Why isn’t this firearm discussed more?

I’ve shot one, it was decent.  Was expensive at the time.  

Seems like just about everything else has increased in price but the Kriss has remained expensive but about the same price it always was at.

Mostly curious.

It’s rather an odd duck. Probably more practical in a full auto

I like mine...





KRISS doesn't really market it much and the real benefits of it are in full auto.  I bought mine because I think it's a cool and unique gun.  Is it practical?  Not really any more practical than most other PCC's.  In 9mm PCC's, I've also got an MP5, and MP5K, a couple CMMG Banshee's...  the KRISS is probably the least-practical of the lot, while the Banshee is far and away the most practical, IMO.

That said, I wish the KRISS were more popular and had a stronger following.

As already said, it is an expensive gun. It is also very front heavy. I own a semi one and have also shot full auto ones. I bought it because it was different / quirky and I needed something other than a dozen different AR's. I don't regret buying it, but I don't shoot it much and it would definitely not be my go-to weapon if I needed a gun.

+1 to this, I have about the exact same to say about the KRISS.  I really like mine, Although now I wished I had chosen black over FDE.

Mine is in 9mm, very reliable, fun gun with an unusual design.

@jtb33

What do you mean when you say practical?

I lump all blowback 9mm guns into the same category.  What differentiates them is bounce, accuracy, magazines and reliability, use of a suppressor, and etc.  All those are relative to the other guns in the category.

PCC's are really meant to be FA.  That's their niche.  Unfortunately, without great expense, we civilians can't have that.

If I need a PCC-sized weapon, it'll be an 8.5" 300 BLK.

My 9mm PCC's are just range toys.  There's no reason I can think of that I'd grab any of my 9mm PCC's over a choice between a good 9mm handgun or an 8.5" barreled 300 BLK SBR/Pistol.  That's what I mean by them not really being 'practical'.

Pro

It's a sweet design.

Con.

It's really inefficient length wise.

I almost bought one, and probably should have - was bidding on another gun on GB, and the same seller had a nice braced pistol version (with a folding brace) for about a grand, and that's what it sold for.

Now am I right in saying that you can swap out the caliber without needing a serial numbered part?  If so, that would be a nice feature, where you could get a 9mm version for blasting, and a 10mm for bigger blasting.

The lower is considered the receiver and contains the bolt assembly, the barrel and serial number.  Different lowers have different serial numbers.  The lower is registered if you want to SBR it.  For an SBR, you have to register each lower as you can't readily adjust the lower for a different caliber.

What's wrong with it?

It's really awkwardly front heavy.

Expensive relative to other guns that do the same job better.

Goofy ergonomics and control placement.

Requires more thought than should be necessary accessorizing.

The overall design of the gun is just weird considering it's weight and relatively short barrel, especially compared to competitors.



What's good about it?

Well, it suppresses pretty well IMO.

Pleasant recoil impulse for a blowback gun.

Comes in a bunch of different calibers and colors

Supposedly kickass in F/A

Looks cool (I guess).



That's about it for me.

The biggest issues with the gun I personally found were just the god awful ergos and the heavy weight/awkward balance. The gun also pales in comparison to other competitors in it's price range (MP5 clones, B&T GHM, etc) and I feel is a lesser gun than even the Scorpion EVOs and Stribogs.

I bought one years ago when they first came out. It was heavy but it ate everything I put in it. Accuracy was amazing for the pistol version and at the time, .45 acp was not expensive, as I didn't reload. The only thing I hated was the problem with charging the gun if the hammer was not cocked, which was a big issue with the first round guns. Also,  accessories were not easy to come by and you could not get any aftermarket support as everything is proprietary.

I shot one in semi.

Not a fan of the controls and ergonomics.

The recoil impulse is weird. Recoil isnt terrible but i wouldn't call it soft. It oscillates up and down. Up initially, and then down when the carrier reaches the end of its travel downward.

In full auto you can really see it jump up and down in slowmo.

But that cyclic rate.

Probably one of the last options I'd pick for a semi pcc for practical usage. But I can understand wanting to own it for the unique design.

It's a fun and fantastic gun that doesn't have great ergonomics.  It's the first PCC I bought, amidst many more that I've bought since then.  Aside from some minor hiccups during the break-in, it shoots well.  The impulse is fast and the sights are back on target right away.  It's similar to my APC9s.  

Drawbacks are
-a really short barrel due to the recoil system.
-Overall length is long when you start adding things onto it, like suppressors.  At this point it approaches 300BLK SBR territory.
-minimum Glock mag size is 17 (full size).  Other Glock compatible PCCS can take shorter mags.
-placement of the mag release - it's right behind or under your support hand and get accidentally bumped.
-really tall height/bore that can hit the limits of your optic adjustment.
-front heavy due to all of the weight of the gun being mostly in front of your firing hand.
-side drawback: most of the internet guys showing off their Vector seem to be airsoft, COD players whose only interesting gun is a Kriss Vector.  Don't let that be a deterrent.  Glad they got one, but man the owner profile of certain guns is interesting.

Ergonomics leave a lot to be desired, but I am not in the "best designed one gun to rule them all" conversation.  I love interesting and innovative guns.  If it speaks to you and you want one, prices seem to be pretty decent at around $1200 or so.  I thoroughly enjoy showing people the gun, how it works, how it breaks down, etc.  I enjoy shooting it, despite the ergos.  It is not high on the home defense list, but it can certainly do the job if necessary.

The Firearm Blog

Hi fam, a couple of weeks ago I ran through a couple of magazines with one at a local machine gun shoot.

My first impressions are:

I shot a tan 9mm version with an Eotech, front grip and a flashlight. It's compact, sturdily built and folds up nicely.  I'm impressed at the quality of the construction.  

I like the use of Glock magazines.  

It appears to be easy to take down and clean.  Apparently in order to stay properly lubricated it needs grease on some parts, and oil on others.. not a huge deal.

It's tolerable on the ears with a suppressor, it's noisy otherwise (not necessarily a bad thing).  

I like how well it settled down between shots and it stayed on target during a mag dump. It is semi-auto, so I can't speak to three round bursts or automatic fire.

I think it makes for a great home defense and trunk gun.

My only gripe is that it's easy to drop a mag if you put your fingers in the wrong place during firing.  That's a design oversight and needs to be addresed.

Just my 2 cents.

I have one. I bought it years back; I'd done a ton of overtime at work and wanted to treat myself. The purchase may or may not have been inspired by COD MW2.

Its big, mean, and heavy. It needs some form of form of forward grip otherwise there's a big risk of unintentionally dropping the mag; just a hazard of the design. A friend loaned me a blowback 9mm AR to compare it with and the Vector recoils alot less than a blowback ar pistol.

But so does a braced Glock. I don't remember the make but I put a blade on a Glock 17 and it had the same felt recoil as the Vector. The Vector has much more room for an optic and a light, but I'm not sure its worth the weight. I'm going to be investigating a couple chassis for my spare 17.3.

Since it hasn't been posted here, I'll say it:  The Vector "extended" mag kits are horrible.  You can see one pictured in my Vector SBR above.  They look cool and are a great idea, but if you drop one or bump one, the bottom extended portion disconnects from the mag and the spring throws 40 rounds of 9mm all over.  

I mostly use Glock 33rd mags and ETS 40rd mags in mine.  I've thought about using some Gorilla Glue on the Kriss Vector extended round mag tabs to permanently attach them, but then the mag could never be disassembled.

Thanks for the heads up on the extended mag kit, I was considering picking some up but I won't now.

For what it’s worth, I believe it’s technically delayed blowback, though there doesn’t seem to be much delay effect.

After watching the below video, I took mine out to shoot for the first time since getting the Kriss mag extensions and SBR approval.  I like it much more & found the recoil minimal.  I also like it better with the VFG.  It fits nicely in a small back pack, and would make a great travel PDW.  Mine's in .45, which I picked-up to replace an LWRCi SMG for 1/3 the price (and it's much more accurate).  I'll probably pick-up the other style stock.

Watch this, all you'll probably want one.

That is a very compelling video, and I really like their channel.

It looks giant in pictures by itself, but when it's put next to something like an MP5, it apparently is not as big as it seems.

Here's my Vector SBR along with a few other SBR's for size comparison.

Weight comparison is another story, but depends on the items attached.  Mine has quite a bit on it and is fairly heavy, though it still doesn't weigh more than the naked UZI next to it.

What is the magazine capacity when it is flush?

GLOCK 17 mag for 9mm...  so 17rds.  In .45, it's a GLOCK 21 mag.

I had one in 45 acp, sold it a few years ago along with all my other 45's.

Recoil impulse was weird, and it kicked like a 10.5" AR. Muzzle rise was non existent though, it actually dropped a bit if anything. It is an easy gun to shoot fast accurately. Full auto is where the design would really shine.

Ergonomics were not the best. There isn't much room for your support hand, and you have to watch out for the bolt release. I recommend an extended handguard if you're running a suppressor, or a VG if you SBR it.

It was heavy. My 45 with the extended hanguard and a suppressor was over 8lbs.

More capacity
More stable shooting platform for faster follow up shots and more accuracy at longer ranges
Room for a bigger/brighter light
Optic is going to have a bigger field of view which means faster target acquisition, faster follow up shots and more situational awareness

I can't think of any reason I'd grab a handgun over a PCC unless I was in extremely tight quarters.

Just maybe PCCs have several significant advantages over a handgun unless you think governments around the world are sending special forces out into the field with "range toys".

I use to shoot a knock down steel match every other weekend with my handgun.  One time I decided to bring out my Ruger PC9 (this was about 20 years ago).  Without really practicing the manual of arms, & the PC9's horrible trigger, I had a significant overall time decrease compared to the gamer handgun I usually used.  

4 points of contact will usually trump 2 points.  And you usually get a velocity boost due to most PCC's having a longer barrel than a handgun.  Throw in a good trigger, and Bob's your uncle.

So I would agree, the PCC for me, is a better option than a handgun.

I've held them and shot them.  The downward recoil impulse was weird.  Wouldn't mind having one if the price was right.  I've already got the glock mags to work with them.

What I dont like is the serialized part is the part with the barrel and whatnot.  So you can't just SBR one and buy a few different caliber conversions for it.

Can't think of any PCC that would have more capacity than a handgun in the same caliber. Now you probably wouldn't WANT to use that 33rd Glock mag in your Glock 19, or the drum mag in it, but to claim "capacity" as a benefit is a wash.  None of my PCC's have the capability for any higher capacity than my handguns.  They all use Glock mags.

Absolutely, over a handgun - but you omitted that in a situation that calls for this, like I mentioned, I'd take a 300BO SBR/pistol - which trumps a handgun-caliber PCC.

If a handgun can't hold a light sufficient for your need, then a 300BO SBR/PCC would be my go-to - not a handgun caliber PCC merely because of the rail space for illumination.

Not sure about this.  If you're referring to the distance you can put the optic or red dot out in front of you, while it's further away on a PCC's rail, the fact that you extend your arms to fire a handgun make this a wash.


Concealability?  While you could conceal a PCC, there'd be no comparison between them in this regard.
Discreetness?  Easier to jump out of your car, walk around your house, or almost any other situation - day or night - to check something out with a handgun at the ready, than do the same with a PCC.
Convenience?  Much easier to drop one in a backpack, put it in a holster, glove compartment, under a seat, etc...  and deploy it, than a PCC.
Maneuverability? (as you mention)
Ability to deploy it from various positions much easier?



Nope.  As I mentioned, their advantage is that they have full-auto capability.  We don't get that unless you have super-deep pockets.  If we DID have that option, then this would be an entirely different discussion.


Don't get me wrong, I love PCC's and have quite a few - but I am still unconvinced that outside of full-auto being available on them, there is no situation that I'd opt for a PCC over a handgun OR a 300BO SBR/Pistol config.

Specifically the bolded part.  I really did not know that.  I have to do some research.  I really want a 9mm and 10mm SBR.

My $.02 is that if you want more power than 9mm PCC has to offer, a .300 blackout makes a lot more sense than 10mm. If you’re receptive to that argument, a standard SBR’d AR15 with a .300 upper and a CMMG RDB 9mm upper with Endomags is a pretty good combo. Both suppress well also if that’s important to you.

I’m not receptive to another caliber.  That would be the only reason.  

I do have a CMMG RDB in 9mm suppressed in full auto.   Not an SOT, it’s a lightning link.  Works great.

Im going to research the SBR aspects of the vector.

If you have a RLL, why would you NOT opt for a 300BO since you could use that RLL in it?  

Or if you have a RLL, you've probably got some $$ and could adhere to the ARFCOM policy and just get both.

The Kriss Vector is cool.  It's unique.  It's unusual.  But without it having full-auto capability, those are the only plusses to the platform IMO.  All of those are intangibles and none are functional benefits.  However, those were still enough for me to buy one along with all the upgrades and accessories for it that you see in my pic above.

I'm not convinced that the platform will be around very long and we'll eventually see a cool video on the Kriss Vector on Forgotten Weapons...  so I also bought a good amount of spare parts for it.

I have a full size MP5 with an R9 suppressor and a CMMG RDB with and Obsidian 45 can. Both in 9mm and both absolutely amazing to shoot suppressed.

I had a whole bunch of 45 and no gun to shoot it, so I eventually decided a Vector in 45 would be a good addition to the two PCC above.

I’ve had it about a year and absolutely love it. It’s about 8lbs with just a chunky red dot, but both of the 9mm PCC above also weigh in around 7-8lbs. So it’s not a big deal.

All these guns are just range toys for me, and they are extremely fun. I don’t care about the vectors controls or it being not as ergonomic as an AR since it’s goal is 100% for putting fat 45 projectiles on steel targets quietly. And it does that well. It’s a fun gun since it’s so different from the rest of my collection. People at the range love it since it stand out on a table.

10/10, never giving this one up. Honestly I like it suppressed as much as my MP5 clone. It’s that much fun.
Last think I need to do is SBR it and add the OG folding stock.

Vector in 45 with Obsidian 45


CMMG 5.5” RDB and Obsidian 45 on 3 lug:


MP5 with R9

I just bought a .22LR version of the KRISS Vector and am impressed.  Built just like the 9mm version...  has 30rd mags and not one single malfunction in over 500 rounds so far.

I’ve had a 9mm since 2018 and it’s one of my first stamped PCC guns.  After shooting it a good bit I wouldn’t recommend it to anyone over even an AR platform 9mm as much more than a range toy.  It’s a cool gun but here’s my experience. It shines in FA  but a lot is lost in the semi version-  

Clean/Clean/Unsuppressed-   It’s reliable for around 500 rounds then starts getting dirty and turns into a little bitch.

Clean/clean/Suppressed-  150-200 rounds and it’s starts to fail now and then.  

Dirty-  all bets off

It takes Glock mags-  Glock mags in PCC platforms you actually shoot are straight garbage.  It’s mostly a loading issue where you can load other mags faster that I prefer.  

Now this year I noticed Kriss had 25% off and I noticed that they had the sidefolding setup available so I threw a little cash at this dog to see if I could somehow find more love for it.  

Somewhere in the 5-6k round count on this one.

I managed to pick up a tan .45 SDP enhanced for $1100 on guns.com right before Christmas.  I like weird guns so this has been on my list for quite a while now.  I filed a form 1 on it the day it came in so I can throw a proper stock on it once it's approved...till then it does have a side folding brace that works pretty well.  I was able to put a bunch of rounds through it over the holidays, and everyone really had fun shooting it.  

I have only fired it with my AAC Tirant, but I was surprised how poorly it suppressed.  Next go I'll bring my Rugged Obsidian and see if it's a platform, or suppressor thing, but compared to several other .45 platforms I have shot with the same cans, it seemed oddly loud.  The recoil impulse is super weird.  Basically 0 impact on your shoulder, but it slams downward in a super bizarre way that is downright alien to anyone who shoots a lot.  It's not actually hard, but because it is contrary to what you know a gun to do, it seems over accentuated and takes a few rounds to get used to.  I'm sure the back pressure from the suppressor amplified this a bit....but that's all part of why I was interested in the first place.

It definitely fits a weird slot in my collection.  My PS90 SBR is a lot shorter and hold more rounds, my SBR AR platforms are not much longer with suppressors, and my M&P 22-15 SBR is toyish in comparison.  Odds are it will just be a range toy for me, but at the price I paid that's perfectly OK.  I would think it would be fine for a hog gun when we are walking through the dense brush, but there are still better options out there.

A side note on the mag extensions.  I bought 2 complete 30 rounder's directly from Kriss and I tried my darndest to jack them up but they held just fine.  I'm wondering if they either worked out the kinks with the extensions, or changed something up with the full kits (they do have actual Glock mags in them)
I had seen Garand Thumbs video of him twisting and having the mags fall out, or bumping and pushing on them and having them unseat....but they held true for me there as well (may be an improvement in the mag catch)

Overall I'm happy with my Vector, it's as weird as I had always hoped it would be.  Fits right in with all the other weird stuff I have in the safe.

I have a first Gen in .45 (that was all they made back then) which has been SBR'd. It's never failed to fire and fits me ergonomically, but it's probably my least-shot PCC. I will say, when I invite someone to pick something from my collection, they always want to shoot the Kriss. Generally speaking, it's been great. I have some time on a FA in .45 and it was silly fast and ate extractors like crazy; my FA M10/45 is much more reliable in comparison. Overall, it's a nice addition to a collection because it is so different, but it's also a bit weird and heavy.

Attached File

Looks like you have the buffer tube type upper. Which folding stock adapter are you using?

That's an older pic.  I have the proper Gen 2 hinged upper on my SBR now.  

However, at the time, I used a Spartan mount adapter.

I’m looking for one of those in black for mine. I saw the Spartan, and wasn’t too confident in its durability.

There aren't many choices.  It's a 3D printed part, but it's definitely strong enough.

Downside is that the hook doesn't align properly for folding the stock to the side.  It also looks cheap.  I ended up just getting the proper hinged upper from Kriss since I invested in SBR'ing it.  Is the 3D part worth $45-50 shipped?  Probably not - unless you have zero intention of buying the proper upper ($280 + tax and shipping) and still want to use the original stock on a Gen 2 Vector.  The upper is very rarely in-stock, so you have to jump on them when they come in.

I had one in 45 ACP. It was a cool gun, but I do not regret selling it. It's heavy. Most of my Ar's are lighter, which negates the benefit of a PCC in my mind.

I now have an APC9k. Any Ar that compact and lightweight will be a flashbang with skeletonized parts. It actually fills a niche that Ar's don't.

This is a timely thread, I just picked up a 10mm vector from my FFL yesterday.  It's the sdp model, so now I'm going to have to wait for a stamp.  I put a few rounds through it and so far it seems like something I'll like.  Plus it has mag commonality with my carry gun, so that's a plus.

I looked at the ballistics for 9mm through different barrels, the Vector SBR 5.5" or pistol in 5.5" wasn't worth it to me. I feel the better way to SBR is Form 1, cut/thread/crown the barrel to something like 7.5"-8.5" which gives it enough velocity for 150-160 yd if needed. The velocity difference above 8.5" doesn't seem to be enough to impact ballistics much. I was also thinking of using my EOTech EXPS3-2 (which I had lying around) and that second lower dot, according to Strelok, would be about 145-160 yd. So zero at 100 yd for the main dot, and if I need to shoot further than 100, start going to the second dot.

Also I heard it is really easy to accidentally drop the mag due to the large paddle on the mag catch. Seems to be an OEM Glock 1981 mag catch (10mm/45 3rd gen) with 2 holes for the screws to fit in. I am thinking of going with a Vicker's Extended 10mm/45 or Extended 9mm, or even try an OE Glock 9mm mag catch. Seems that there's more than enough mag catch above the frame even without the paddle.

I'm also having a hard time finding torque values for a lot of the fasteners as well as the castle nut for the buffer tube. Do we torque that castle nut like on an AR15 lower? Or do we snug it down with a wrench like all of the YouTubers?

Less than a year later and I finally followed through. SBR'd with OG folding stock and vert grip.

We need a dedicated Vector pic thread.