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Posted: 3/26/2020 4:15:06 PM EDT
[#1]
I still think a LPVO will be better. I would like to see a new gen elcan with some improvments though. I dig the idea of them a lot.
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Posted: 3/26/2020 4:38:02 PM EDT
[#2]
I have a 17” and a 13” 17S (waiting on 6.5CM for 20S):
17” is for mid range and/or stationary shooting. Equipped with Elcan 1.5-6x or EOTech Vudu 5-25x (will move to 20S when I get one). 13” is for short range and/or run & gun. Equipped with EOTech EXPS2-0 + G33 (removed when not needed). Swap in Pulsar Thermion XP50 when needed. I like to configure optics/gun to each use case. |
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Posted: 3/27/2020 1:48:09 PM EDT
[#3]
I wnt from LPVO's to the Elcan. Weight/balance is better, built in mounting system, takes less space on the 12 o'clock rail, and I never use 2x or 3x anyways and its faster to go up or down magnification. Illuminator has NV settings, and its built like a tank. Where are the cons?
*My experiences based on USO SN4 1.5-6x DFP, Vortex Razor HD 1-6, Vortex PST 1-4x.* |
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Posted: 3/30/2020 11:53:08 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I wnt from LPVO's to the Elcan. Weight/balance is better, built in mounting system, takes less space on the 12 o'clock rail, and I never use 2x or 3x anyways and its faster to go up or down magnification. Illuminator has NV settings, and its built like a tank. Where are the cons? *My experiences based on USO SN4 1.5-6x DFP, Vortex Razor HD 1-6, Vortex PST 1-4x.* Typically cost was an issue, as well as the mounting levers from ARMS sometimes being a hassle, and the external mounting system being something that isn't always considered desirable. And there's also weight, bulk, and balance being up to individual taste. When pricing the others you listed, it seems that cost is about the same anymore. |
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Posted: 3/31/2020 6:01:20 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I still think a LPVO will be better. Why? |
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Posted: 3/31/2020 8:32:59 AM EDT
[#6]
Best is subjective to preferences. A DR is an excellent optic to pair with the 17. I prefer the 11/RMR combo, but if I hadn’t gone that route I probably would have went with another DR.
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Posted: 4/1/2020 6:21:36 PM EDT
[#7]
Quoted: I still think a LPVO will be better. I would like to see a new gen elcan with some improvments though. I dig the idea of them a lot. What LPVO would you recommend? Quoted: I have a 17” and a 13” 17S (waiting on 6.5CM for 20S): 17” is for mid range and/or stationary shooting. Equipped with Elcan 1.5-6x or EOTech Vudu 5-25x (will move to 20S when I get one). 13” is for short range and/or run & gun. Equipped with EOTech EXPS2-0 + G33 (removed when not needed). Swap in Pulsar Thermion XP50 when needed. I like to configure optics/gun to each use case. And that is what lead me to the Elcan. That I could do both the short range/run & gun + mid-range fairly well with a 1-4x and that BDC. I have enjoyed that ability with my ACSS reticle I have on it now. But want something a little nicer now. The EOTech + G33 is the other one I have been thinking about using, but then I would want a different optic for mid-range setup. So basically have to buy two. Quoted: I wnt from LPVO's to the Elcan. Weight/balance is better, built in mounting system, takes less space on the 12 o'clock rail, and I never use 2x or 3x anyways and its faster to go up or down magnification. Illuminator has NV settings, and its built like a tank. Where are the cons? *My experiences based on USO SN4 1.5-6x DFP, Vortex Razor HD 1-6, Vortex PST 1-4x.* @FrankW134, thanks for posting that. Your analysis is similar to what I came to conclude. The old con was the price when they were +$2000. But the price has come down quite a bit. |
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Posted: 4/1/2020 6:30:55 PM EDT
[#8]
Anyone know how far off the 7.62 SpectreDR BDC reticle be off for a 13" SCAR 17? What about the 5.56 SpectreDR BDC with a 10" SCAR 16?
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Posted: 4/1/2020 8:33:08 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What LPVO would you recommend? And that is what lead me to the Elcan. That I could do both the short range/run & gun + mid-range fairly well with a 1-4x and that BDC. I have enjoyed that ability with my ACSS reticle I have on it now. But want something a little nicer now. The EOTech + G33 is the other one I have been thinking about using, but then I would want a different optic for mid-range setup. So basically have to buy two. @FrankW134, thanks for posting that. Your analysis is similar to what I came to conclude. The old con was the price when they were +$2000. But the price has come down quite a bit. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I still think a LPVO will be better. I would like to see a new gen elcan with some improvments though. I dig the idea of them a lot. What LPVO would you recommend? Quoted: I have a 17” and a 13” 17S (waiting on 6.5CM for 20S): 17” is for mid range and/or stationary shooting. Equipped with Elcan 1.5-6x or EOTech Vudu 5-25x (will move to 20S when I get one). 13” is for short range and/or run & gun. Equipped with EOTech EXPS2-0 + G33 (removed when not needed). Swap in Pulsar Thermion XP50 when needed. I like to configure optics/gun to each use case. And that is what lead me to the Elcan. That I could do both the short range/run & gun + mid-range fairly well with a 1-4x and that BDC. I have enjoyed that ability with my ACSS reticle I have on it now. But want something a little nicer now. The EOTech + G33 is the other one I have been thinking about using, but then I would want a different optic for mid-range setup. So basically have to buy two. Quoted: I wnt from LPVO's to the Elcan. Weight/balance is better, built in mounting system, takes less space on the 12 o'clock rail, and I never use 2x or 3x anyways and its faster to go up or down magnification. Illuminator has NV settings, and its built like a tank. Where are the cons? *My experiences based on USO SN4 1.5-6x DFP, Vortex Razor HD 1-6, Vortex PST 1-4x.* @FrankW134, thanks for posting that. Your analysis is similar to what I came to conclude. The old con was the price when they were +$2000. But the price has come down quite a bit. Both of mine were under $1400, like new. 
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Posted: 4/2/2020 5:41:15 PM EDT
[#10]
For what its worth, I'm happy with the Elcan 1.5x/6x on my 17S. I've shot it out to 500m without issue. I do have to take my time at that range. I doubt 6x would be of much use to me past 600m. But that's my middle-aged eyes. I work with an ex Army sniper that has eagle eyes and can shoot iron sights out to 500m. He makes me sick.
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Posted: 4/7/2020 11:13:12 AM EDT
[#11]
Anyone able to speak how the Elcan BDC works with shorter barrels?
Quote HistoryNice. Good deal too. |
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Posted: 4/7/2020 2:48:09 PM EDT
[#12]
I would feel confident on trusting the BDC to 5 or 600m, especially for a combat application. Running M80, it looks like it's just ~70 FPS drop, and only 5 or 6 inches at 500m between a 16'' bbl and a 13'' (Based on this source). I did have my 1-4x 7.62 BDC Elcan on for a range trip, but I fucked up and zero'd it with my suppressor off, so I didn't end up taking to out to the 3/4/5/6/7/800m steel target range like I meant to.
However, I'm personally torn on optics for my 17; do I keep it light with a TA33 w/ 7.62 BDC, sacrificing a little magnification and FOV for light weight (the Scar feels so handy with the TA33 on), throw the Elcan back on and gain a little more magnification, a lot of FOV, and the ability to go from 1 to 4x, or just go LPVO with a Vortex Razor 1-6? Tough choices, but as it sits, I don't really intend to make my 13'' Scar 17 anything more than a nice light battle rifle making engagements out past 4 or 500m, but the ability to do so with a higher mag optic is definitely tempting. |
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Posted: 4/7/2020 4:29:28 PM EDT
[#13]
If I had a 13" Scar 17, I would seriously consider the Elcan 1x/4x. But I understand the desire to keep the weight down. That's the one negative thing I dislike about my Elcan 1.5x/6x on my 17S.
I'm actually considering the 1x/4x for a Tavor 7, but hate the ideal of adding 21.87oz (1.37 pounds) 
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Posted: 4/7/2020 4:33:48 PM EDT
[#14]
Elcan would be near the bottom of the list of things I’d want on a scar 17. They are heavy, short eye relief, and mount is lame.
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Posted: 4/7/2020 4:38:11 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Anyone able to speak how the Elcan BDC works with shorter barrels? Nice. Good deal too. Quote HistoryQuoted: Anyone able to speak how the Elcan BDC works with shorter barrels? Nice. Good deal too. Next time I can get out past 300 Ill do a write up with M855. Can't find any ranges, private or public to shoot at right now. |
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Posted: 4/7/2020 4:44:53 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Elcan would be near the bottom of the list of things I’d want on a scar 17. They are heavy, short eye relief, and mount is lame. I agree on the weight, and that they should replace the ARMS Mount with an ADM or something more modern, but the 2.75" eye relief is not really all that short. |
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Posted: 4/7/2020 5:03:34 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I agree on the weight, and that they should replace the ARMS Mount with an ADM or something more modern, but the 2.75" eye relief is not really all that short. I think the only downside with the Elcan for the Scar is the weight. The eye relief seems to be a non-issue on it, and I don’t really get the hate for the ARMS mount outside of being non-adjustable, however I haven’t found a rail it won’t lock securely to. |
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Posted: 4/7/2020 5:03:45 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I agree on the weight, and that they should replace the ARMS Mount with an ADM or something more modern, but the 2.75" eye relief is not really all that short. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Elcan would be near the bottom of the list of things I’d want on a scar 17. They are heavy, short eye relief, and mount is lame. I agree on the weight, and that they should replace the ARMS Mount with an ADM or something more modern, but the 2.75" eye relief is not really all that short. There are only one or two “top tier” LPVOs that can beat it in the weight department when you factor in a quality mount. They’re honestly not all that heavy. |
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Posted: 4/7/2020 5:04:22 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I think the only downside with the Elcan for the Scar is the weight. The eye relief is a non-issue on it, and I don’t really get the hate for the ARMS mount outside of being non-adjustable, and I have t found a rail it won’t lock securely to. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I agree on the weight, and that they should replace the ARMS Mount with an ADM or something more modern, but the 2.75" eye relief is not really all that short. I think the only downside with the Elcan for the Scar is the weight. The eye relief is a non-issue on it, and I don’t really get the hate for the ARMS mount outside of being non-adjustable, and I have t found a rail it won’t lock securely to. And the Mk2 levers are adjustable and can be installed in minutes. |
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Posted: 4/7/2020 5:10:58 PM EDT
[#20]
I'm not familiar with Mk2 levers, but would definitely agree that people often forget to factor in the added weight of a mount when mentioning the weight of an LPVO.
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Posted: 4/7/2020 7:26:06 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And the Mk2 levers are adjustable and can be installed in minutes. I added the MKII levers on mine, it did help switching rifle to rifle and slight rail variations. I have a 5.56 calibrated SpecterDR and will be putting it on a scar 17 in the near future and look forward to getting some groups with the different range settings and back figuring where they actually zero at on my 7.62 rifle. |
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Posted: 4/7/2020 8:41:03 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There are only one or two “top tier” LPVOs that can beat it in the weight department when you factor in a quality mount. They’re honestly not all that heavy. This, I don’t understand why people always say LPVO are lighter. I guess they have never owned or actually looked at the specs I can’t think of anything else I would want on my 13” scar 17 than my elcan. Pic 
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Posted: 4/8/2020 10:45:25 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This, I don’t understand why people always say LPVO are lighter. I guess they have never owned or actually looked at the specs I can’t think of anything else I would want on my 13” scar 17 than my elcan. Pic https://i.imgur.com/haawljK.jpg Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: There are only one or two “top tier” LPVOs that can beat it in the weight department when you factor in a quality mount. They’re honestly not all that heavy. This, I don’t understand why people always say LPVO are lighter. I guess they have never owned or actually looked at the specs I can’t think of anything else I would want on my 13” scar 17 than my elcan. Pic https://i.imgur.com/haawljK.jpg Any time the Elcan comes up, people invariably say it’s heavy. There are really only a couple higher-end LPVOs that come out lighter, to get there they usually all rely on using a Scalarworks mount, and even then it’s by a low couple ounces. I can only assume people that say this are either looking for a reason to not like it, regurgitating something they overheard in a bar once, or aren’t factoring in that comparing just an optic to an optic/mount combo isn’t an apples to apples comparison. There are reasons to not like the DR, but weight isn’t one of them. ETA: I just looked it up. An NX8 in a Scalarworks is about the lightest ‘duty’ optic/mount combo you can have. Together they weigh 22.5 oz. An Elcan DR weighs 23.8 oz. A whopping 1.3 oz heavier. |
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Posted: 4/9/2020 2:10:27 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Any time the Elcan comes up, people invariably say it’s heavy. There are really only a couple higher-end LPVOs that come out lighter, to get there they usually all rely on using a Scalarworks mount, and even then it’s by a low couple ounces. I can only assume people that say this are either looking for a reason to not like it, regurgitating something they overheard in a bar once, or aren’t factoring in that comparing just an optic to an optic/mount combo isn’t an apples to apples comparison. There are reasons to not like the DR, but weight isn’t one of them. ETA: I just looked it up. An NX8 in a Scalarworks is about the lightest ‘duty’ optic/mount combo you can have. Together they weigh 22.5 oz. An Elcan DR weighs 23.8 oz. A whopping 1.3 oz heavier. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: There are only one or two “top tier” LPVOs that can beat it in the weight department when you factor in a quality mount. They’re honestly not all that heavy. This, I don’t understand why people always say LPVO are lighter. I guess they have never owned or actually looked at the specs I can’t think of anything else I would want on my 13” scar 17 than my elcan. Pic https://i.imgur.com/haawljK.jpg Any time the Elcan comes up, people invariably say it’s heavy. There are really only a couple higher-end LPVOs that come out lighter, to get there they usually all rely on using a Scalarworks mount, and even then it’s by a low couple ounces. I can only assume people that say this are either looking for a reason to not like it, regurgitating something they overheard in a bar once, or aren’t factoring in that comparing just an optic to an optic/mount combo isn’t an apples to apples comparison. There are reasons to not like the DR, but weight isn’t one of them. ETA: I just looked it up. An NX8 in a Scalarworks is about the lightest ‘duty’ optic/mount combo you can have. Together they weigh 22.5 oz. An Elcan DR weighs 23.8 oz. A whopping 1.3 oz heavier. Having used a lot of the “top level” LPVOs, the Elcan will end up being damn near the lightest and will beat most others in a lot of categories aside from top end magnification. It’s still one of my favorite LPVOs, and if they’d update to a 1x/6x (which I know they’ve already done, but it never made it to market) or 1x/8x I’d be all in. |
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Posted: 4/9/2020 9:43:47 AM EDT
[#25]
I was always curios as to why they did a 1.5x/6x instead of a 1x/6x. I assumed the 1x was just too difficult for some technical reason.
I agree that a 1x/8x would be a nice option. With my eyes, 6x only helps me see an 18" target clearly out to about 500m. |
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Posted: 4/9/2020 1:31:03 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Having used a lot of the “top level” LPVOs, the Elcan will end up being damn near the lightest and will beat most others in a lot of categories aside from top end magnification. It’s still one of my favorite LPVOs, and if they’d update to a 1x/6x (which I know they’ve already done, but it never made it to market) or 1x/8x I’d be all in. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: There are only one or two “top tier” LPVOs that can beat it in the weight department when you factor in a quality mount. They’re honestly not all that heavy. This, I don’t understand why people always say LPVO are lighter. I guess they have never owned or actually looked at the specs I can’t think of anything else I would want on my 13” scar 17 than my elcan. Pic https://i.imgur.com/haawljK.jpg Any time the Elcan comes up, people invariably say it’s heavy. There are really only a couple higher-end LPVOs that come out lighter, to get there they usually all rely on using a Scalarworks mount, and even then it’s by a low couple ounces. I can only assume people that say this are either looking for a reason to not like it, regurgitating something they overheard in a bar once, or aren’t factoring in that comparing just an optic to an optic/mount combo isn’t an apples to apples comparison. There are reasons to not like the DR, but weight isn’t one of them. ETA: I just looked it up. An NX8 in a Scalarworks is about the lightest ‘duty’ optic/mount combo you can have. Together they weigh 22.5 oz. An Elcan DR weighs 23.8 oz. A whopping 1.3 oz heavier. Having used a lot of the “top level” LPVOs, the Elcan will end up being damn near the lightest and will beat most others in a lot of categories aside from top end magnification. It’s still one of my favorite LPVOs, and if they’d update to a 1x/6x (which I know they’ve already done, but it never made it to market) or 1x/8x I’d be all in. I’d be all over that. Just a 1/6 would be plenty for me. I definitely wish they’d update it, and it’s definitely due for one by now. 1/4 was with its peers at the time, but it’s not aging well. They must be unhappy with their sales numbers or they wouldn’t have dropped the price, but I think this would solve a good chunk of those sales numbers. |
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Posted: 4/9/2020 1:35:30 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I was always curios as to why they did a 1.5x/6x instead of a 1x/6x. I assumed the 1x was just too difficult for some technical reason. I agree that a 1x/8x would be a nice option. With my eyes, 6x only helps me see an 18" target clearly out to about 500m. At the time a 4X (1-4, 1.5-6) multiplication factor was about what the market was able to do without being overly cost/size prohibitive. But optics have advanced light years in the interim, and these days even a 6X factor is getting behind the times. 8X is becoming the norm, and even 10X now. I don’t know that I want an optic that only does 1X/10X though. I think a FFP LPVO like the new Razor would be ideal for that given it’s usable anywhere in between. If I could only choose two magnifications, at least for a general purpose non-precision rifle, a 1/6 is about ideal. It’d also help Elcan save cost, weight, and size, which I’d consider more important factors on a fighting rifle than +6X magnification. |
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Posted: 4/11/2020 10:24:45 PM EDT
[#28]
Love my 5.56!
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Posted: 4/12/2020 8:13:17 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryCan we turn this into a elcan pic thread to trigger the haters?? Hell yes we can! 
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Posted: 4/13/2020 5:02:47 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Can we turn this into a elcan pic thread to trigger the haters?? Hell yes we can! https://i.imgur.com/XhMIZOd.jpg This is amazing. Nice setups! |
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Posted: 4/14/2020 12:24:27 PM EDT
[#31]
Quoted: I would feel confident on trusting the BDC to 5 or 600m, especially for a combat application. Running M80, it looks like it's just ~70 FPS drop, and only 5 or 6 inches at 500m between a 16'' bbl and a 13'' (Based on this source). I did have my 1-4x 7.62 BDC Elcan on for a range trip, but I fucked up and zero'd it with my suppressor off, so I didn't end up taking to out to the 3/4/5/6/7/800m steel target range like I meant to. However, I'm personally torn on optics for my 17; do I keep it light with a TA33 w/ 7.62 BDC, sacrificing a little magnification and FOV for light weight (the Scar feels so handy with the TA33 on), throw the Elcan back on and gain a little more magnification, a lot of FOV, and the ability to go from 1 to 4x, or just go LPVO with a Vortex Razor 1-6? Tough choices, but as it sits, I don't really intend to make my 13'' Scar 17 anything more than a nice light battle rifle making engagements out past 4 or 500m, but the ability to do so with a higher mag optic is definitely tempting. Yeah, as long as the BDC for M80 is good out to 500-600 meters for a combat hit, that is all I would care about. Seems like the BDC should line up close enough for the 13" barrel. I had thought about an ACOG with 7.62 BDC + RMR for CQB. But by that time, I am at the same cost and the same weight (if not more) as a 1-4x Elcan. Plus the 7.62 ACOG is a big on the bulky side with an RMR. Quoted: If I had a 13" Scar 17, I would seriously consider the Elcan 1x/4x. But I understand the desire to keep the weight down. That's the one negative thing I dislike about my Elcan 1.5x/6x on my 17S. I'm actually considering the 1x/4x for a Tavor 7, but hate the ideal of adding 21.87oz (1.37 pounds) I think the weight of the Elcan isn't too bad considering everything (like the mount weight being included). For what it offers, it isn't significantly heavier than other options. Quoted: Elcan would be near the bottom of the list of things I’d want on a scar 17. They are heavy, short eye relief, and mount is lame. The eye relief on the 1-4x isn't bad and the weight isn't bad when you compare it to similar setups. What optic would you go with over the Elcan for a SCAR @para13cord? |
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Posted: 4/14/2020 12:29:18 PM EDT
[#32]
Quoted: I think the only downside with the Elcan for the Scar is the weight. The eye relief seems to be a non-issue on it, and I don’t really get the hate for the ARMS mount outside of being non-adjustable, however I haven’t found a rail it won’t lock securely to. I don't mind the weight. Comparing it to a Vortex Razor or similar + mount, I am at about the same weight. Or comparing it to a EOTech + G33 + mounts, I am also around the same weight. Quoted: I added the MKII levers on mine, it did help switching rifle to rifle and slight rail variations. I have a 5.56 calibrated SpecterDR and will be putting it on a scar 17 in the near future and look forward to getting some groups with the different range settings and back figuring where they actually zero at on my 7.62 rifle. With the MKII levers, do you still need to zip-tie them down to secure them? Or are the MkII mounts more secure? Quoted: This, I don’t understand why people always say LPVO are lighter. I guess they have never owned or actually looked at the specs I can’t think of anything else I would want on my 13” scar 17 than my elcan. Pic https://i.imgur.com/haawljK.jpg Yeah, I am having a hard time picking something besides the Elcan. Been considering an EOTech + G33 as well as something like Vortex Razor, but think the Elcan is the better fit for me. |
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Posted: 4/14/2020 12:45:46 PM EDT
[#33]
My p4xi in an ADM mount is a couple oz heavier than the elcan at 25oz. My vortex pst g2 1-6x weighs the same as the elcan without a mount!
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Posted: 4/14/2020 12:47:33 PM EDT
[#34]
Quoted: Any time the Elcan comes up, people invariably say it’s heavy. There are really only a couple higher-end LPVOs that come out lighter, to get there they usually all rely on using a Scalarworks mount, and even then it’s by a low couple ounces. I can only assume people that say this are either looking for a reason to not like it, regurgitating something they overheard in a bar once, or aren’t factoring in that comparing just an optic to an optic/mount combo isn’t an apples to apples comparison. There are reasons to not like the DR, but weight isn’t one of them. ETA: I just looked it up. An NX8 in a Scalarworks is about the lightest ‘duty’ optic/mount combo you can have. Together they weigh 22.5 oz. An Elcan DR weighs 23.8 oz. A whopping 1.3 oz heavier. What LPVO options are there that have a NV setting? Also, that have a combat BDC for quick shots as well as quick ranging? I know of PA ACSS line has the combat BDC down, but doesn't have NV setting. Anyone know of another option? For my SCAR 16, the 1-4 Elcan will be perfect for the distances it will be used for. Just for the 17, I wonder if I might wish I had a little more than just a 4x for the top end..... Quoted: At the time a 4X (1-4, 1.5-6) multiplication factor was about what the market was able to do without being overly cost/size prohibitive. But optics have advanced light years in the interim, and these days even a 6X factor is getting behind the times. 8X is becoming the norm, and even 10X now. I don’t know that I want an optic that only does 1X/10X though. I think a FFP LPVO like the new Razor would be ideal for that given it’s usable anywhere in between. If I could only choose two magnifications, at least for a general purpose non-precision rifle, a 1/6 is about ideal. It’d also help Elcan save cost, weight, and size, which I’d consider more important factors on a fighting rifle than +6X magnification. I would agree, a 7.62x51 1-6x Elcan would be perfect. Only reason I am hesitant to pull the trigger on the Elcan right now, is the 4x. It might be just fine, but really wish I had a 6x for what I would want, being able to take it out to 600-650 yards and hit man size steel targets. Not using my 17 as a precision shooter, so don't want a complicated LPVO with mil/MOA and a busy reticle. Quoted: Having used a lot of the “top level” LPVOs, the Elcan will end up being damn near the lightest and will beat most others in a lot of categories aside from top end magnification. It’s still one of my favorite LPVOs, and if they’d update to a 1x/6x (which I know they’ve already done, but it never made it to market) or 1x/8x I’d be all in. Which of the LPVO would you recommend as an alternative to a 1-4x Elcan? |
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Posted: 4/14/2020 12:50:08 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Anyone able to speak how the Elcan BDC works with shorter barrels? Nice. Good deal too. I figure it won't perfectly line up with 556 or 762 reticles, so I'd get what's cheapest and use strelok app to find how it lines up with your reticle, and just use those holds. |
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Posted: 4/14/2020 3:33:51 PM EDT
[#36]
The 1x/4x BDC reticle (7.62) is calibrated to 147g NATO with 20" barrel.
The 1.5x/6x BDC reticle (7.62) is blended: 147g NATO and 168g Match with 20” barrel. |
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Posted: 4/14/2020 5:28:10 PM EDT
[#37]
Quoted: No experience, but the 762 reticle is calibrated for m80 out of a 20" barrel, so at 13", the difference may be noticable. I figure it won't perfectly line up with 556 or 762 reticles, so I'd get what's cheapest and use strelok app to find how it lines up with your reticle, and just use those holds. Quoted: The 1x/4x BDC reticle (7.62) is calibrated to 147g NATO with 20" barrel. The 1.5x/6x BDC reticle (7.62) is blended: 147g NATO and 168g Match with 20” barrel. Thank guys, I didn't realize the BDC reticle was calibrated for 20". I don't have any muzzle velocity numbers for a 20" vs. 13" factory SCAR barrel. But looking on online data, it looks like 22-23 change ft/sec per inch. So, I'm probably losing around 150-160 fps muzzle velocity with the 13" compared to the 20". Maybe a little less based on the data billytehbob posted from snipershide which shows loss around 70-80 fps. I'll have to find a ballistics calculator and play with it for the two barrel lengths to see how big of a change it is. |
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Posted: 4/15/2020 10:08:45 AM EDT
[#38]
I wouldn't try too hard to get it perfect. As I'm sure you already know, a BDC reticle will only get you about 90-95% there, as you have to factor in barrel twist, ammo, elevation, humidity, etc.
I've used my 1.5x/6x on my Scar 17 from 100m-500m. After sight in at 100m, it shoots a tad low using the 500m BDC mark. I assume this is due to the slower 1:12 twist and/or my ability to see well at 500m with a 6x. I still like using a quality BDC scope on a .308 MBR due to simplicity and speed. |
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Posted: 4/15/2020 5:23:55 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I wouldn't try too hard to get it perfect. As I'm sure you already know, a BDC reticle will only get you about 90-95% there, as you have to factor in barrel twist, ammo, elevation, humidity, etc. I've used my 1.5x/6x on my Scar 17 from 100m-500m. After sight in at 100m, it shoots a tad low using the 500m BDC mark. I assume this is due to the slower 1:12 twist and/or my ability to see well at 500m with a 6x. I still like using a quality BDC scope on a .308 MBR due to simplicity and speed. The BDC will definitely not line up, but 90% of that is out at the further edge of the BDC. By zeroing 1-2” high one can usually get within 1-2 MOA out to reasonable distances with most setups. |
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Posted: 4/15/2020 5:28:17 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Thank guys, I didn't realize the BDC reticle was calibrated for 20". I don't have any muzzle velocity numbers for a 20" vs. 13" factory SCAR barrel. But looking on online data, it looks like 22-23 change ft/sec per inch. So, I'm probably losing around 150-160 fps muzzle velocity with the 13" compared to the 20". Maybe a little less based on the data billytehbob posted from snipershide which shows loss around 70-80 fps. I'll have to find a ballistics calculator and play with it for the two barrel lengths to see how big of a change it is. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: No experience, but the 762 reticle is calibrated for m80 out of a 20" barrel, so at 13", the difference may be noticable. I figure it won't perfectly line up with 556 or 762 reticles, so I'd get what's cheapest and use strelok app to find how it lines up with your reticle, and just use those holds. Quoted: The 1x/4x BDC reticle (7.62) is calibrated to 147g NATO with 20" barrel. The 1.5x/6x BDC reticle (7.62) is blended: 147g NATO and 168g Match with 20” barrel. Thank guys, I didn't realize the BDC reticle was calibrated for 20". I don't have any muzzle velocity numbers for a 20" vs. 13" factory SCAR barrel. But looking on online data, it looks like 22-23 change ft/sec per inch. So, I'm probably losing around 150-160 fps muzzle velocity with the 13" compared to the 20". Maybe a little less based on the data billytehbob posted from snipershide which shows loss around 70-80 fps. I'll have to find a ballistics calculator and play with it for the two barrel lengths to see how big of a change it is. My 17 has a 3.5X ACOG. Due to the clarity of glass, I’ve been able to shoot it for groups fine, though that’s obviously not what the rifle or optic are for. I wouldn’t feel hindered by the 4X upper limit of the 1/4 DR on a 17, though obviously I’d rather have a higher end and would consider 6X an improvement. This comes down to what role one expects the rifle to fill, and a 1/4 would compliment what I feel the ideal role of a 17 is, a general purpose compact battle rifle with above average accuracy. There are optics better suited to precision at range, but there are better rifles to marry them to as well. My OBR and MWS fulfill that role for me (since we are in the FN forum, the SCAR 20 would as well), and the 17 with something like an 11 or DR is a match made in heaven. |
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Posted: 4/24/2020 7:52:50 PM EDT
[#41]
After a careful review of the Elcan, I took a different direction with my SCAR 17 optics. After talking to the Leupold tech guys, I bought a Mark 4 MR/T 1.5-5x20mm with the illuminated circle dot reticle. Currently using a Larue mount.
I'm getting a little older and find the circle dot gives me faster target acquisition. If you give Leupold your serial number they will make you one ballistic cam for free. Have been running that setup for three years (more or less) and have had no problems. I find the SCAR 17 a little heavy for my taste and the Mark 4 does cut the weight. Now this scope is discontinued but you can still find them if you look. I checked my invoice from Optics Planet and I paid $750. It comes standard with a 62gr 5.56 cam so I can swap it around as needed. Just as an FYI, I have to confess that an LMT 7.62mm MWS has now arrived and we'll see this summer if the SCAR gets an early retirement. I was impressed with the British L129 rifle and have been hearing good things from a couple of Brits that I used to work with. |
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Posted: 4/24/2020 9:22:43 PM EDT
[#42]
 Well, after doing a lot of reading I decided that the Elcan was the right optic for my SCAR 17. Especially since I am running it as a battle rifle. If I was going to do a DMR role, I would do a LPVO. But there are better guns for a DMR role . Elcan is lighter than I was expecting and the glass is fantastic. |
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Posted: 4/24/2020 9:33:34 PM EDT
[#43]
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Posted: 4/24/2020 10:22:20 PM EDT
[#44]
Issued an Elcan? Sure. Buy with my own wallet? HELL no. There are FAR better options out there.
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Posted: 4/24/2020 11:43:05 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Issued an Elcan? Sure. Buy with my own wallet? HELL no. There are FAR better options out there. And they are? 
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Posted: 4/25/2020 10:18:29 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I find the SCAR 17 a little heavy for my taste Providing that the Scar 17 is about as light as it gets for a .308 carbine, I'm a little confused by your comment...??? |
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Posted: 4/25/2020 10:23:12 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well, after doing a lot of reading I decided that the Elcan was the right optic for my SCAR 17. I agree, with my eyes, I felt that the 1.5x/6x model was a better fit. After 2yrs, I still have no regrets. |
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Posted: 4/25/2020 12:43:26 PM EDT
[#48]
Quoted: My 17 has a 3.5X ACOG. Due to the clarity of glass, I’ve been able to shoot it for groups fine, though that’s obviously not what the rifle or optic are for. I wouldn’t feel hindered by the 4X upper limit of the 1/4 DR on a 17, though obviously I’d rather have a higher end and would consider 6X an improvement. This comes down to what role one expects the rifle to fill, and a 1/4 would compliment what I feel the ideal role of a 17 is, a general purpose compact battle rifle with above average accuracy. There are optics better suited to precision at range, but there are better rifles to marry them to as well. My OBR and MWS fulfill that role for me (since we are in the FN forum, the SCAR 20 would as well), and the 17 with something like an 11 or DR is a match made in heaven. Thanks for your post. Yes, my role for my 17 is a general purpose compact battle rifle. For when I want something more than a 5.56. Like you mentioned, the clarity of the Elcan glass + BDC should get me out to that 500-600m range that would be the furthest I would use it for. Most of my shooting will be <300m, so for the 95% of my shooting the 4x will be plenty. Quoted: I agree, with my eyes, I felt that the 1.5x/6x model was a better fit. After 2yrs, I still have no regrets. I had considered the 1.5x/6x model and then running a RMR for 1x use. But after thinking about it, I wanted a true 1x and didn't want to have to run a second optic on it, and wanted the better eye relief and field of view of the 1/4x. But I am sure that 6x is great as well. Can't go wrong with an Elcan if it is an option. |
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Posted: 4/25/2020 12:47:59 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And they are? |
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Posted: 4/25/2020 1:11:33 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I added the MKII levers on mine, it did help switching rifle to rifle and slight rail variations. Quote HistoryQuoted: I added the MKII levers on mine, it did help switching rifle to rifle and slight rail variations. @JKH62 and others, are the MkII levers a must have upgrade? My Elcan locks up tight on my gun. I won't be running it on a second gun, just on my 17. Quoted: Elcan would be near the bottom of the list of things I’d want on a scar 17. They are heavy, short eye relief, and mount is lame. Quoted: I still think a LPVO will be better. I would like to see a new gen elcan with some improvments though. I dig the idea of them a lot. Quoted: Issued an Elcan? Sure. Buy with my own wallet? HELL no. There are FAR better options out there. @para13cord @The_Sugar_Weasel @Blackwind So what LPVO would you guys recommend over an Elcan for a non-DMR/SASS setup that is meant to be run as a battle rifle? |
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