This is now the Official KSG build thread to honor Edward Avila Jr.-bodybagger

I just acquired a KSG that I'm going to use/modify.

I've looked at them for years, and always stayed away, but now I thought was a good time to make it happen.

The main purpose of this thing is to serve as a pest control tool when I'm out in the range area behind the house.

There are many snakes, skunks, and coyotes.

So a short multi-role shotgun I thought would be a great ticket for this. I'd have the ability to shoot shot or a slug when needed, so the dual magazine option seems perfect. All in a short overall package that would be easy to carry in the truck or on me while walking around. Also, the ability to shoot mini shells is key, as I can have decent capacity without needing reloads.

The only catch for me right now is that I'm not home to test it, and so the "build" portion of it will be phase 1, with the range report as a second phase closer to the end of the year.

AS PURCHASED

I don't see anything inherently wrong with the KSG the way it comes (with the exception of needing a sight), but I know there are some areas that could be improved.

While addressing those I figured I could also play with some of the other accessories and document everything here.

While it certainly has a "plastic" feel to it, it does seems to function smoothly, has decent weight to it, and feels solidly built.

I went with a gray version, since it was an impulse buy and they only had gray or black.



PARTS ORDERED

I have ordered a number of parts for it, which I'll detail here in the coming days.

I've ordered from Hi-Tech Custom Concepts, M-Carbo, and I'm waiting to hear back from KelTec directly.

I've also ordered more parts than I can use, simply to be able to compare the various options and document them here.

So over time, perhapsI will be able to expand the catalog of parts available even more than I'm doing on this go around, and how they compare.

I am also planning to do some sort of giveaway for the parts I do not use, once we get the comparisons done, so if you have a KSG, stay tuned!

I know I received the first set of parts already, with the second scheduled for delivery this week ,which means I'll be getting started shortly.


=== UPDATE 1/20/2020 ===

Here is the "final" configuration. There are two items I have not updated (muzzle device and magazine selector), and that is because I want to get more range time as it sits now before I start modifying anything else.



These are numbered in the order in which I made the modifications, and I'll get into why, alternatives I did not use, etc below.

(1) MAGPUL MBUS SIGHTS

The first thing I needed was the sights- the shotgun would function fine as it came, as long as it had some sights.

I was torn between a red dot and iron sights, but I was leaning towards the folding iron sights because I wanted a lower profile, less stuff to get hung up, etc. The intended purpose for this is as a truck gun for pest control around the property.

The most logical fit here are the Magpul MBUS sights, but my concern was how low they would sit, and if it would be comfortable to use and get a good cheek weld.

Only one way to find out, so I purchased a set and put them on. Luckily for me, they were not too low. There were however a couple of problems with getting a good sight picture:
1) the overall package was not comfortable (to be addressed as we move forward)
2) the small aperture on the rear sight is too small for a quick acquisition, so I have to cut it off and just leave the larger peep

Had I elected to use a red dot, there are a couple of options with a center dot and a round circle that would have been a good fit here.

(2) KELTEC EXTENDED BUTT-PAD

In order to get the shotgun to fit me better, I needed a butt-pad extension. There are a number of them out there, some which slip right over the existing one, but the factory extended buttpad looked like the best solution. It is designed to replace the existing rubber butt-pad and to reduce felt recoil, and IMHO looked the best.

The process for installing this was fairly simple, just disassembling the gun and removing a few allen screws, but there was a catch- there is a metal bar at the top of the buttstock assembly, and it has mounting holes that are off-center. It can only be installed one way, or you will keep jamming the action. Basically, just install it making sure the bar is flush with the plastic surfaces. If more detail is needed, I'm happy to provide it here.

Once this was installed, the KSG felt much better to put to my shoulder, but the sights were not right where I wanted them. I tested this by shouldering the gun with my eyes closed, and then opening them.

(3) MCARBO KYDEX CHEEK REST RECOIL PAD

I had a couple of cheekpads, both Kydex but one with and one without neoprene. I ended up preferring the one with the neoprene as it was a bit taller and more comfortable. Time will tell if it lasts, but for now it is comfortable. If the neoprene comes off, it is basically the exact same Kydex as the other.

With this cheek riser installed, not only is my face no longer on the bare metal of the receiver, but it helps me shoulder perfectly with my sights.

So with these first 3 pieces, I was starting to really like the fit of the KSG. For me, it was a huge improvement from the stock configuration.

(4) MCARBO GRIP PLUG

This is a small addition, but it allows you to store things in the grip, or at least to seal it up.

For me, it includes a few adjustment tools I was starting to accumulate, like an allen wrench and the front sight adjustment tool.

In order to avoid them rattling around, put everything in a small zip lock plastic bag, and then in the grip.

(5) MAGPUL XTM HAND STOP KIT

There are so many options for the front grip, and I tried to read about everyone's experiences and check out the available options.

One of the big factors is how close your "working" hand is to the muzzle, and photos on the internet show what can happen when things go wrong.

A lot of people opt for a vertical grip, but I'm not a fan, so I wanted some sort of a hand stop. In playing with some of these, I also found that I benefitted from something at the back to help in cycling the action, so basically a hand stop at the front, and one at the back.

Lucky for me, the Magpul XTM is the perfect solution. I put the smaller hand stop at the front, to keep my hand from slipping in front of the muzzle, and the larger one in the back which aids in cycling the action by having something to push against.

All parts are the perfect size for what I wanted without being overly large, and the filler rail covers were just enough to fill in the space between the stops, so the whole kit fit like it was purpose made for the KSG.

At this point I was really happy with the fit and function of my modifications. Everything fit me well, and was easy to operate. With these five changes alone, I think anyone that is unhappy with their KSG might feel differently about it, and I certainly could have stopped here.

But of course, I didn't...

(6) MCARBO TARGET TRIGGER and SRING KIT

A lot of people say this is not necessary. The trigger on the KSG is not bad, but that doesn't mean it can't be better. A shotgun is not a precision long range rifle, so a 2-stage trigger is not a necessity, but that's what it felt like because of the long pre-travel.

I was not bothered by the heavy trigger; mine was about 7+lbs. Again, for a shotgun and not a long-range rifle, I'm ok with that.

The MCARBO trigger IMHO is great because you can eliminate all that pre-travel. Many describe the process as being a pain in the ass, and I expected that. But watching the video from MCARBO, it didn't seem too terrible, so I decided to jump in and replace both the trigger and the springs. These are two separate kits.

I will link to their video here because it outlines the process in great detail, but let me just say it was not as easy for me as they make it look. That's certainly the experience you gain from doing it over and over, but the design of the KSG is to one for disassembling (really reassembling is what gets you) this lower easily.



In the end, despite the PITA, I'm happy with the new trigger, and now it's much more of a crisp single stage pull, at 3-4lbs; definitely not too light, and easier to get followup shots.

(7) KELTEC ALUMINUM MAGAZINE FOLLOWER KIT

Here's another one of those "really not necessary" modifications. There's nothing wrong with the stock mag followers, and they're bright white so they're easy to see. They're also plastic, which I'm not a fan of, but on a mostly plastic gun, it's almost a moot point.

However, I decided I wanted the experience of replacing them, and cleaning out the magazine tubes, so I ordered this Keltec set, as well as a stainless steel version.

This is where I'll mention the first tool I really found to be useful so far and that was the magazine plug tool from MCARBO. I first tried the little wrench that came with the follower kit, but it bent immediately when trying to remove the plugs without heating them up first.

With the MCARBO tool, it was super easy- just screw it in by hand, then use a wrench to back them out and the plugs came right out.

I cleaned up both magazine tubes, and installed my new aluminum followers. Another reason I chose these over the stock or the stainless version, is both of those are a closed center. So when checking the mag tubes by feel, it's had to know if what you're touching is a follower or a shell. These have a huge open center, so I know instantly and without looking if the tube is empty.

Reassembly was straightforward, and I'm again happy with my decision.

(8) MCARBO QD SINGLE POINT SLING MOUNT

My last upgrades had to do with the sling mount. I'm a big fan of a QD mount on everything I own, and so I didn't want to limit myself on the KSG. The problem is there are not a lot of good choices out there to use a QD sling (like the Magpul MS4 I use almost exclusively).

I also like versatility, and the option to use a 1 or 2 point configuration. So I opted for the only choice I found out there, which was the MCARBO solution; this basically replaces your takedown pin, but the tradeoff is you lose the no-tool disassembly of your KSG. I'm not sure how much of a limitation that will be yet, so the jury is still out.

For more options, I replaced both pins with these, so I have a rearward as well as a more centered mount point. What I lack is a forward mount point for a 2 point configuration, so we have one more piece to add in order to switch over to QD sling mounts, and that's the last item here.

(9) HI-TECH QD TOP RAIL FRONT MOUNT BLOCK

This is a QD sling mount point that as the name implies, attaches to your top rail.

I put mine behind the front sight vs moving the front sight back a slot, and it works fine. I've been carrying the KSG mostly in a 2-point configuration when in the field.

Another alternative is to just go with a non-QD sling like the magpul MS1, and use the factory mount points returning my tool-less disassembly function and removing some extra weight.



So for now, that's where everything is. I have yet to play with muzzle brakes, as I want some time the way it is, and I want to figure out a way to test real function of those brakes, some of which are huge. I'm mostly using my KSG with mini shells, so a muzzle brake is really not something I feel I need right now.

I do want to see if I can't get some doors to breach and see how some of those work for that purpose, as well as some of the standoff spikes that are available. The problem is all of the above parts are pretty heavy.

I also have not done anything with the magazine tube selection lever, as I want more time with the stock one before I change it out.

I will also continue to add more detail to the above, or if people want to see any specific images of anything in particular.

A big shout out to MCARBO, Hi-Tech Custom Concepts, and Kel-Tech for their support and the products they're putting out.

I was very skeptical of the KSG initially, but now it has become one of my favorite tools thanks to them.


REST of the PARTS

Coming soon.

RANGE REPORT

Coming soon.

MISC

If there are others out there with experience modifying the KSG, I'm happy to include your experiences in this thread, so welcome your input.

The biggest thing I've seen that concerns reliability is that KelTecs QC isn't always the best. The main thing is parkerizing in the chamber where they are sloppy with that. Then a general deburring of all the internals and the mold flashing on the plastic parts. A fluff and buff if you will. Here's a good link
https://www.thektog.org/threads/new-ksg-fluff-and-buff-chamber-polish-and-forearm-notch-post-operation-thoughts.262299/

Finally got all the parts I was expecting yesterday, so I will begin to make a list here, and as I have the opportunity, we'll compare and eventually get a range report when I get back home and have a range!

My goal is to have a catalog of parts here with as many as I can get my hands on so people can see how they fit, size, function, etc and have better info for their own needs. Obviously no one needs or can fit this many parts on their shotgun.

I know it’s taken me way longer than expected with this project, but I’ve been playing with parts and I think I have it down.

I can say that with these modifications, this thing has become one of my favorite firearms and I’ve got a few hundred rounds with the mini shells down range.

Two major trade offs, one with my build and one with the KSG in general:

1) Because of my purpose for this gun, which is pest control around the property, I did not fit a light on it, nor do I see a convenient way to add one with the choices I’ve made. If this were a home defense gun, a role I feel would be a great fit for this, then a light would take priority.

2) The benefit of a short package is maneuverability in tight spaces, which is one of the reasons this would make a great home defense weapon. The drawback is that you lose the “pointability” of a long sight radius you get with a traditional shotgun. So while I can’t shoot skeet as well with this, for a tactical role the benefits far outweigh this trade off.

So what I’ll be doing is updating this thread up top with the parts I chose, and the parts I did not choose as well as my thought process.

What I need to come up with what to do with the parts I did not use. Originally I was thinking of giving them away individually, but I haven’t come up with a good mechanism for choosing what goes to who. Another option is to pass them around so people can see and try them before passing along to the next person? I look to you guys to come up with a solution. I want to make sure they go to people that will use them, so post any ideas.

As I mentioned in the previous post, I'm updating the OP above.
Initial round of parts is now updated with more to come.
Feel free to ask any questions, or details you'd like to see.

Got in a couple of cases of the Challenger minishells today (on sale they were like $.35/rd), but they only had #7.5 shot and slugs, so no buckshot. I’ll use the shot for snakes and such, and I’ll try to shoot some clays for fun and see how bad it is with the KSG.

I’ve heard the Challenger (compared to Federal and Aguila) were the least accurate, so I wanted to make sure they worked ASAP and went out in a light rain to try them before it got worse. Weather will keep me away from more formal results for a few days at least. Due to the hurry, I used existing targets, so ignore all the extra holes.

Both rounds fired reliably, and I managed to get 20rds of each through the gun with no problems. I found the shotshells to pattern well and expand to about 8” at 10yds (just guessing right now without more accurate measurements). Slugs fired offhand at 10yds were same point of impact as Aguila slugs, and seemed just as accurate.

So again, for the money I can’t complain. Functioned reliably, shot well, and they were a great price! I’ll get more formal results and measurements when I get a dry sunny day.

Here were a few #7.5 rounds shot at center mass, and a couple at the head:


And here is a closeup of the 12 slugs fired at the head at 10yds, offhand:


With the Aguila, there were some wadding holes in the target (you can see the couple of ragged holes around mid-target) which I did not see with the Challenger slugs; challenger were all nice clean round holes.

Not very heavy, and all the weight is obviously further rearward than on a traditional design, so it handles well.

I still have not fired regular 2-3/4” shells through it, but combined with the mini shells, I think it’s a great system overall. So I think of mine as a 1-3/4“ that’s capable of firing 2-3/4” (or 3” for that matter) as needed. That versatility combined with the 1-3/4” capacity and reliability makes it out-rank my semi-auto (and really any other) shotguns for most applications.

So far still very happy with the mods done and the current configuration.

MBUS SIGHTS

Well now that I've made my decision to go with the MBUS sights vs a red dot or other buis, I have some tweaking to do on these.

Why? Because I wasn't born with the normal gene that just lets me be satisfied when something is good; there's a perpetual quest to make things just a little better, even when having passed the point of diminishing returns long ago.

So today it has been focused on my sights. Again, I don't have a problem with the Magpul MBUS plastic sights, as I think they go as well with the KSG as any other forearm out there. There are however two points that I feel I can easily improve upon.

REAR SIGHT

The REAR sight - as is typical of an AR rear sight, has both a large and a smaller aperture available. The smaller aperture is typically meant for greater accuracy/longer range shooting, which is definitely NOT something that will be needed on this particular build.

So I can leave the smaller aperture folded out of the way, but when the gun is stowed, as it will often be when carrying in the back of the truck with the sights folded, this small aperture in the "out of the way" position actually sticks up and gets in the way of everything. Typically it will get pushed back into the "in use" position where it blocks our view through the rear sight too much.

So there are two options if leaving it the way it is is not one of them...

1) Cut that entire aperture off - which I intended to do initially. But in looking at it, it seems like leaving as much of it in place as possible strengthens the other aperture just because there is more material there.

2) Drill out or cut off the smaller aperture to not interfere with the sight picture, leaving most of the supporting plastic around it. My fear with this is just messing it up and not having a perfectly round hole, throwing it off center, or otherwise interfering with the clean rear image.

Looking for ideas from the audience here as to what you recommend, or if anyone has tried something similar. Again, drilling, cutting, melting all come to mind but I don't want to mess up a perfectly good sight if I can learn from someone else's experience.

Here is a pic or two of the area in question:




FRONT SIGHT

So what can we do to the front sight?

One of the things I wanted to do was add low light capability with a Tritium post. Simple enough solution.

But then I thought perhaps a chevron or other shape might be better for quick target acquisition?

Well I found the best of both worlds from Blitzkrieg Components. They offer a front post replacement that is a chevron shape:



And if that's not enough, they offer it in multiple colors, with and without a tritium tipped chevron:



The only downside I see is that it looks like the tritium is only visible every 180 or perhaps even 360 degrees which would limit zeroing. Not sure if it would be a real problem on s shotgun sighted in for use at 10-30yds, but it is a potential problem.

So while I would have ordered that already, it seems to be sold out everywhere. If anyone finds it confirmed in-stock, in white or green (yellow?) with the tritium, let me know! (I've got an email out to Blitzkrieg)

Or if you have experience with either mod here, for the fronts or rears, I'd love to hear about it. And yes, I know I'm putting way more money into the cheap MBUS sights than they probably deserve, but I'm happy with that solution. Of course I could have gotten a decent red-dot for less money...

I am however confident that when complete, this KSG will be perfectly customized to me, and that is what got many of us into the AR game to start with!

It's not all about the destination, but the journey itself.

We lost Ed Jr.
https://www.ar15.com/forums/General/-ARFCOM-Founder-Edward-Avila-Passed-Away-Today/5-2312718/?page=1
He lost a hard fought battle with cancer. I had hoped this thread was a sign of things improving.
My condolences and prayers to the Avila family.

This is now the "Official" KSG build thread in honor of Edward Avila Jr.