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Posted: 2/5/2020 9:19:41 PM EST
I have a stribog SP9A1 and I’m trying to figure out the best zero for my laser.

I know a popular one for ARs is the comprehensive zero but would that also be best for pcc I’m not shooting more than 50 yards with it.

Thoughts?
Link Posted: 2/5/2020 10:04:53 PM EST
Just put it on top of your red dot at a long distance. Know your height over bore for anything close in.
Link Posted: 2/5/2020 10:17:09 PM EST
zero it for steel at 50, done
Link Posted: 2/5/2020 10:57:37 PM EST
At night while looking through your NODs overlap it your already zeroed red dot (I use 25 yards) at the furthest distance you can see. All your hold overs and unders will be the same.
Link Posted: 2/6/2020 8:57:45 AM EST
dont overthink it.

I parallel zero everything. PCC, 5.56, handgun. all of it.

the reality is when you parallel zero with a laser on the top or side your POI is only 1-1.5 inches off the POA and with a 0.7mw laser the bloom is going to cover both the POA and POI.
Link Posted: 2/6/2020 10:08:56 AM EST
Here at my place, which is about the only place I shoot, the furthest safe shot is usually 100 yards. As in your situation, it's pretty close range shooting.
I adjust for parallel laser. That way, no matter what comes up, I need keep in mind only the offset in the normal iron sight holdover.

But after the adjustment, I always make the gun safe, and then confirm at some extreme distance, that the laser is "close" to where the sights point out there. I want to be sure that the laser isn't way off to one side out there and at least have an idea how any vertical offset adds up way out there. Just takes a few seconds and expends no ammo.
Link Posted: 2/6/2020 10:36:09 AM EST
Parallel zero doesn’t take into account bullet drop, which is significant on a PCC after 50y.

I too recommend overlaying it with your red dot at it’s known zero distance. That way you only have one hold to remember.
Link Posted: 2/6/2020 12:48:50 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By amediocreshooter:
Parallel zero doesn’t take into account bullet drop, which is significant on a PCC after 50y.

I too recommend overlaying it with your red dot at it’s known zero distance. That way you only have one hold to remember.
View Quote
your proving my point even more of a parallel zero by mentioning bullet drop past 50 yards.

There's a reason everyone uses a parallel zero - unless your trying to split a playing card shooting at night with nods.
Link Posted: 2/6/2020 1:06:31 PM EST
[Last Edit: 2/6/2020 1:07:30 PM EST by amediocreshooter]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By xLucidx:

your proving my point even more of a parallel zero by mentioning bullet drop past 50 yards.

There's a reason everyone uses a parallel zero - unless your trying to split a playing card shooting at night with nods.
View Quote
Elaborate please.

Parallel zero is great for CQB because there are no hold overs/unders at room clearing distances.

Beyond that it will be different from your optic POA/POI which requires two holds to remember.

And why wouldn’t you want the most precise aiming capability possible?
Link Posted: 2/6/2020 1:56:36 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By amediocreshooter:

Elaborate please.

Parallel zero is great for CQB because there are no hold overs/unders at room clearing distances.

Beyond that it will be different from your optic POA/POI which requires two holds to remember.

And why wouldn’t you want the most precise aiming capability possible?
View Quote
Maybe because they want to waste money on buying silly targets, waste time to and ammo to zero. Most people don't understand that your parallel zeo is only good for that range. At further distances their laser will be off which can be simply verified by using your NODs to look through your RDS at night. If you zero using the intersecting/converging zero at the furthest distance you can see say 800 yards the distance from your laser to the center of the bore will start at @ 1.5" and only get narrower all the way out to the apex at 800 yards. Other things people don't understand is their co-aligned visible laser is only good for a certain distance also this can also be verified at night looking through your RDS and seeing where the visible laser lines up vs the RDS and IR laser, which is why I zero my IR to RDS only. I've been preaching this for awhile now and people are now just starting to realize the advantages of one vs the other. I can tell you for a fact that making hits at distance is easier with a intersecting zero vs parallel.
Link Posted: 2/6/2020 2:20:39 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By amediocreshooter:

Elaborate please.

Parallel zero is great for CQB because there are no hold overs/unders at room clearing distances.

Beyond that it will be different from your optic POA/POI which requires two holds to remember.

And why wouldn’t you want the most precise aiming capability possible?
View Quote
not trying to sound like a jerk or smarty pants but think about how lasers work.
Think about the geometry between the laser diode and the bore and whats required in terms of adjustment to make the laser meet the point of impact at a close distance before bullet ballistics have the chance to rise.

our very own TNVC made a video about it =https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tu591pdAQc4

in the video the offset laser MS paint drawing also applies to vertical adjustments also.

If you zero a laser at 25 yards, then try to shoot a target at 75-100 yards your impact point will be FEET higher than the laser on the target - because of the downward angle to meet your 25 yard zero.
The best way you can see what im talking about is take a visible laser and put it on a gun - zero it at 25 then turn the laser on and aim at something 75-100 yards away this evening.

I had the same thought process as you until it was illustrated infront of me then I understood what everyone was talking about.

If I was never going to shoot at anything further than 25 yards, ever. then I would say go for a POA/POI zero with a laser at 25.

when you zero a laser parallel with the bore you only have to account for ballistic drop
When you zero a laser at say 25 yards then try to shoot at 75-100 you have to account for ballistic drop and the downward angle required of your laser to meet that 25 yard zero.
Link Posted: 2/6/2020 2:33:39 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By MunnyShot:

Maybe because they want to waste money on buying silly targets, waste time to and ammo to zero. Most people don't understand that your parallel zeo is only good for that range. At further distances their laser will be off which can be simply verified by using your NODs to look through your RDS at night. If you zero using the intersecting/converging zero at the furthest distance you can see say 800 yards the distance from your laser to the center of the bore will start at @ 1.5" and only get narrower all the way out to the apex at 800 yards. Other things people don't understand is their co-aligned visible laser is only good for a certain distance also this can also be verified at night looking through your RDS and seeing where the visible laser lines up vs the RDS and IR laser, which is why I zero my IR to RDS only. I've been preaching this for awhile now and people are now just starting to realize the advantages of one vs the other. I can tell you for a fact that making hits at distance is easier with a intersecting zero vs parallel.
View Quote


someone else can take it from here. you guys enjoy whatever laser zero you like.
Link Posted: 2/6/2020 2:36:03 PM EST
[Last Edit: 2/6/2020 2:42:11 PM EST by amediocreshooter]
Ah. That’s the disconnect. I don’t zero anything (optic or laser) at 25 yards for exactly the reasons you mentioned.

I zero my lasers (on 5.56 guns) to POI at 100y, and my x400v on pistols to 50y. With that much distance between the laser and the POI the offset at further distances is negligible. In fact, I can still easily hit an IPSC at 200y because of the flat trajectory of 5.56 and the round impacts only two inches left (the laser is approximately two inches to the right of the bore) of POI. At 50y I am (wanna guess?) 1” right.

The easiest way to zero to POI at 100y is to overlay the laser to the optics POA. Then fire to confirm. All these guys out here with reflective tape and taking measurements of impacts and their laser’s bore offset are spending way too much time and they still have to shoot at 100y to confirm dope anyway. (Or at least they should but we know no one ever shoots far with lasers because it’s way cooler to discuss tube specs on a message board than shoot)
Link Posted: 2/6/2020 2:58:03 PM EST
[Last Edit: 2/6/2020 2:58:36 PM EST by TNVC]
Link Posted: 2/7/2020 9:56:02 AM EST
I know the discussion gets tiresome. But new guys arrive here continuously, and some don't know these things. We have a duty to help these guys by posting what they need to know so they can choose. So here's my input. Take it or leave it.

Your laser squirts light in a straight line to infinity.
Your iron sights and red dot sights and scope sights "aim" in a straight line to infinity.
Your barrel has a straight line axis to infinity.
Your bullet follows an arc well defined in external ballistics mathematics.

If the laser and sights are aligned exactly parallel, the offset of their exact downrange aiming points would be identical anywhere downrange, and along the bullet's path from the floor at your feet to a zillion miles away, regardless which "sighyt" you use for a shot, the bullet strike will be in the same place relative to the aiming spots. If you decide to take a 3500 yard shot, the hold over and windage considerations would be the same for either parallel sight other than factoring in the inch and a half (or whatever) offset between the two. If you are aiming for an eyeball, the offset is important. If you want to hit a tea cup saucer, the offset doesn't matter. Only the bullet ballistics matter.

If the laser and the BARREL axis are parallel, just as when the sights and the barrel axis are parallel, you have no point blank ranges at all. and the bullet drop starts the instant the bullet leaves the barrel at the bore/sight offset distance, and that distance grows until the bullet hits the ground. The bullet falls away from the point of aim from the instant it exits the barrel. Nobody's sights are like that. People set their sights for a point blank range, where POA and POI exactly cross. There are two point blank ranges, because the bullet first rises through point blank #1 and then arcs over and falls through point blank #2.
If the laser and irons (or any optical scope of any type - when I say "irons" here, I mean any of these) are exactly parallel, nothing changes anywhere along the line of aim, and you hold exactly the same for either.

I sight my rifles for pretty short distances and arrive at a first point blank range that makes the second point blank range sensible for my purposes or vice versa. When I am happy with the setting of the irons, I sight the laser to strike as close to exactly the horizontal and vertical offset between iron sight axis and laser axis as I can. The barrel axis doesn't matter.

This takes ten minutes. I do that with an aluminum nail, a board, a piece of graph paper and the gun. Put the graph paper on the board, hammer in the nail through at the center of the graph paper and cut off the nail head. Put the board and paper on the floor and set the bore down over the nail. Turn on the laser. Swivel the gun so it is square to the graph grids. Aim with the irons and note or mark the exact spot on the paper where the irons are looking. Mark it. Now mark the spot the laser hits. Remove the gun and measure the offset between the aiming dots. There is your offset for that setup, and it's "close enough" even if the laser is adjusted to extreme limits, because the paper is only a couple feet away). Save the board and paper as-is and map and label all of your guns and setups on it.

You know your iron sight point blank ranges. Make a target with an iron sight aiming bull you can see at the point blank range you prefer and stick on a glint patch an inch square (I use 2" square because I'm shaky) centered on the laser offset location. Use that to get the laser real close and then shoot any old target to confirm that the bullet strikes groups are offset that distance.

Parallel SIGHTS are my choice. Mostly because all I have to know is how my rifle shoots and what my hold-over and hold-under is for any distance. But, because I must answer for every bullet that heads downrange from my gun, it is PARTLY my choice because I can say with confidence that when I carefully aimed downrange, say at 75 yards, I could see where the bullet was going, and that nothing way, way downrange and off to the side was endangered by a bullet I should have known would arrive down there way left or right or above or below of what I was looking at. With parallel sights, you can quickly check that all of the sights, say the irons and a scope and the laser, look at exactly the same spot and thereby know that all the sights are good to go.
Link Posted: 2/7/2020 12:40:31 PM EST
[Last Edit: 2/7/2020 1:00:12 PM EST by TNVC_Augee]
Link Posted: 2/9/2020 8:18:03 PM EST
i don't know why this went on longer than it needed to

he said he was shooting no further than 50
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