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Posted: 9/15/2020 3:27:40 PM EDT
[#1]
You could make an excellent e-trigger but the ATF has outlawed innovation in firearms design.
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Posted: 9/15/2020 3:32:09 PM EDT
[#2]
My Tavor has a great trigger.
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Posted: 9/15/2020 3:44:41 PM EDT
[#3]
Mdrx has a great trigger stock and the aug after the 2020 sear upgrade 100$ is great as well
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Posted: 9/15/2020 3:51:07 PM EDT
[#4]
The RatWorx/2020 MSAR/AUG trigger is a very nice trigger.
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Posted: 9/15/2020 3:55:23 PM EDT
[#5]
The k&m bullpup has a fantastic trigger.
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Posted: 9/15/2020 3:55:24 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My Tavor has a great trigger. As does mine. Geissele Super Sabra trigger pack and Super Sabra Lightning Bow Trigger is an excellent combination. Cost me $450 not a billion dollars. 
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Posted: 9/15/2020 4:53:01 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The RatWorx/2020 MSAR/AUG trigger is a very nice trigger. I had the Ratworx and I remember it being profoundly worse than a stock AR trigger.... The fact that there was about a foot of linkage between my finger and the mechanism was still very apparent.... |
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Posted: 9/15/2020 6:12:03 PM EDT
[#8]
Quoted: Not a practical discussion, but suppose the .gov paid some engineering firm $1 Billion (or whatever inordinate sum you want to imagine) to develop a bullpup rifle that is at least as reliable as an AR-15, and has as good of a trigger pull as a Geissele. You think they could pull it off? For the sake of discussion, assume that the can build the platform on an existing bullpup like a Tavor or something. I'd really like to try one of these.. their trigger is like a 1911 with some advanced linkage crap. they seem proud of it. https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2019/04/04/fims-firerms-straight-pull-308-bullpup-rifle/ 
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Posted: 9/15/2020 7:56:09 PM EDT
[#9]
Actually, the Keltec RDB has a pretty decent trigger...
I doubt that Uncle paid them anything...  Forrest |
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Posted: 9/15/2020 8:13:52 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: As does mine. Geissele Super Sabra trigger pack and Super Sabra Lightning Bow Trigger is an excellent combination. Cost me $450 not a billion dollars. I did the Tavor X95 with a Geissele Lightning bow + Shootingsight trigger pack. It's still a little heavy, but it's nice. I added 2 shims on each side of the trigger to keep the movement to a minimum. I love Shootingsight because as a company they are the underdog. I have their CZ Scorpion trigger group that is absolutely amazing. I also added the Jard MDR aftermarket trigger pack. This thing is absurdly tits on my MDRX. Pretty much makes it feel like the crispest AR15 2-stage trigger available. |
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Posted: 9/16/2020 12:03:27 AM EDT
[#11]
The Tavor with the Shootingsight hammer pack gives a very nice trigger.
The AUG with the 2020 sear is pretty good, but nobody is going to be confusing it with a sniper setup. BSW |
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Posted: 9/16/2020 7:03:19 AM EDT
[#12]
Make one out the gate ...no
Gun companies don't have to make the best gun They just have to make it good enough |
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Posted: 9/16/2020 8:34:55 AM EDT
[#13]
I have an IWI SAR16, trigger is certainly not to my liking. That said, the X95 trigger pack is cross compatible. With an X95 trigger pack (which is a night and day difference to the SAR trigger pack) along with the Geissele trigger bow is a winning combination for me. Extremely satisfied with the trigger now. That likely means for me that the Geissele trigger bow would be all I would want in an X95. I hear the Tavor 7 trigger pack is even better than the X95.
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Posted: 9/16/2020 2:14:05 PM EDT
[#14]
With the exception of the original Tavor SAR semiauto pack, which is the only trigger that ever made my finger tired after a lot of rounds, there really isn't anything wrong with standard bullpup trigger packs. Most are military grade 8 lb trigger pulls just like your standard AR-15.
You can improve on the pull, and the Gieselle pack in the Tavor does just that. At the end of the day, you are always going to have a mechanical linkage adding some friction to the system, but good design can minimize that. There are also other tricks, and I have used some in current designs and ones that are in the works, but to be honest I am not going to share them in a public forum, and they just took careful planning and design and not a billion dollars.  The question is...why? My personal opinion is the vast majority of shooters think a lighter trigger will make them a better shooter, and all it really does is increase their chance of a negligent discharge. In my personal experience, most shooters cannot leverage that lighter trigger into better groups, and won't see much difference in an 8lb vs a 3lb trigger, other than letting a round off too soon or accidentally double tapping a second riybd on recoil. it is the same thing as how many people claim to be able to shoot 1" groups at 100 yards on the internet vs. when they actually go out to the range. Very few people seem to be able to shoot to the mechanical accuracy of the average firearm that is built today. Once again, just my personal opinion. Sven Manticore Arms |
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Posted: 9/16/2020 6:19:45 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: With the exception of the original Tavor SAR semiauto pack, which is the only trigger that ever made my finger tired after a lot of rounds, there really isn't anything wrong with standard bullpup trigger packs. Most are military grade 8 lb trigger pulls just like your standard AR-15. You can improve on the pull, and the Gieselle pack in the Tavor does just that. At the end of the day, you are always going to have a mechanical linkage adding some friction to the system, but good design can minimize that. There are also other tricks, and I have used some in current designs and ones that are in the works, but to be honest I am not going to share them in a public forum, and they just took careful planning and design and not a billion dollars. The question is...why? My personal opinion is the vast majority of shooters think a lighter trigger will make them a better shooter, and all it really does is increase their chance of a negligent discharge. In my personal experience, most shooters cannot leverage that lighter trigger into better groups, and won't see much difference in an 8lb vs a 3lb trigger, other than letting a round off too soon or accidentally double tapping a second riybd on recoil. it is the same thing as how many people claim to be able to shoot 1" groups at 100 yards on the internet vs. when they actually go out to the range. Very few people seem to be able to shoot to the mechanical accuracy of the average firearm that is built today. Once again, just my personal opinion. Sven Manticore Arms About sums it up... Forrest |
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Posted: 9/16/2020 10:52:40 PM EDT
[#16]
The stock rdb trigger is better than any stock AR GI trigger. Not a geissele, but I'd compare it to a slightly heavier RRA 2 stage, and swapping in the lighter trigger spring I'd say it's a very close comparison
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Posted: 11/14/2020 11:20:13 PM EDT
[#17]
I really want to get hands on with the ar-15 trigger setup packs for the aug. i know that corvus shows one off, but havent imported it. I know one existed prior, and it vanished in thin air.
I wish someone could take the initiative to design a modular trigger pack that can be dropped into an aug, and run. A simple aluminum housing, with a front spring returned cross bar, that engages the sear hook on an AR15 style trigger assy, and trips a ar style hammer. It doesnt even have to be a geissele or elftmann tier, just something to reduce overall break pressure. Hell, even better would be a trigger pack for the nato guys, that interfaces with a redesigned catch to replace/remove the second mag release button up top, converting it into a bolt release that works with the trigger pack bolt catch. There is zero reason why this wouldnt be easily solved, since the nato aug’s have only one trigger bar on the right, and the entire left side is free/open to manipulation. |
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Posted: 11/15/2020 8:22:58 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: With the exception of the original Tavor SAR semiauto pack, which is the only trigger that ever made my finger tired after a lot of rounds, there really isn't anything wrong with standard bullpup trigger packs. Most are military grade 8 lb trigger pulls just like your standard AR-15. You can improve on the pull, and the Gieselle pack in the Tavor does just that. At the end of the day, you are always going to have a mechanical linkage adding some friction to the system, but good design can minimize that. There are also other tricks, and I have used some in current designs and ones that are in the works, but to be honest I am not going to share them in a public forum, and they just took careful planning and design and not a billion dollars. The question is...why? My personal opinion is the vast majority of shooters think a lighter trigger will make them a better shooter, and all it really does is increase their chance of a negligent discharge. In my personal experience, most shooters cannot leverage that lighter trigger into better groups, and won't see much difference in an 8lb vs a 3lb trigger, other than letting a round off too soon or accidentally double tapping a second riybd on recoil. it is the same thing as how many people claim to be able to shoot 1" groups at 100 yards on the internet vs. when they actually go out to the range. Very few people seem to be able to shoot to the mechanical accuracy of the average firearm that is built today. Once again, just my personal opinion. Sven Manticore Arms Well, if Joe Blow can only drive his Porsche through the corner at 50mph and the Stig can do it at 80mph and then Joe mods his Porsche and can now do it at 60, didn't he realize some benefit, even if he's far off the mark of what the best can do with the same equipment? |
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Posted: 11/15/2020 8:50:19 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: With the exception of the original Tavor SAR semiauto pack, which is the only trigger that ever made my finger tired after a lot of rounds, there really isn't anything wrong with standard bullpup trigger packs. Most are military grade 8 lb trigger pulls just like your standard AR-15. You can improve on the pull, and the Gieselle pack in the Tavor does just that. At the end of the day, you are always going to have a mechanical linkage adding some friction to the system, but good design can minimize that. There are also other tricks, and I have used some in current designs and ones that are in the works, but to be honest I am not going to share them in a public forum, and they just took careful planning and design and not a billion dollars. The question is...why? My personal opinion is the vast majority of shooters think a lighter trigger will make them a better shooter, and all it really does is increase their chance of a negligent discharge. In my personal experience, most shooters cannot leverage that lighter trigger into better groups, and won't see much difference in an 8lb vs a 3lb trigger, other than letting a round off too soon or accidentally double tapping a second riybd on recoil. it is the same thing as how many people claim to be able to shoot 1" groups at 100 yards on the internet vs. when they actually go out to the range. Very few people seem to be able to shoot to the mechanical accuracy of the average firearm that is built today. Once again, just my personal opinion. Sven Manticore Arms Have you tried the K&M M17S? It's not just that the trigger is light (~5lbs), but it short and crisp. Ken has done an amazing job of tweaking the linkage system to make an excellent trigger. I can say with a great deal of confidence that the K&M Arms M17S has the best factory trigger of any bullpup, and compares extremely favorably with any trigger on the market, factory or aftermarket. Now, if only he could figure a way to drop a pound or so off the weight of the gun. 
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Posted: 11/15/2020 8:56:36 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: With the exception of the original Tavor SAR semiauto pack, which is the only trigger that ever made my finger tired after a lot of rounds, there really isn't anything wrong with standard bullpup trigger packs. Most are military grade 8 lb trigger pulls just like your standard AR-15. You can improve on the pull, and the Gieselle pack in the Tavor does just that. At the end of the day, you are always going to have a mechanical linkage adding some friction to the system, but good design can minimize that. There are also other tricks, and I have used some in current designs and ones that are in the works, but to be honest I am not going to share them in a public forum, and they just took careful planning and design and not a billion dollars. The question is...why? My personal opinion is the vast majority of shooters think a lighter trigger will make them a better shooter, and all it really does is increase their chance of a negligent discharge. In my personal experience, most shooters cannot leverage that lighter trigger into better groups, and won't see much difference in an 8lb vs a 3lb trigger, other than letting a round off too soon or accidentally double tapping a second riybd on recoil. it is the same thing as how many people claim to be able to shoot 1" groups at 100 yards on the internet vs. when they actually go out to the range. Very few people seem to be able to shoot to the mechanical accuracy of the average firearm that is built today. Once again, just my personal opinion. Sven Manticore Arms I care deeply about how smooth the travel is, and how crisp the break is. I am not a fantastic shot, but a bad trigger can hamper me. I have had a few triggers like that. One was on an AR, which I easily replaced. One is on a Bushmaster M17s. |
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Posted: 11/15/2020 2:46:07 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My Tavor has a great trigger. It's already been done. |
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Posted: 11/15/2020 7:07:05 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Geissele Super Sabra trigger pack and Super Sabra Lightning Bow Trigger is an excellent combination. This..... |
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Posted: 11/15/2020 9:03:36 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: With the exception of the original Tavor SAR semiauto pack, which is the only trigger that ever made my finger tired after a lot of rounds, there really isn't anything wrong with standard bullpup trigger packs. Most are military grade 8 lb trigger pulls just like your standard AR-15. You can improve on the pull, and the Gieselle pack in the Tavor does just that. At the end of the day, you are always going to have a mechanical linkage adding some friction to the system, but good design can minimize that. There are also other tricks, and I have used some in current designs and ones that are in the works, but to be honest I am not going to share them in a public forum, and they just took careful planning and design and not a billion dollars. The question is...why? My personal opinion is the vast majority of shooters think a lighter trigger will make them a better shooter, and all it really does is increase their chance of a negligent discharge. In my personal experience, most shooters cannot leverage that lighter trigger into better groups, and won't see much difference in an 8lb vs a 3lb trigger, other than letting a round off too soon or accidentally double tapping a second riybd on recoil. it is the same thing as how many people claim to be able to shoot 1" groups at 100 yards on the internet vs. when they actually go out to the range. Very few people seem to be able to shoot to the mechanical accuracy of the average firearm that is built today. Once again, just my personal opinion. Sven Manticore Arms Absolutely right. I'm amazed at what people could do in years past with what we consider "crap" triggers... |
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Posted: 11/15/2020 9:49:14 PM EDT
[#24]
Several years ago Corviso Defenso developed a prototype trigger pack that dropped into an AUG, it used modified AR match grade triggers
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Posted: 11/15/2020 10:42:18 PM EDT
[#25]
+1 for the K&M 556; still waiting to get it together for the 762.
I will allow anyone who wants to to come out to my club and try out my M17S. Ken has done such a great job on these and I really like the "openness" of the stock. It allows barrel cooling; at least that's what I told me wife when she asked how much was that thing? And yeah I'll never be good enough to get all possible accuracy from it but I sure like to try! |
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Posted: 11/15/2020 11:21:21 PM EDT
[#26]
I'm sure that I'm quite ignorant about the trigger discussion, as I don't seem to feel or perceive the seemingly widely-claimed and accepted "poor quality" of stock bullpup triggers. I shoot AUG, Tavor IDF, Tavor SAR-16, and x95 routinely. And, speaking frankly and no boast... I do seem to be able to hit my targets pretty well with all of these. All are stock - OK, the TAVOR IDF has had one of those return springs removed to lighten the trigger a bit, but otherwise all of the guns are running their factory hammer-pacs. I can agree that the x95 stock trigger is a bit lighter and perhaps a bit smoother then that of the Tavor SAR 16 and the AUG, but none of the triggers seems to hamper my ability to put rounds into targets fairly respectably at close and intermediate carbine ranges (25 - 250m). Which is pretty much what I'm satisfied with. I am considering getting another x95 hammer-pac for one of the SAR's... But.
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Posted: 11/15/2020 11:47:57 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You could make an excellent e-trigger but the ATF has outlawed innovation in firearms design. Why does this myth persist? https://digitrigger.com/ |
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Posted: 11/16/2020 12:29:41 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote History$500-$600 and you have to send your lower in for them to install it?!? LOL... it's a solenoid pulling a trigger.  |
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Posted: 11/16/2020 12:37:10 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: $500-$600 and you have to send your lower in for them to install it?!? LOL... it's a solenoid pulling a trigger. Quote HistoryQuoted: $500-$600 and you have to send your lower in for them to install it?!? LOL... it's a solenoid pulling a trigger. You only have to send them your lower if you're unable to read: https://digitrigger.com/digitrigger-12 While we recommend our FREE factory installation, customers wanting to perform their own installs are welcome to do so. |
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Posted: 11/16/2020 10:26:15 PM EDT
[#30]
Quoted: Not a practical discussion, but suppose the .gov paid some engineering firm $1 Billion (or whatever inordinate sum you want to imagine) to develop a bullpup rifle that is at least as reliable as an AR-15, and has as good of a trigger pull as a Geissele. You think they could pull it off? For the sake of discussion, assume that the can build the platform on an existing bullpup like a Tavor or something. The RDB has a perfectly respectable trigger. All it takes is bothering to design & build a trigger with low friction and short, neutral sear engagement; historically that hasn't been a priority since bullpups have typically been service arms. Don't forget that the good old AR15 has a pretty unremarkable trigger itself, per the mil-spec. |
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Posted: 11/16/2020 11:00:43 PM EDT
[#31]
I never had an issue with the factory trigger on the Steyr AUG, and always found it very enjoyable to shoot. However, I did upgrade the trigger pack with the 2020 sear, and I’m very impressed with just how well it improved the trigger pull. It’s definitely worth the $100 investment, which I find financially reasonable.
The Tavor SAR, on the other hand, had the worst trigger I’ve ever encountered. I dropped in the Geissele Super Sabra trigger pack along with the Lightning Bow Trigger, which made a huge difference. I would definitely recommend the Lightning Bow Trigger, but I can’t say whether the Super Sabra is a major improvement over the cheaper ShootingSight TAV-D, or even the improved trigger pack in the X95. I might just pick up the TAV-D and X95 trigger packs to do my own comparison. IMO though regarding the Tavor (specifically the SAR), you shouldn’t have to dump several hundred dollars into a weapon to achieve a respectable trigger pull. |
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Posted: 12/2/2020 11:28:22 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm sure that I'm quite ignorant about the trigger discussion, as I don't seem to feel or perceive the seemingly widely-claimed and accepted "poor quality" of stock bullpup triggers. I shoot AUG, Tavor IDF, Tavor SAR-16, and x95 routinely. And, speaking frankly and no boast... I do seem to be able to hit my targets pretty well with all of these. All are stock - OK, the TAVOR IDF has had one of those return springs removed to lighten the trigger a bit, but otherwise all of the guns are running their factory hammer-pacs. I can agree that the x95 stock trigger is a bit lighter and perhaps a bit smoother then that of the Tavor SAR 16 and the AUG, but none of the triggers seems to hamper my ability to put rounds into targets fairly respectably at close and intermediate carbine ranges (25 - 250m). Which is pretty much what I'm satisfied with. I am considering getting another x95 hammer-pac for one of the SAR's... But. Shooting any of those bullpups back to back with even a stock AR will make the deficiencies in the triggers very evident. Just because you think your performance with those triggers is acceptable doesn't make those triggers not awful; I can shot guns with shitty triggers well also, but that doesn't mean I can't shoot better with a really good trigger. |
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Posted: 12/2/2020 11:51:33 AM EDT
[#33]
I put the Tav-D in my SAR and it was a big improvement. I also have a converted to 9mm SAR and I haven't fired it enough to get a feel whether I'd want to drop more cash into it: RANGE TIME!
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Posted: 12/2/2020 12:11:00 PM EDT
[#34]
I always liked the idea of a hydraulicly operated trigger system. Of course, fluid still has weight, a leak might develop rendering the system inoperative, can you make it absolutely freeze proof?
<——- not an engineer. my other idea was a transfer rod in a light synthetic greese filled sleeve. It still has mass and would need a trigger released system rod lock, perhaps like a glock/savage trigger shoe safety, to prevent a drop fire from the rod mass inertia. |
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Posted: 12/2/2020 12:41:55 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I always liked the idea of a hydraulicly operated trigger system. Of course, fluid still has weight, a leak might develop rendering the system inoperative, can you make it absolutely freeze proof? <——- not an engineer. my other idea was a transfer rod in a light synthetic greese filled sleeve. It still has mass and would need a trigger released system rod lock, perhaps like a glock/savage trigger shoe safety, to prevent a drop fire from the rod mass inertia. Clever. Just use brake fluid. |
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Posted: 12/2/2020 5:31:18 PM EDT
[#36]
I find the comments here interesting...
The Keltec RDB already has a decent trigger, but everyone continues to talk about aftermarket triggers for other bullpups... (By the way, some of those aftermarket triggers are decent)... But that doesn't change the fact that decent triggers can be designed for bullpups without .gov dollars (and the kiss of death that often follows such money)... I have an early Steyr AUG that has an 'acceptable' trigger, but not as good as the Keltec RDB. Just sayin'... Forrest |
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Posted: 12/7/2020 2:02:05 AM EDT
[#37]
For off the rack, mass produced guns at an acceptable price point,
You are dealing with a trigger very close to your sear, etc. On a standard configuration ride, And a trigger very far, linked to it, on a bullpup configured rifle. Your typical standard configuration issue rifle will be around 6 pounds. And very easy to and less expensive to improve on. Sure, there will be some new oddballs like an ARX with a ten pound, horrible trigger, old school battle rifles up there, or Valmet or somebody will be sending 3 pounders off the production line, but 75% or so are going to run from the 5s to the 7s. Typical bullpup service configurations have linkages that look well done to looking like a piece of coat hanger. And are more expensive and complicated to improve than standard configuration. So the typical service bullpup is going to be a 9-10 pound trigger. And this is just pull weight. Length of travel, grittiness, crispness, slap, etc. Are all other components of the “feel” of a trigger. |
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Posted: 12/8/2020 6:57:00 PM EDT
[#38]
MY AUG with a 2020 sear and a trigger spring from Microtech is pretty damned decent. Not as good as the G-trigger in my SAR, but very pleasant.
I have no idea if those springs can be sourced any longer, but has been fully functional and provides a much nicer than factory pull. |
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Posted: 12/9/2020 11:09:38 AM EDT
[#39]
I'd bet the Rats could do it.
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Posted: 12/9/2020 9:48:41 PM EDT
[#40]
Surprised no one has submitted Desert Tech’s SRS A1/Covert trigger for consideration. It’s better than good and borderline great — short, positive, consistent. So, yes, it can be done because DT did it about a decade ago.
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