User Panel
Posted: 2/8/2023 9:49:01 PM EDT
There is a debate on another forum about this. Ignoring the fact that most businesses don't want people transacting anything on their property that conflicts with their primary business. No FFL involved in the transaction, and FTF transaction in the state is perfectly legal.
Is there anything illegal about two law-abiding people who meet in an FFL's parking lot to sell or trade a gun with each other in the parking lot? |
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“The difference between treason and patriotism is only a matter of dates.”
"And how can man die better Than facing fearful odds, For the ashes of his fathers, And the temples of his Gods." |
[#1]
No.
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07/02 manufacturer and dealer. I believe we should all be heavily armed, let me help you get there!
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[#2]
Originally Posted By vengarr: No. View Quote In the specific situation being discussed, the FFL suggested that the ATF IOI was currently on site (inside) for an inspection and the FFL manager shoo'ed away the people in the parking lot, threatening to have the ATF come outside if they didn't leave. |
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“The difference between treason and patriotism is only a matter of dates.”
"And how can man die better Than facing fearful odds, For the ashes of his fathers, And the temples of his Gods." |
[#3]
Originally Posted By jtb33: Thanks. Wasn't sure - but no one who actually holds an FFL has chimed in on the topic yet, so was hoping to hear from an FFL. In the specific situation being discussed, the FFL suggested that the ATF IOI was currently on site (inside) for an inspection and the FFL manager shoo'ed away the people in the parking lot, threatening to have the ATF come outside if they didn't leave. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By jtb33: Originally Posted By vengarr: No. In the specific situation being discussed, the FFL suggested that the ATF IOI was currently on site (inside) for an inspection and the FFL manager shoo'ed away the people in the parking lot, threatening to have the ATF come outside if they didn't leave. I'm an ffl and sot. Lol |
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07/02 manufacturer and dealer. I believe we should all be heavily armed, let me help you get there!
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[#4]
I'm a home-based FFL and the answer is no. If you chose to do it behind my back I might consider trespassing you from my property but it certainly isn't illegal to meet in a public parking lot and conduct a private sale.
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[#5]
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'The horse is made ready for battle, but victory rests with the LORD' - Proverbs 21:31
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[#6]
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07/02 manufacturer and dealer. I believe we should all be heavily armed, let me help you get there!
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[#7]
No. A gun store parking lot is my favorite place to do a FTF.
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It's not adventure until something goes wrong.
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[#8]
don’t listen to rogan’s guest today. she started out gasping she was able to by an ak in FTF transaction.
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[#9]
If I'm selling a gun I do the transactions in the local police department parking lot. Perfectly legal here for individuals to sell private party.
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[#10]
And by that you mean a straw purchase?
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[#11]
Freedom is scary yo
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[#12]
Originally Posted By its2234me: Freedom is scary yo View Quote You're in a tech forum. Further, your remark is not what's being discussed here, but I'm sure GD would love to discuss who's rights are paramount here: the property owner's right to kick whomever he wants off his property, or the two people doing a legal transaction on someone else's property. |
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“The difference between treason and patriotism is only a matter of dates.”
"And how can man die better Than facing fearful odds, For the ashes of his fathers, And the temples of his Gods." |
[#13]
This thread?
Arizona Snitching.org Posted link for info/ story. Click and participate at your own risk. After everyone who has gone to prison from that group, post at your own risk. I have to wonder if the guy running it doesn't just do it to be a honeypot for the feds. |
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If you are putting a lot of effort into arguing with me, you are probably really just wasting your time, sorry.
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[Last Edit: ArizonaRifleman]
[#14]
Originally Posted By zentradi: This thread? Arizona Snitching.org Posted link for info/ story. Click and participate at your own risk. After everyone who has gone to prison from that group, post at your own risk. I have to wonder if the guy running it doesn't just do it to be a honeypot for the feds. View Quote Wait, are you saying that the people that are members of that forum have gone to prison before, and accusing the owner admin of that site of being a possible fed honeypot? By the way, I have met the OP before in person. Stand up guy and highly doubt what you're perceiving him to be. Check his user title under his screen name. |
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The tacticool crowd are the fudds of the outdoors. There I said it. -Geralt55
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[#15]
Originally Posted By zentradi: This thread? Arizona Snitching.org Posted link for info/ story. Click and participate at your own risk. After everyone who has gone to prison from that group, post at your own risk. I have to wonder if the guy running it doesn't just do it to be a honeypot for the feds. View Quote Please explain |
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[#16]
nothing illegal about it. I've done the exact same thing. We met at a range, test fired all the guns, then did the trade in the parking lot.
Now the business owner likely won't "condone it" so they don't accept any liability in the transaction, ie robbery or a shooting. also may be highly suspicious to the ffl if someone comes in and buys something/transfers, and then sells/trades it right afterwards in the lot. especially if the FFL is made aware of what's is happening, but generally what happens after the person/gun leaves the store, is their own business. I've been advocating that FFLs don't participate in private sales, voluntarily. If its not required by law, why accept any liability for a 4473? Doesn't make sense to me. The more people "get used to it" the more likely they are to support/not oppose it when it becomes law. Oh, we already do that. No big deal. Pass. Private sales need to remain private. |
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www.newnanarmscompany.com
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[#17]
Originally Posted By zentradi: This thread? Arizona Snitching.org Posted link for info/ story. Click and participate at your own risk. After everyone who has gone to prison from that group, post at your own risk. I have to wonder if the guy running it doesn't just do it to be a honeypot for the feds. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By zentradi: This thread? Arizona Snitching.org Posted link for info/ story. Click and participate at your own risk. After everyone who has gone to prison from that group, post at your own risk. I have to wonder if the guy running it doesn't just do it to be a honeypot for the feds. No idea what he's referring to - but he's certainly got a hard-on for me and for the site and I have no idea why. My guess is this guy was banned under some other username, or had some other interaction/experience that didn't go his way and has some vendetta. Or just simple trolling, perhaps? Who knows. Happens on all forums occasionally. I've no idea if there are members on the AZS forum who have gone to prison; never asked and frankly, I don't care. For that matter, I have no idea if there are members on these forums who have gone to prison either and I would imagine that the operators of this site likewise don't ask and don't care. Are you somehow suggesting that those who operate firearm-related forums should vet anonymous people who sign up to post, vet if they have gone to prison? What other questions do you feel that site operators should ask anonymous users who register on internet forums? And you're accusing me of running a 'honeypot for the feds'? I'm not the one glowing here. Originally Posted By TobyLazur: Please explain I'd be curious to hear an explanation as well. So far, the only thing I've seen is him following me around on various firearm forums spouting random stuff like that. No idea why he's been doing that or what precipitated it. However, I suggest he recognize that this is a tech forum. If that user would like to clarify his beef or issue, the Pit is no longer here, but feel free to message me, I suppose. Returning to the topic at hand, it's has been answered appropriately; appreciate the confirmation from the FFL holders. Seems like the discussion there is whether the shop overreacted, or some misunderstanding of the situation. |
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“The difference between treason and patriotism is only a matter of dates.”
"And how can man die better Than facing fearful odds, For the ashes of his fathers, And the temples of his Gods." |
[#18]
Originally Posted By IHTFP08: nothing illegal about it. I've done the exact same thing. We met at a range, test fired all the guns, then did the trade in the parking lot. Now the business owner likely won't "condone it" so they don't accept any liability in the transaction, ie robbery or a shooting. also may be highly suspicious to the ffl if someone comes in and buys something/transfers, and then sells/trades it right afterwards in the lot. especially if the FFL is made aware of what's is happening, but generally what happens after the person/gun leaves the store, is their own business. I've been advocating that FFLs don't participate in private sales, voluntarily. If its not required by law, why accept any liability for a 4473? Doesn't make sense to me. The more people "get used to it" the more likely they are to support/not oppose it when it becomes law. Oh, we already do that. No big deal. Pass. Private sales need to remain private. View Quote Hot take but I see your point. What's a $20 transfer fee against a $100k lawsuit against your shop? I guess every transfer is an opportunity for a straw purchase (followed by a suicide or etc), and you and your insurance company need to decide if that risk is worth $20. |
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[#19]
I can't imagine that all FFL's have insurance related to the business, but for those FFL's that run out of a traditional storefront like the one in question, I'd imagine it's probably the standard to have insurance. Do insurance policies for FFL's have a lot of stipulations that may cover situations like these? Further, I wonder if lease agreements with landlords also cover situations like this.
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“The difference between treason and patriotism is only a matter of dates.”
"And how can man die better Than facing fearful odds, For the ashes of his fathers, And the temples of his Gods." |
[#20]
I bought a new handgun and asked LGS owner if he knew anyone interested in my prior handgun.
He contacted a guy and we later met at the LGS parking to do FTF. LGS knew all about it, didn't care. |
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[#21]
Originally Posted By ctfish15: Hot take but I see your point. What's a $20 transfer fee against a $100k lawsuit against your shop? I guess every transfer is an opportunity for a straw purchase (followed by a suicide or etc), and you and your insurance company need to decide if that risk is worth $20. View Quote Thats what I mean. Why be involved in a private sale, have a mistake on your paperwork, or hell maybe even the NICS check was wrong, DL/CWP not valid? When the law doesn't require it? Doesn't seem worth the risk. But more important to me, is keeping private sales private. Normalizing private sales with FFL/background check and paperwork is not something I want to do or facilitate. I would be perfectly happy removing the laws that require FFLs altogether. |
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www.newnanarmscompany.com
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