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Posted: 5/31/2023 12:56:05 AM EDT
Back story, 15+ years ago I reloaded a few hundred rounds of 38 Special using Blue Dot powder pushing 158-grain plated bullets.  Alliant used to have a few 38/Blue Dot/158 recipes on their website, but not anymore. The loads were really inconsistent, and one day I had a squib load in my S&W 342.  Luckily I recognized it before firing another round.  I didn't shoot any of that ammo until recently.

I was looking for ways to increase the cylinder pressure, so I seated the bullets much deeper and then ran them through a carbide-sizing die.  A few days ago at the range, I fired about 80 or so through a S&W 686+, and the rounds seemed pretty stout, and consistent. Granted, this is highly subjective, especially from 15-year-old memories, but I'm convinced it made a clear difference.
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Link Posted: 5/31/2023 1:51:55 AM EDT
[#1]
That IS one way to radically drive up pressures, not a good way, but one way. I personally would have torn them down and reused the components differently, but hey, if it works...you are using a stout revolver, right?
Link Posted: 5/31/2023 2:37:45 AM EDT
[#2]
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...you are using a stout revolver, right?
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S&W 686+ 357 Magnum.  I wouldn't consider shooting these in the S&W 342, it's got a titanium cylinder, and will brutally bash your palm.
Link Posted: 5/31/2023 10:09:46 AM EDT
[#3]
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Quoted:  That IS one way to radically drive up pressures, not a good way, but one way. I personally would have torn them down and reused the components differently, but hey, if it works...you are using a stout revolver, right?
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How is it not a good way if it's consistent and reduces the chance of double charges?  The crimp is not very different from reloading a Nagant revolver.
Link Posted: 5/31/2023 10:20:38 AM EDT
[#4]
Well, wadcutters are seated flush and they are longer than many 158s. Of course, they are usually loaded a lot lighter to begin with.
Link Posted: 5/31/2023 11:49:16 AM EDT
[#5]
Reloading and shooting data based on feelz.  Gotcha.

Link Posted: 5/31/2023 12:11:40 PM EDT
[#6]
Link Posted: 5/31/2023 3:29:54 PM EDT
[#7]
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Quoted:
Reloading and shooting data based on feelz.  Gotcha.
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Reloading and shooting data based on feelz.  Gotcha.
Feel free to ship me your chronograph.
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I'll stick to published loads thanks.
A published load is what I used.
Link Posted: 5/31/2023 3:46:21 PM EDT
[#8]
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Quoted:
Feel free to ship me your chronograph.

A published load is what I used.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Reloading and shooting data based on feelz.  Gotcha.
Feel free to ship me your chronograph.
Quoted:
I'll stick to published loads thanks.


A published load is what I used.


A published load w/ recessed hollowpoints?  In what manual?
Link Posted: 5/31/2023 4:17:38 PM EDT
[#9]
compressed BLUEDOT seems like a recipe for a kaboomed J-frame to me

BLUEDOT gets spikey fast, they no longer recommend it for 125gr 357mag

 I recommend a faster burning powder, like win231 and a decent roll crimp

…and the published overall length


Link Posted: 5/31/2023 4:27:22 PM EDT
[#10]
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A published load w/ recessed hollowpoints?  In what manual?
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A published load w/ recessed hollowpoints?  In what manual?
They're not recessed.
It is therefore left up to the reloader to find the overall length, if he is loading singly for target shooting, which gives him the best accuracy.
Sierra Rifle Reloading Manual, 3rd Edition, Page 154
Experimentation with seating depths can help you achieve the best. In our loading data pages we list the maximum Cartridge Overall Length (C.O.L.) according to SAAMI specifications. Differences in manufacturing tolerances mean that your most accurate C.O.L. may differ from those published here.
Hornady Handbook of Cartridge Reloading, Volume 1, Sixth Edition, Page 63

Link Posted: 5/31/2023 6:58:06 PM EDT
[#11]
Well, if your desire is to raise chamber pressure, that'll giterdun
Link Posted: 5/31/2023 7:00:30 PM EDT
[#12]
It is therefore left up to the reloader to find the overall length, if he is loading singly for target shooting, which gives him the best accuracy.
Sierra Rifle Reloading Manual, 3rd Edition, Page 154

Experimentation with seating depths can help you achieve the best. In our loading data pages we list the maximum Cartridge Overall Length (C.O.L.) according to SAAMI specifications. Differences in manufacturing tolerances mean that your most accurate C.O.L. may differ from those published here.
Hornady Handbook of Cartridge Reloading, Volume 1, Sixth Edition, Page 63
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When they say experiment with seating depths they are talking in thousandths of an inch, not quarters of an inch
Link Posted: 5/31/2023 8:47:19 PM EDT
[#13]
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They're not recessed.
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Quoted:  A published load w/ recessed hollowpoints?  In what manual?


They're not recessed.


Apparently I need new trifocals:

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Link Posted: 5/31/2023 10:27:17 PM EDT
[#14]
I've never used blue dot but the case capacity is quite large I wonder if it really made a difference

I've seated some 124 9mm really deep in 38 casings and used a 38 loading with hs6. They didn't seem to be crazy pressured
Link Posted: 5/31/2023 11:55:36 PM EDT
[#15]
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Quoted:  I've never used blue dot but the case capacity is quite large I wonder if it really made a difference

I've seated some 124 9mm really deep in 38 casings and used a 38 loading with hs6. They didn't seem to be crazy pressured
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OP certainly raised the pressure - he's got a light .38 Special load in something like a .38 short Colt case.  In a .357 Magnum revolver, he's in no danger, and he's likely not popping primers.  He's probably getting more consistent ignition.

But it's in no way a book load.

I would so love a 5 shot .suppressed 38 Special Nagant w/ a titanium cylinder throwing Fiocchi wadcutters, wouldn't that be sweet?
Link Posted: 6/1/2023 12:58:08 AM EDT
[#16]
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The top of the hollow point sticks out beyond the case mouth by 0.063", C.O.L. is 1.215".
Quoted:
In a .357 Magnum revolver, he's in no danger, and he's likely not popping primers.  He's probably getting more consistent ignition.
The primers look normal, but flattened or cratered primers would be a very LATE sign in this caliber.
Quoted:
compressed BLUEDOT seems like a recipe for a kaboomed J-frame to me
Not disagreeing with your other points, but this load is not compressed.  If I push on the bullet tip very firmly with my bare hand, the bullet will slide deeper into the case.  As with any cartridge originally designed to use black powder, there's a lot of extra case volume when using smokeless powder.
Link Posted: 6/1/2023 2:27:47 AM EDT
[#17]
Nothing wrong with bluedot in 357. It was the idiot with a new pressure tester that didn't know what he was doing or seeing and relaying that info to Alliant that got them to put out the bluedot warning.

I know a bunch of guys that have shot kegs of bluedot in 357 and have never had a problem. But when a guy gets a new toy that the calibration was off tells everyone on the internet that he was having high pressures and everyone starts calling Alliant.  They just put out a warning to stop all the calls. But that is a whole another story in of itself.

This is what I was told anyway
Link Posted: 6/1/2023 9:16:14 PM EDT
[#18]
And deep seating bullets in straightwall cases is an old, old practice. Properly done it isn't risky at all.
Link Posted: 6/1/2023 9:49:39 PM EDT
[#19]
Link Posted: 6/1/2023 10:29:45 PM EDT
[#20]
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Holy "flying ashtray", Batman!!!

Did not know they were still a thing
Link Posted: 6/1/2023 11:22:29 PM EDT
[#21]
BE CAREFUL....

My old Speer Reload manual, Number 11, had a very scary warning in the 9mm Para data.   To paraphrase, loads that generated 28,000 CUP went to 62,000 CUP when bullets were seated .030" deeper.  That is an insane pressure increase, due solely and exclusively to seating depth changes.   The 9mm has a relatively small internal volume, so small changes in seating depth mean reductions in internal volume, and pressure spikes....

Your 38 Spl cases aren't 9mm cases.  The 38 has a HUGE internal volume (compared to 9x19).  It was designed for blackpowder, and has volume enough for a triple, maybe even a quad load of powder.  Minor differences in seating depth shouldn't cause pressure spikes as dramatic as those noted in the Speer 9mm warning.  However, you're 'reseated' loads aren't bumping bullets 0.030" or even 0.040" deeper.   You're  reseating bullets something on the order of 1/4", 3/8" deeper. maybe more.  I'm no ballistician, but I have a VERY strong suspicion your reseated loads have DRAMATICALLY increased in pressure.

Yeah.  We do load bullets like 148 HBWC deeply within 38 SPL cases.  However, the available data was developed with that specified seating depth in mind, and 38 HBWC loads are virtually always light target loads.  You could start low, and work up loads with a deep seated bullet, and with a chronograph could easily achieve safe levels....      However, this reseating isn't informed, educated load development.  Its uninformed "lets just cram it deeper and let er rip" reloading...

I am not trying to flame, or be critical or condescending.  I am trying to be helpful.  I strongly suspect your 'reseats' aren't "just a little bit hotter".  You've taken the remaining internal combustion volume of the original load, and reduced it by half, perhaps more...   To use an analogy, This is almost a little bit like "I had a really good load worked up for 100 grain bullets.  They seemed safe, but I just pulled them and seated 180 grainers over the same charge" kinds of dramatic change in loading specifications....   I would to be surprised in the least if your previously mild underpowered squib load is now treading into proof load pressures...   Act accordingly...   Your hands, eyes, face, and firearm are at risk...  




Link Posted: 6/2/2023 9:33:42 AM EDT
[#22]
To bad you don't have the charge weight because it would be interesting to compare it to dewc charges.
Link Posted: 6/2/2023 12:36:55 PM EDT
[#23]
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To bad you don't have the charge weight because it would be interesting to compare it to dewc charges.
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You know, I shot all but a few of these with Blue Dot in them, and then I wrote over the label with a pen.  Now I can't make out the old writing that shows the charge weight.  
Link Posted: 6/2/2023 5:22:00 PM EDT
[#24]
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You know, I shot all but a few of these with Blue Dot in them, and then I wrote over the label with a pen.  Now I can't make out the old writing that shows the charge weight.  
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Can we assume your going to work up a load and maintain documentation if you ever attempt to deep seat bullets again?
Link Posted: 6/6/2023 3:32:08 AM EDT
[#25]
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Quoted:

How is it not a good way if it's consistent and reduces the chance of double charges?  The crimp is not very different from reloading a Nagant revolver.
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It might be completely safe...but speaking for me, like I said, I would have torn them down and started over.
Link Posted: 6/12/2023 5:35:23 PM EDT
[#26]
oops
Link Posted: 6/15/2023 9:23:36 AM EDT
[#27]
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You know, I shot all but a few of these with Blue Dot in them, and then I wrote over the label with a pen.  Now I can't make out the old writing that shows the charge weight.  
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I have two notebooks for ALL my loads,  The first is a 5x8 surveyors data book.  It dates back to 1993.   The second is a school composition notebook that I started using for precision rifle loads to log more data points.   Dates to circa 2005.

It behooves you to keep records.  Also to keep your reloads labeled.  I some times fail here, leaving ammo in mags too long that I forgot which lot they were.

I can often answer a reloader’s question by going to my books and pulling out loads that worked for me, sometimes even chronographed.   The load and data might be from the 90’s but I still have it.   I still have targets from my pre logbook  work.  Well it was loose leaf notes in a binder on old Cobol programming format sheets.  Yea, I am that old.  Anyways, even then it was crude logging of data.  A binder of loads and targets of a specific rifle (M700 varmint .22-250)
Link Posted: 6/15/2023 10:40:53 AM EDT
[#28]
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Quoted:
The top of the hollow point sticks out beyond the case mouth by 0.063", C.O.L. is 1.215".The primers look normal, but flattened or cratered primers would be a very LATE sign in this caliber.Not disagreeing with your other points, but this load is not compressed.  If I push on the bullet tip very firmly with my bare hand, the bullet will slide deeper into the case.  As with any cartridge originally designed to use black powder, there's a lot of extra case volume when using smokeless powder.
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That’s what I was remembering (not looking at a book) that .38 SPLC target loads are mild 9mm loads, when using the same fast burning flake powder.  I wouldn’t be skeered of this in a N frame that you are using.  It’s clear you have ample experience to recognize if things get hinky.
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