I ordered a Agm Pvs 14 3AL1. The other day. I sort of was panic buying it. Found from a place I have ordered before.

I thought I was ordering a White Phosphor unit and price was $3175. Minus coupon. $2857. Delivered.

Ordered Tuesday...received today...sweet.

Took to dark room left cap on....turns on....green film screen with a decent size spot up near top corner.

I thought I did ok at this stage of things for a white film unit, but I must have confused myself looking at so many kinda quickly.

Should I be looking to return this unit. Isn't $3175 for green unit high even without blem?

What kind of tube

Does it have a spec sheet?

Night vision devices are sold and spots are expected. Different tube runs have different spot allowances. This is a normal thing. If the spot falls within the specs for that particular tube - then there's zero issues.

AGM uses shit optics and if you could return it, I would. They also use Elbit thin filmed XLSH tubes. They're not worth $3175, especially when TNVC was selling the XLSH white phosphor tubes in actual mil spec housings and optics for $2400 just yesterday. The gen 3 level 1 nomenclature they use means your level 1 device will have spots. Level 3 is usually their clean screens

Did the listing say anything about black spots and zones? Black spots are common and some tubes are worse than others. It is an inherent risk in the manufacturing and assembly process.

As for the price, i've seen green phosphor PVS14s go for as low as 2300 and as high as 3900, so $3200 is not considered bad in my opinion. But that is just my opinion.

Like others have stated, spots do not equal a blem.

Every different spec allows for different amounts of spots of different sizes in different zones.

My TNCV has a spot on the outer edge of the tubr (zone 3?) and a tiny spot closer to the center but still out of the center (zone 2?).

Only the larger spot is noted on the spec sheet because the smaller is too small to be graded in their system. Neither are noticeable unless you are looking and the small on is only noticeable when looking at walls/ solid surfaces.

The thing that matters is, can you live with what you got for the price you paid? Nobody else here as looked through the tube.

Thanks for all the info. I left the spec sheet on my desk at work and forgot to bring it home with me.  

I feel like an ass right now. My wife have been prepping like a mad woman the past few weeks and is convinced shits going down. So she gave the green light on NV so I kinda jumped quick..  Seemed like much like everything else, everything was out of stock and or hard to find.

I have an AGM Handheld Thermal and its real solid and one of my favorite purchases.  I swore the one I bought and researched was a white tube model, however looking now I guess not.

I jumped when I found a coupon code and they don't charge sales tax so it was over a  $500 savings, so I thought I made a good choice.

I have read a little on here and such, but had never read that spots were normal in new units. The only one I have ever seen in person was an older military one with use spots.

I doubt I can return for a refund, maybe just an exchange, but I don't think any other models were in stock, most likely why my brain made me choose this one.


THanks for the help though guys.

@Synyster06Gates

AGM's website says the PVS-14 the OP bought is 810G Mil Spec.  How do you know they don't use mil housings?  Thanks.

Agree with everything you say but I have also seen some AGM units with complete trash photonis tubes.  Like so bad they are pretty much unusable.  There’s also a “get it today” premium.  Everyone is backed up order wise and it’s going to be weeks to months until you see something if you place an order.  Some people want something right now because they are worried about unrest, etc.

An alternative route wound be to buy something that’s a known quantity but used right now and place an order to get something with the specs you want later.  Lots of dealers dont make you pay 100% up front for orders.  

There’s a few TNVC, JRH, and UNV ‘14s in the EE right now for under what OP spent.  For what his budget  he could buy one of those right now, sent it back to be purged (if he cares about that) and use the rest of the money to put a down payment on a new unit if he wants. The prices are good enough he could sell it later for what he paid when his new unit was ready.

And he wouldn’t have to use an AGM unit

AGM uses a three tier system to advertise  how "clean" a tube is  **1 is the cleanest offering whereas **3 has the most spots.  They usually provide a sheet with the device showing where the spots are.  

Thus in their system a 3NL1 device would be US style gen 3, in green phosphor, with the cleanest spec they offer - whereas a 3NW2 tube would be gen3, in white phosphor with intermediate grade "spots"

Its also hard to get good info on their products - the specs pages on their website lack key basic information e.g. tube type, SNR, EBI, HALO etc.  Also they don't identify where the tube and housings are made.  

A vendor should be able to tell you your tube spec as a minimum and who the manufacturer was e.g. Elbit, Photonis or Ekran.

Ok...no spec sheet was included.

This was in the description

Intensifier TubeGen 3 Auto-Gated Emerald “Level 1”
Resolution64-72 lp/mm
Field of view cleanness by zoneGen 3 IIT 3AL1 is the highest resolution and the cleanest offered by AGM. There are practically no visible spots in Zone 1.


No sure if I can return for refund or even if I should. A couple popped up on the EE right after I ordered this or I would have snagged one of those.  The unit seems to work fine and now that I am aware that spots are common not sure what I should do

JRH has a similarity priced WP unit with echo tubes right now.
Ask for arfcom discount.

my suggestion would be keep it and use it for a little and if you decide you really want something better than look into getting one from JRH or TNVC (which could take a few months) and once you receive it you could sell the AGM or if you really want something better right now than return it(if you can) and keep an eye on EE for a decent used one

Thanks I think I'll do just that.  I only plan/planned on using it for shtf for the most part. I have 2 thermal units I use weekly for hunting.

@Yotehunter87

So they didn't include a spec sheet?  Do you know what brand tube it has in it?

I've looked through everything and don't see a spec sheet anywhere, just a receipt and the manual.

No idea on the tube but am going to ask.

AGM says it has a 30 day full refund, store credit, or exchange on most items.

Return it. Run. Don’t walk. RUN away from AGM.

There is NO reason to buy that garbage if you’re in the states.

@Yotehunter87

There is a "hidden" pocket inside the green bag that is closed with velcro.  Did you check in there?

Without a spec sheet you should return that ASAP if you can, even if you are happy with it's performance. You will get absolutely bukakked on resale selling a green agm without a spec sheet. The assumption will absolutely be that your tube is trash, even if it isn't.   Photos and video won't prove it isn't either.  I bet you couldn't get more than 2200 here on arfcom. Maybe less. You might get a bit more on ebay but the fees will eat up those gains.

The fact that they advertise no zone 1 blems (only highly discounted blem units should have a zone 1 blem) and 64-72 res (normal gen 3 res and fairly unimportant spec... lol) as their top of the line is very telling. They don't mention SNR (most important spec) on purpose.....


Call up nvision and see if they have any zone 3 blem filmless units available.  For 3300 you could have top of the line nv that will hold value.  You could also just get in line for an xls if you want to stay under 3k.  Unless you really think eating 6-800$ right off that bat is worth having it in hand, right now.

OP you got fleeced by a brand that most here turn their nose up at, with good reason. Send it back and get one from a reputable dealer with a 10 year warranty, spec sheet, lower cost, you literally can't lose unless you keep the set you have now.

I bet you that AGM doesn't even exist within 5 years

Yeah, i'd roll the dice on a ngi-14 for 2400. It still might have spots, and could be worse tube specs; but you will never know with the one you got.

I was ecstatic with my ngi rnvgs. The left tube has a decent sized spot. They also have great specs.

I did find it...thank you.   Not sure what I should be looking at. Everything passed on it, the spot is right where the sheet says it should be. I don't see anyplace where tube manufacture would be. I sent an email to dealer asking if they happened to know about tube, no response yet.

I will follow up on Monday. Thanks for all the advice. I have read up on stuff thru the years, but most the tube stuff loses me. I mentioned before I have an AGM handheld thermal and its really rock solid and I like it a lot. I would not have guessed about avoiding them for NV.

What is the FOM on the spec sheet?

This is good advice, I really like mine.

Good to hear there is a spec sheet.

Post:

Signal to Noise ratio (SNR)
EBI
Halo
Resolution


We can tell you if it worth keeping for the price.

Here is a pic of the bottom portion with the data

Hmm, no ebi or halo listed which is odd, wonder who made the tube..

That said, the specs of that tube are a rip off for the price.   Particularly that fucking huge goomba of a blem in zone 2. That would be a discount blem tube from one of the honest companies, not a "level 1" tube .  SNR of 24 is OK if it doesn't have trash ebi/halo
and will function, but it is a shit deal for the price you paid, even without the blem.  That tube would fetch like1800- here based on what I have seen..  As soon as the panic buying stops it will rapidly be worth even less I suspect.   A lot of really high quality white phosphor tubes going out the door right now at 2300-2400$ .  When people calm down lots of people will be reselling at a loss to pay bills or for some toy they would use more.

I would return that in a heartbeat.   You could  buy any number of used tubes on the ee or ebay and save 1k for similar quality. Steele industries had used omni 4 pvs 14s for like 1800 recently, they would likey beat this tube on specs and cosmetics.  There are numerous other options from some of the vendors here that will get you much nicer for the same or less price.  If you feel you need them in hand fast just call goonin gear, nvision, nocturnality, JRH, tnvc, etc and ask what they have for low lead times.  Call though, don't look on the websites.

If you get on the reddit nv subreddit you can  find the discord link.  Goonin gear and steele hang out and chat a bunch
  You can talk via discord chat, if that your thing.  I also suggest finding the nocturnality OG account and looking at their comparison/learning posts.  They will teach you about specs and give amazing comparison videos.

Imo for that price you should be getting white phosphor and near SNR 28+, ebi 1ish, no massive blems unless it it a discounted high spec tube.... Certainly not a zone 2 one. On top of that you will be able to trust you got real carson optics, etc.

100% WRT analogue - also not just the States, it applies anywhere.

Thanks. I will call the dealer and attempt to return on Monday. What should I say is the basis for returning? Horrible specs for the price?   THanks again everyone for the help.

Double tap.

Imo honestly that huge blem would be the deal breaker for me.  Specs are just low for the price but still usesble, but the blem with those specs is a deal breaker, at least for me.  You might also just mention you thought you were ordering a WP tube.


If you can't return it, just use it.  It really will be plenty useable, the resale will just not be great.  You could always list it for a break even price on ebay and see if someone take it...

The performance of that tube is poor.  

(1) The blem is a shocker
(2) The lp/mm quoted by AGM is 72lpmm-64lpmm
(3) The centre of your tube at best is 64lp/mm and will be lower from there towards the margins e.g. its out of spec
(4) The performance is sub par for a Gen 3 tube - look at the FOM, its below the old minimum spec for the Gen 2+ Photonis Echo which was 1600.  

If you can, go to a low light area and take some photos through the eye piece

Further, you paid for their premium specification and you have not got a premium product.  You have mutton dressed as lamb.

Its meant to be their "highest resolution and cleanest"

Have any links? Or just check the approved retailers on the daily to watch for drops?

The best prices on high quality XLS tubes is from NGI (tnvc).  They were only up for sales for 12 hours 2 days ago before they shut down sales to keep lead times down.

That’s not a factory data sheet. Lol

I bought on their 4th of July release and paid $2400 for a 1764 FOM tube. Very fair IMO.

Its the AGM QA/QC sheet.

Rma initiated.  Sending back later today.  Thanks again for your help guys. Now back to looking again.

Thanks again

Good to hear!  I suggest calling nvision.  They only sell what they have in stock and are high quality in house builders with a good warranty.  They can talk you through what they have at your price point.

Gotta agree

I overnighted my unit back to vendor and just received a refund notification email. No complaints on the store at all. Thanks again