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Posted: 5/22/2020 6:01:32 PM EDT
[#1]
An SBR or MG?
It's not an SBR if it's not in configuration. |
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Posted: 5/22/2020 6:12:23 PM EDT
[#2]
Short Barreled Rifle
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Posted: 5/22/2020 6:24:55 PM EDT
[#3]
And just two or three days ago some sbr dude here was thumbing his nose at AR Pistol owners.
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Posted: 5/22/2020 6:25:31 PM EDT
[#4]
Approved is approved. Have a good trip.
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Posted: 5/22/2020 8:27:21 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: An SBR or MG? It's not an SBR if it's not in configuration. +1 Even if you're legal I'd take the stock off just so Barney doesn't have a reason to be a dick Now, if it's going to be packed into a moving van behind the dinette set and your Dale Earnhardt commemorative plate collection I probably wouldn't worry about it |
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Posted: 5/22/2020 8:31:52 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Approved is approved. Have a good trip. Yep. I would travel. |
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Posted: 5/22/2020 8:35:25 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yep. I would travel. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Approved is approved. Have a good trip. Yep. I would travel. Zero proof is zero defense. I'm not willing to risk felony charges over someone's word. |
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Posted: 5/22/2020 8:47:29 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: +1 Even if you're legal I'd take the stock off just so Barney doesn't have a reason to be a dick Now, if it's going to be packed into a moving van behind the dinette set and your Dale Earnhardt commemorative plate collection I probably wouldn't worry about it Just put a 16" upper on it, and the short upper on a pistol lower...... |
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Posted: 5/22/2020 8:58:12 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Just put a 16" upper on it, and the short upper on a pistol lower...... He never said it was an AR, or variant |
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Posted: 5/22/2020 9:15:05 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: He never said it was an AR, or variant Fair enough. |
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Posted: 5/22/2020 10:05:12 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:Zero proof is zero defense. I'm not willing to risk felony charges over someone's word. It would be an unusual day when a police officer (enforcing state and local law) knows enough to ask about a 5320.20 after either seeing or being denied (your option) seeing the Form 4, Form 1, etc. If you want proof that you aren't committing a crime, then go ahead, but you don't need it to avoid breaking the law. Best advice is don't put yourself in a situation in which cops are searching your stuff. It isn't all that hard to avoid. |
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Posted: 5/22/2020 10:15:14 PM EDT
[#12]
I’d travel without a second thought, especially if I’m driving my own vehicle. It’s been approved. It’s not like you’re waiting on a stamp to arrive.
If it came down to it, somebody could call the ATF and confirm travel was approved. |
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Posted: 5/22/2020 11:41:57 PM EDT
[#13]
I am not real worried about the police issue, I am a current LEO. BUUUUT I have meet those but-head types that like to flaunt their believed authority and are natural born assholes. I am just a firm believer that if some else has to follow a law then I have to, even thought I don't like it. My problem with changing the upper is the SBR is registered with the NFA so it is controlled even with a 16" upper. What is the sense in having the 12.5" just to swap it out every time I want to take some where to shoot or train. My other rifle is a 20" M16A4 clone.
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Posted: 5/23/2020 8:54:05 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I am not real worried about the police issue, I am a current LEO. BUUUUT I have meet those but-head types that like to flaunt their believed authority and are natural born assholes. I am just a firm believer that if some else has to follow a law then I have to, even thought I don't like it. My problem with changing the upper is the SBR is registered with the NFA so it is controlled even with a 16" upper. What is the sense in having the 12.5" just to swap it out every time I want to take some where to shoot or train. My other rifle is a 20" M16A4 clone. You’re current LEO, but you don’t understand how the law works regarding NFA firearms. With a 16” upper, it’s not an SBR. You can travel with it without permission, hunt where SBRs aren’t allowed, and even sell it without any NFA paperwork. |
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Posted: 5/23/2020 9:16:01 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I am not real worried about the police issue, I am a current LEO. BUUUUT I have meet those but-head types that like to flaunt their believed authority and are natural born assholes. I am just a firm believer that if some else has to follow a law then I have to, even thought I don't like it. My problem with changing the upper is the SBR is registered with the NFA so it is controlled even with a 16" upper. What is the sense in having the 12.5" just to swap it out every time I want to take some where to shoot or train. My other rifle is a 20" M16A4 clone. It's not an SBR when not in configuration |
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Posted: 5/23/2020 10:01:49 AM EDT
[#16]
(You’re current LEO, but you don’t understand how the law works regarding NFA firearms.) My SBR is the first NFA item I had. Form 1 October. 2019. Never bothered anyone who owned NFA firearms because they are not the kind of people that cause trouble so I never checked the laws concerning them. Pa law classifies an SBR as a prohibited offensive weapon that may be owned if registered under the NFA.
2 hears ago I went to BATFE seminar and asked that question. The agent said unless the form is submitted to remove from the NFA it is always an SBR. |
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Posted: 5/23/2020 10:05:38 AM EDT
[#17]
To the guys that tryed to help me with my question. Thank you your insight is helpful. To the others that just want to make stupid comments fuck off.
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Posted: 5/23/2020 10:21:13 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: To the guys that tryed to help me with my question. Thank you your insight is helpful. To the others that just want to make stupid comments fuck off. I don't know who the "fuck off" was directed at, but you've been given a bunch of correct information in this thread. What that agent told you was incorrect. If a firearm does not meet the definition of a short barreled rifle, IT IS NOT A SBR. |
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Posted: 5/23/2020 10:22:44 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: (You’re current LEO, but you don’t understand how the law works regarding NFA firearms.) My SBR is the first NFA item I had. Form 1 October. 2019. Never bothered anyone who owned NFA firearms because they are not the kind of people that cause trouble so I never checked the laws concerning them. Pa law classifies an SBR as a prohibited offensive weapon that may be owned if registered under the NFA. 2 hears ago I went to BATFE seminar and asked that question. The agent said unless the form is submitted to remove from the NFA it is always an SBR. What he ment is it's still registered under the NFA and when it is in configuration it of course is an SBR subject to transportation restrictions. But if an SBR lower has a conventional upper on it, or no upper it absolutley is not an SBR.....but as soon as you put a short upper back on it, it's an SBR and your ducks better be in a row. I'll find some links to provide clarity for ya. |
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Posted: 5/23/2020 10:32:30 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What he ment is it's still registered under the NFA and when it is in configuration it of course is an SBR subject to transportation restrictions. But if an SBR lower has a conventional upper on it, or no upper it absolutley is not an SBR.....but as soon as you put a short upper back on it, it's an SBR and your ducks better be in a row. I'll find some links to provide clarity for ya. Section 2.5 of the ATF NFA handbook is what you're looking for. "Section 2.5 Removal of firearms from the scope of the NFA by modification/elimination of components. Firearms, except machineguns and silencers, that are subject to the NFA fall within the various definitions due to specific features. If the particular feature that causes a firearm to be regulated by the NFA is eliminated or modified, the resulting weapon is no longer an NFA weapon." |
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Posted: 5/23/2020 12:19:51 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: (You’re current LEO, but you don’t understand how the law works regarding NFA firearms.) My SBR is the first NFA item I had. Form 1 October. 2019. Never bothered anyone who owned NFA firearms because they are not the kind of people that cause trouble so I never checked the laws concerning them. Pa law classifies an SBR as a prohibited offensive weapon that may be owned if registered under the NFA. 2 hears ago I went to BATFE seminar and asked that question. The agent said unless the form is submitted to remove from the NFA it is always an SBR. That agent doesn’t know the law, or there was a misunderstanding between the question and answer. Without a short barrel, you can’t have a short-barreled rifle. You have a receiver, or a rifle, that just happens to be engraved with additional info (assuming you made it after filing a Form 1). Thus the rest of my answer you quote remains true. You can freely travel, hunt, and even sell it...just like you would any other non-NFA firearm. It’s always in the registry, even if you submit a letter...but it’s not always an NFA firearm. |
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Posted: 5/23/2020 12:23:11 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Section 2.5 of the ATF NFA handbook is what you're looking for. "Section 2.5 Removal of firearms from the scope of the NFA by modification/elimination of components. Firearms, except machineguns and silencers, that are subject to the NFA fall within the various definitions due to specific features. If the particular feature that causes a firearm to be regulated by the NFA is eliminated or modified, the resulting weapon is no longer an NFA weapon." Perfect...exactly what I was looking for |
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Posted: 5/23/2020 3:34:39 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Section 2.5 of the ATF NFA handbook is what you're looking for. "Section 2.5 Removal of firearms from the scope of the NFA by modification/elimination of components. Firearms, except machineguns and silencers, that are subject to the NFA fall within the various definitions due to specific features. If the particular feature that causes a firearm to be regulated by the NFA is eliminated or modified, the resulting weapon is no longer an NFA weapon." While that is generally correct, there are lots of errors in the now 13 year old NFA Handbook that are just outright incorrect. Nobody should rely on it. |
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Posted: 5/23/2020 3:44:41 PM EDT
[#24]
List of situations when I've been questioned about a tax stamp or a 5320.20:
A) My 5320.20 was approved over a month ago (4/22) and it has yet to show up. I will bring it on my trip without the paper copy. |
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Posted: 5/23/2020 7:23:29 PM EDT
[#25]
Just generally speaking: State laws and federal laws work somewhat independently of each other
If you slap a non-SBR upper on your SBR lower (and it satisfies all other state laws covering firearms) then it doesn't matter if it's on the NFA registry as far as the state cares |
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