Took the 1886 Winchester (browning ) to the range today . I’m having to come up with a new load using OE 2f as I don’t have anymore 3f. Was able to find a load that shoots about fist sized groups and still let’s me shoot all 8 out of the gun without getting too fouled up to work the action.  About 58gr of OE 2f topped with a milk box wad , a grease cookie , another milk box wad and a saeco 405gr bullet seated to the crimp groove. Now I need to sort my bullets by weight as I pulled them from a batch I recently made and didn’t size or sort yet. Not bad for fairly inconsistent bullets. I only shot 4 shot groups as my rifle holds 8 and only make 8 at a time when doing load testing.

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This is new to me. Your loading black powder in a brass case? I didn't know this was a thing. Is it smooth bore?

@goer001

Brass cases came out long before smokeless powder. This is a rifle , 45-70. The original load was 45-70-500 but I shoot a reduced  45-55-405 load ( mine is more of a 45-58-405)

In any of the black powder cartridges the first number is caliber , the seconded is the powder charge and if there is a third it’s the bullet weight.

Home,  If you up your charge, you should improve your groups and reduce fouling.  Also, make up a lube of 1:1 by weight of bees wax and neats foot oil with a an oz. lanolin per 5lbs lube.  Lube your bullets with and quit with the grease cookie.  You should be able to shoot 30 or so rounds with out problem.

I’ll give that recipe a try next time I make a batch of lube , I think I still have a few pounds of wax around. I’m currently using a mix of beeswax , salt free pork lard and some seed oil of some sort it’s been a few years since I’ve made any. I’ve found with this rifle and bullet combo that I can’t get enough lube on the bullets. I’ve been meaning to get the big lube bullet mold for my rifle so I can up my powder charges. Also I might hit a wall when it comes to accuracy, at a certain point the gun will shoot better than me and I may almost be to that point. I’ve proven in the past to only shoot around 3moa with other rifles with much better triggers  and iron sights. I think it’s my eyes. I figure if I can get consistent 4moa groups without too much fouling that will be my load.

A huge amount of history was shot with black powder cartridge rifles, handguns and shotguns.  The first practical cartridge firearms came out in the 1850s.  Smokeless didn't come out until the mid 1880s in military use and in the USA the first smokeless cartridges didn't come until the 1890s, with the .30-40 Krag in 1892 for the military and the .30-30 Winchester and .25-35 Winchester in 1895 for the commercial market.  

So, in the USA all the cowboy stories, hunting of the buffalo herds, and indian wars where all done with black powder cartridges.  Lots of very interesting world history during this period too.  There were hundreds of different black powder cartridges developed at this time and there are many still cataloged by manufacturers today such as: .38 Special, .45 Colt, .38-40, .44-40, .38-55, .45-70 and various shotgun gauges.  A common designation for a 12-gauge load is 1 1/4 - 3 1/4 - #7.5.  That is 1 1/4 ounces of #7.5 size shot propelled by 3 1/4 drams of Black Powder. (In the smokeless era it is the velocity equivalent to 3 1/4 drams of BP.)

@mindless

I upped the charge to 60gr of 2F OE and just put 6 into about a 1.5” group and threw 2 way right by about 6 inches. I think I found my load. Just need to get some more trigger time and get better with my rifle. I tend to jerk the trigger as it’s a bit heavy.

My best .45-70 load is,
535gr Lyman Postell, SPG lubed
.030 fiber card
65 gr Goex FFg, thru 24” drop tube
Federal LPM primers
Winchester brass

Are you able to get a short enough AOL with the Postell to work though a magazine or is this for a single shot rifle?

Single shot. Shiloh Sharps