fabric, so at first there were uniforms (including smocks) in the same CS95 cut (i think there are no sleeves pockets but there are velctro strips on sleeves).
https://www.varusteleka.com/en/product/british-cs95-windproof-smock-mtp-surplus/26657
They were quickly replaced by the then new PCS (Personal clothing system) that had new cut of uniform including the new smock which has  quite a lot more features, sadly MOD started to buy and issue china made garments (that are obviously made to spec). Now there is also a revised one that is the PCS/CU one which can easily be rocgnized by having shoulder velcro shaped just as a square outline, not a full veclro square.
https://www.varusteleka.com/en/product/british-pcs-windproof-smock-mtp-surplus/25779

Not a Parka/Smock guy, but am a UF Pro guy - they just came out with their M2 Parka. Armin (in the vid) is their lead designer - dude knows his textiles/clothing, their 'Product Spotlights' drop a lot of knowledge materials, and construction.

Wow, thanks for the info and links. I have the CS95 version I got from Sportsmans Guide(?) a few years ago for like $30. It works great as a range jacket, with a fleece underneath it handles the coldest weather i see. What's the best stuff to redo the waterproofing?

Saw this at your link, I am tempted:

I have both a 95 pattern woodland DPM smock and a PCS MTP smock. I my opinion the PCS version sucks and is mostly a step backwards save a few features.

I hate the mesh lining and the fleece hand warmer pockets on the PCS version. I found that everything that I tried to put in the chest slash pockets got snagged on the mesh lining. The fleece lining on the hand warmer pockets turn into sponges if they get wet. I have since cut out the mesh lining and cut out the fleece pocket lining and sewed the hand warmer pockets shut. At some point I will sew in a cloth lining to replace the mesh so I have use of the chest slash pockets again without all the damn snagging.

I really like the armpit vents, shoulder pockets and covered buttons that were added to the PCS version.

If I had to do it again I would have preferred the 95 pattern smock in MTP.

YMMV

Those were among the known issues of the original PCS smock that have been addressed. As of now the new "MK2" PCS-CU smocks have Fabric lining and zippers on the handwarmers pockets.

https://www.varusteleka.com/en/product/sarma-windproof-smock/34637

Just bought this smock bc of this thread and it just arrived today all the way from Finland!


Solidi construction.  I can try and get some pics loaded later.

Really like this UF pro jacket

I got issued both the DCU and Temperate M65’s as a wee Privit, and 100% concur with every word in this statement. Even with the smoking jacket it was a terrible field jacket on just about every level.

Love me some Arktis smocks!

Comb Arid
Desert DPM
MTP (Multi-Terrain Pattern)

Attached File

Understood.  GI M-65 "Field Jackets" were issued as Spring/Fall rain-resistant garments.  Nothing was perfect back then nor is it now.

Submit that few, if any garments suggested above have any significant rain resistance.

Is the M-65 Field jacket perfect?  Of course not.  

It is at least affordable and available in many torso and chest sizes?  Generally YES.

I've properly laundered many items of GI clothing, and used modern chems to make then "water-resistant".

Doing so has "restored" original "water-resistance" to Field jackets. Not long-tern  "water-proof" .  US Mil had  issued plastic rain gear for long-term rain exposure.

Go try out your chosen Item, and then get back about its' ability to shed water.

But why, when there are an equal number of modern, lightweight and better waterproofed options. Hell, even by your statements there are other options besides and M65.

I was issued an m65 in basic and wore it ONE time in the field. There are better things than it.

Because users have different needs, so garments need to be varied to meet user demands.

Owners of M-65 often complain about lack of water resistance. I suspect their jackets usually laundered and water-resistant chems were seldom added.  Call it "cost-cutting" at expense of the troops.

M-65 field jacket was intended to be "water-resistant". Dedicated rain garments also supplied by US Mil.

Most of the "parkas" listed above (excepting a few) have same degree of water-resistance-- or lack of it-- as does the M-65 field jacket.

To sum up: I'd rather have a properly-fitting M-65 Field Jacket, suitably laundered, and treated with modern water-resistant chems than most of the items suggested above if the above items did not fit me properly.

If I could have have my choice of all the items suggested above, all of which properly fit me  (XL/TALL), I would probably choose something other then the M-65.  

Again, the M-65 is a niche garment and won't suit everyone's needs.

Nice to have choices, though.

YMMV.

Your funeral in the freezing rain

I really like my Artist combat smock. It's got just a touch of water resistance so it'll bead off mist or light rain and is loose enough to easily add layers underneath for warmth.  It plus a waffle top underneath gets me by in those conditions just fine. It wouldn't be great in a downpour but as a sort for transitional garment it's great and still light. And all the big pockets are handy as well.  That's what a good "smock" is for me. For worse weather there are better options for sure but usually heavier and less breathable.  I usually keep a poncho handy just in case the wetness gets severe.

LOL!  I would not choose to wear it in any kind of prolonged rain; not what it was designed to do.

Those of you who have not dismissed the M-65 type jacket might be interested in this Austrian Gore-Tex variant:Austrian M-65 Clone

Mine arrived in brand-new condition for about $20 less than from Mcguire, although it shipped from Mcguire.  https://www.mcguirearmynavy.com/products/austrian-m-65-parka

In-collar hood far better than USGI equivalent.  No internal buttons for liner. Gore-Tex membrane listed on tag inside the jacket.  Snap closures for cuffs.

ETA:  Very nice coat for everyday, cooleer-weather usage.  On a par with M-65 for "Tactical" usage.  Being all nylon, and having a Gore-Tex membrane, far more suitable to cooler temps than warmer ones.  Enough room inside for a fairly slim fleece vest, and perhaps a slim fleece jacket.  In-collar hood is vastly better than the stupid hood in the M-65.  To be failr the hood in the M-65 was intended to be worn underneath the helmet, and when so done is merely OK.

All-in-all the Austrian M-65 near-clone is a good coat for cooler temps, depending on what you want.

When I was a teen,  I used one of the old German army parkas with the liner, it was a warm jacket and kept me warm whilst bicycling to school and work daily. Even down to over -30C temps.

The parka I put up is my fall/winter/spring field jacket in the Pacific Northwest and has been for some time now. From October through the beginning of May it’s either cold and rainy, cold and damp, or cold and snowy. Windy too. A significant portion of my job is standing/sitting around out in the cold telling airplanes to drop stuff out of the sky. Typically I’m getting rained on for hours on end. It works exceptionally well hence my “I expected to camp dry it” statement. The m65? Yah nah mate. That shit didn’t even work in Georgia in November.

French quasi-parkas that could be get here in europe cheap. I say semi-parka because they have proper smocks, they call it the "guerilla jacket".
However, when the french as many others developed their "future soldier concept" in the early 00's they came up with a new set of clothing in late 00's, the FELIN.

These are two of their jackets, the temperate weather S1 and the hot weather S2 (they both come in both woodland and desert camouflage, those are examples).
I think these have a comfortable cut, even if they nare incredibly french in some details.

The temperate S1 jacket is the one with more features. It has a removable, rollable hood, helmet sized with metal wire stiffener.

First of all, the french got rid of the cargo chest pockets to wear it with the today always present armor, in exchange for a couple of zippered pockets accessible from outside. the lower cargo pockets are usable
https://images2.imgbox.com/47/68/jFfAOeSy_o.jpg
inside the lower pockets there are i'd say pistol magazine sized inserts with elastic retention. i think the button is a spare repair one.

Shoulder pockets (velcro and button closure) have both this elastic that looks like it's meant to hold two items, maybe field dressings even if it looks small

there are pit zips

elbow pads inserts (i don't know what they hold, maybe a smaller version of the pictured knee pads that go in the s1 pants), plus i'd say useless elastic for cinching the forearm.

There is a large poachers pocket in the back with side access. the french have decided to put a velcro divider like in the m249 ammo pouches, so you can have one large or two smaller pockets


the hot weather s2 is made of a lighter material and it's devoid of many features, no pit zips, no hood, no extra cinching material.


A mention to the pants, in this case the desert ones are S1, the woodland CCE are S2
S1 have kneepads inserts for skateboarding type kneepads

Both are high waisted like european pants, both have nice thick webbing belt loops, the S1 ones have suspenders plastic atachment too.

a cool detail, left pocket have a replacement button for the waist closure, right one for the pocket closure (well, they could have just med both the same)


I would say the boonie is even more complicated, with iff squares, button up sides, removable neck protector and velcro closed ventilation slots.

Having re-read this thread, I'm considering buying an M-1943 replica US Field Jacket (all cotton) and sized to allow for inevitable shrinkage.  All-cotton being a little better in late Summer/late Spring.  A more "forgiving" fabric, in some respects than nylon/goretex.

I'll buy the appropriate add-on hood for it.

I might also buy a replica British leather "Jerkin" for an overgarment, but I'll need a leather belt to match all the belt buckles I haven't found yet.

I may not be as "Tactical" as some, but maybe not too far behind.

I'll also be "stylin" with a practical garment in my correct size, that I can wear anywhere and not attract undue attention.

YMMV, but I decline to wear camo in public.  OD or other mono-colors are fine; Camo attracts attention.  YMMV.

FWIW, I have plenty of USGI camo outerwear items.