I want to build a SBR with a suppressor for home defense and for more enjoyable target shooting.
More I read about these firearms laws, less I want to own one of these firearms.

What I know today?

• I need a gun trust and go trough the legal hoops with all members of the family 18 years old and older


• I need to register the trust with the local Court House


• Folks not part of the trust can't shoot my firearm


• I have to keep a copy of the trust with the firearm at all times


• I must not transport my firearm between states until I first notify ATF and get the required permission.


• I cannot transport the firearm in a car loaded


• The gun must be inaccessible/locked so that only co-trustees have access to it

My concerns?

• What I do not know today that can be source of legal issues even if I follow all what I know today?


• How do I keep the firearm ready for home defense if it must be locked so children under 18 can't have access to it as they can't be co-trustees? One option is to keep it locked until they reach 18? How about friends or strangers entering the house? Would that create a legal problem with an unlocked firearm?

Maybe I just live a simpler life without SBR and suppressor......any help is appreciated.

Most of that is incorrect
Standby

Anyone can shoot the gun. Period.

Transporting loaded guns is largely regulated on the state level and revolves around hunting regulations. No loaded rifles in CO to combat poaching from the road
This is one argument for pistol braces, locked and loaded like my CCW

There’s no requirement for safe storage

My stamps are in the safe
Some people may photocopy or reduce the size and roll it up and shove it in their Magpul pistol grip. I don’t even do that. Only ATF gets to see my personal tax receipts. Not the range officer, not the PD

Courthouse might be a state requirement, not federal. But I think that’s bad info

My suppressed SBR leans in the corner of the bedroom
Simpler? You’ll live a deafer life lighting off a 16” 556 in a hallway

A 5320.20 is technically a thing but there are certain things in which I don’t participate regularly

I swear he was trying to rob the stagecoach officer.

You’re over thinking it.

Stop overthinking it. A good shoot is still a good shoot.

I run a Mk18 SBR with a Socom can as a full time house gun.

And if you can’t stop the overthinking/nervous Nellie issues, an SBR is probably not for you.

Sorry was driving.

Here’s my setup.

Trust. Me as trustee. My two kids as beneficiaries (were ages 14 and 10 when i set it up).
My daughter lives with me and is 18 now so I will eventually change the trust to make her a cotrustee (after i file another sbr).

Trust has 5 sbrs and 17 suppressors on it.

My hd rifle is a 6” 300blk suppressed sbr sitting by the bed.
Her hd rifle is an 8.5” 300blk suppressed sbr.

Something happens we’re all good.

Say my son is there and his mother (not on the trust) and something happens. They both grab some suppressed sbrs and the four of us kill the burglars.   Their mom isn’t on the trust.  No issues since I’m present.


A good shoot is a good shoot.

I keep my 10.3'' suppressed SBR out at the bedside for home defense, whether it's hogs, coyotes, or 2 legged varmints. You don't need to keep it locked if you or another trustee is present. If you're present you can leave it laying wherever.

Troll thread.  

Honestly all what I know today comes from companies, lawyers dealing with trusts and gun laws and other sources that seemed reputable. So much information that it is like drinking from a firehose.

- I need to register the NFA gun trust with the local Court House (state level requirement)
- Folks not part of the trust can't shoot my NFA firearm
- I have to keep a copy of the trust with the NFA firearm at all times
- I must not transport my NFA SBR firearm between states until I first notify ATF and get the required permission
- I cannot transport the NFA SBR firearm in a car loaded
- The NFA firearms must be inaccessible/locked so that only co-trustees have access to it

The magnitude of these rules started bothering me as there is no single list of NFA firearms do's and don'ts while penalties can be severe. I hope it explains where I am coming from.

as long as you are present, others can use your NFA firearm.
you are only required to show the stamp to irs/atf.  i keep a copy of my stamps in pdf form on my phone.
i don't have to show anyone my trust.  atf already approved it when they gave me the stamp.

You're getting BS info. I have 14 stamps in my trust and live in MO

All that said, I use to have a suppressed SBR as my goto HD but after consideration I moved to a pinned 14.5 unsuppressed. Bottom line - I want the entire neighborhood to wake up to the sounds of war if anyone comes in my house. 911 dispatch should light the fuck up. Just my .02

As other's have said:

I need to register the NFA gun trust with the local Court House (state level requirement) - depends on the state law on trusts.  Most likely had nothing to do with the firearms aspect.  In Texas all I had to do was have it notarized.  
- Folks not part of the trust can't shoot my NFA firearm.  100% incorrect.  You need to be there, so you can't give it to someone not on the trust and they go to the range by themselves.  But no different that say a gun range having a few NFA items available for rental.  
- I have to keep a copy of the trust with the NFA firearm at all times.  No, but a good idea, in case you have a cop examining them for whatever reason.  Just make a copy of the stamp form, laminate it, and have it in your range bag or trunk.  
- I must not transport my NFA SBR firearm between states until I first notify ATF and get the required permission.  Correct.  Permission form takes about a month to get back, is good for a year, it's no big deal.  
- I cannot transport the NFA SBR firearm in a car loaded.  Depends on the state laws about transportation of loaded firearms - no Federal law about it, and I doubt state law puts any different standards on NFA items that regular items.  
- The NFA firearms must be inaccessible/locked so that only co-trustees have access to it.  No, no requirement for this, that said, everyone should own and use a gun safe to keep crackheads from stealing their stuff.

Thanks guys, that helps! There is lots of misinformation and scare tactics from sources you would expect to have it right.

Some of that misinformation comes from:
- https://thetrustshop.net/faqs/#FAQ19 - "six states require you to register your trust at the local Court House"
- https://www.legacylawmissouri.com/estate-planning/nfa-gun-trusts/ - "Under federal law, an NFA firearm can never be handled or transported by anyone other than the registered owner." <- I have seen these statements on several other "reputable" websites. I have seen a statement that you can't legally have your buddies shooting your NFA firearm in a gun range!
- https://thetrustshop.net/faqs/#FAQ3 - "You always need to have a copy of your Gun Trust and your ATF Tax Stamp with you whenever you are in possession of your Silencer or SBR. Always have a copy of your Gun Trust with you when you have your NFA Firearms with you."

It looks like it is not as crazy as these sources try to portrait it!

Been watching John Lovell?

This line of thought definitely has merit. I’d just say, throw a set of electronic muffs next to your HD gun. If don’t have time to throw them on before the bullets fly then it is what it is, but if you do have time to throw them on you’ll be glad they’re there.

My .02c

Someone invades my castle, I'm not concerned with which gun I pick up to defend myself.

I watched that video...my SBR is still suppressed. 77gr TMK's are still loud enough through the suppressor and my neighbors are close enough that someone is gonna hear it.

If you legally own an SBR and suppressor, there should be no "legal restrictions" in employing it in a legal self-defense action.
It will most likely be confiscated for the investigation.
Get a receipt!

Agreed. Given a normal level of ambient noise (which is relatively low unless you're smack dab downtown in a very large city), a suppressed supersonic round is still going to wake everyone up. It's hardly a mouse fart. The reduction in flash and sound to the shooter's ear is well worth the 'cost' of potentially, maybe, possibly not waking someone up two blocks away and hoping they are concerned/aware enough to call LE. Too many assumptions and costs are baked into the 'no suppressor, much noise' argument to justify the potential benefits.

I'll also echo others: A suppressed SBR is the HD weapon. Only factor I'd weigh there are penetration concerns, but that's not an NFA/Suppressor question.

My SBRs are all in the safe, spent too much on them to forget to put them away when I leave the house. I keep a double barrel shotgun by the bed because I'm a lousy
shot at 3am.

Edit: just my opinion but if someone breaks in my house I want all hell to break loose including a loud shotgun going off, if I don't hit him he won't stick around with all the noise.

This is an interesting strategy.  Use a much lesser weapon, plan for miss contingencies, one of those being the perp leaves after a miss.

I'd rethink the plan and train with your superior option.

That's got to be a troll post. If it was real he'd have said he uses a pump and racks one in to scare them off.

Fuck that.  Two of my HD weapons are SBRs, one with a suppressor, lights, and one set up for NV.  Both have a spare mag nearby, both have RDS.
My backup is a Remington 700 Express with the plug out and loaded to the gills with #4 buck and 00, weapon light and fiber sights.

Then there are the handguns.  Two locations for easy reach, both with lights and night sights.

Breaking into my home will be a mistake, I'll be happy to ramp it up to level 20.  And once you break in, it's personal, don't even think about trying to escape. Your house or mine, it's all the same to me.

Debatable.

M2 SBS by FredMan, on Flickr

Yeah, maybe my meter is way off.  I hope so, otherwise...

I've seen many debates where one person stands by the clearly wrong answer.

This would be one of them.  Very nice shotgun, and it is completely inferior as an HD weapon.  But dove within 20 feet should be worried...

I'm out of town for work and was talking to my wife late the other night when the security alarm went off from "motion detected in the living room" which is downstairs. It ended up being a false alarm - maybe the heat moved a curtain or something. But initially it was a stressful event because I was so far away and my wife and kids were home without me and there seemed to be reason to believe someone might be in the house.

Fortunately my wife is a badass. She opened the hornady safe under the bed, bypassed the 9mm handgun, and grabbed the suppressed 300 blackout, slung it, and went to grab the kids (toddler and baby) from their beds and bring them into the master bedroom like we had discussed as our plan in such an event. Then she sat in the doorway watching the top of the stairs while she waited to see if the alarm went off again (we had rearmed it) or if someone tried coming up the stairs.

After about 20 minutes of no motion or movement, she carefully cleared the stairs and then living room/kitchen area, and then went out the back door to check the basement windows from outside to see if they were broken or opened - because that seemed safer than going into the basement to check where it would be easier to be ambushed if someone was actually there. She could still see the stairs from the back yard windows so no one could sneak upstairs.

Anyway, all's well that ends well, but I have to say, it was good that we had discussed a plan of action ahead of time, but she commented that she would have felt much more vulnerable and panicked if that had happened and she was upstairs without a gun, armed only with the hope that if someone was in the house they would choose to leave her and the kids alone.

She had no interest in the handgun, because it's hard enough to shoot when she's focused, so shooting it accurately under stress would have been harder than a rifle. I don't have a shotgun set up, but it would have been much harder for her to clear the stairs and house with.

Pic of wife guarding the doorway

Attached File


Pic of ultimate HD weapon - especially for families.
7" 300 blk
URX4 8.5"
Arisaka 300 light
Omega 9k
T1 unity FAST mount
Attached File

x 100

What ammo? I use VMAX in my 300BO

You don't have to do this.  Once you have the items in the Trust, you can add Trustees with minimal paperwork and nothing being sent to the ATF.

Purchase, get your tax stamp, and receive what you want to hold in your trust (SBRs, Suppressors).

Once all of that is done, fill out the "Amendment to add a Trustee" and "Trustee Acknowledgement" forms for those to be added as Trustees.  Done.  No fingerprint cards or background check required.

The downside is if you add anything new to the Trust, you have to submit Fingerprint Cards and a "Responsible Person Questionnaire" for each of the existing Trustees.  Better to buy it all with 1 name on the trust and then add everyone and never touch that trust again.

REF:  How to Amend a Gun Trust to Add a Responsible Person (or remove one)