Getting ready to dive into the world of full auto and doing some research. I was originally interested in a RDIAS, but they seem hard to find and seem to require fitment and tuning with whatever receiver you drop them into.


Now I'm looking at Registered Receivers. My budget is around $25K, but not sure what to look for. I ultimately want to drop a belt-fed upper onto this thing. Any advice? Looking for recommendations on reputable dealers, key features/options I should look out for, and any brands to avoid.

Call a FA dealer, ATF man.

Lol, any recommended FA dealers?

Ruben Mendiola at https://dealernfa.com/

In the world of registered receivers you have two basic types.  Colt factory M16's and conversion guns.  Generally, an original colt will cost you about 5-10k more than a like converted receiver.  A converted receiver is a good option, but just remember someone machined the FCG and auto sear hole, so you want to make sure it was done right.  Also, many receivers back pre 86 were not exactly the same.  The forgings were slightly more rough, sometimes the FCG was not machined correctly, selector not straight, buffer detent too close to fcg pocket,  etc.  Nearly all of this is verifiable by just bringing a spec upper and pinning it on.  Always pin on your own upper, don't just assume it's correct.  There's also machinists that can correct any issues.  Usually, whoever you buy from has already had this work done.

Already good info in this thread.  If you are buying your first one stick with reputable dealers and you should get what you want.  M16s are like:

Original Colt marked M16
Modified AR15s of various makes

From a good dealer both should be good to go.

I own a coverted SP1.  I recently changed the upper to a DD shorty and the only difference I see is a really tight fit.  I have to relax the oversize front pin to get the upper to open.  Otherwise - shoots just fine.

As mentioned above dealernfa.com is gtg.  I just bought an MP5 from Ruben.  You might pay a 10% premium over buying from an individual on the net but Ruben doesn't sell crap as far as I know.

Avoid converted SP1's due to the front pivot/takedown business.....no sense in paying a premium for a Colt logo on a converted lower

I'd look for a pre-86 converted "stop sign" SGW, Sendra, Sendra/RIA, or PAWS lower.

The very early SGW (Palmetto/Frankford) lowers you sometimes find for sale seem to have dimensional issues, as well as soft pin holes...even though they are machined from billet.

The cast EA lowers that show up seem to do OK....but they are cast....and the aesthetics/markings are hideous.

@vengarr

Mind sharing the buffer/spring details for your upper? I'm looking at getting one for my M16.

I recently purchased my SAW/Oly lower from a private party. Felt like I got a good deal at $17,500.

Saw a couple other conversions offered private party for $18k, 19k and 20k.

Ruben had two conversions, one for $21k and one for $22k.

I made an offer on a Colt 614 at $21,500 and got turned down. Asking was $24,500. I would have done $23k for the 614. Saw another 614 at a large dealer for $23,500, but the forging was a bit rough near the S/N markings.

Colt 614 seems to be a good option if you want Colt.  They aren't marked up as much as M16A1's but they're functionally equivalent.

I knew I wanted a lower with normal holes and fence lines, so SP1 conversions were out.

EA lowers just look wierd with their cast lines. So I didn't want one. Might be able to get one for $16k if the looks don't bother you.

With the fightlite spring or something else?

I've seen a lot of guys like cut down MG34 springs.

It’s the Spikes T3 with the fightlite spring

If you want a shooter get a Olympic arms conversion, should be able to get one for $17-20k.

A colt marked m16 will run you $22-30k depending on model. Personally I don’t think it’s worth the premium but some ppl want to be able to say they have the real deal.

For your first purchase buy from a reputable dealer. I recommend Frank from Midwest tactical, his prices are very competitive and he is the largest MG dealer in the country.

It’s hard to go wrong either way, as the M16 makes for a fantastic first MG. It’s super versatile and one of only a handful of transferable MGs you can own as a civilian that are still standard issue military weapons.

He is a dealer with premium prices..  Just saying.

Head over to Sturmgewehr forum and look at their NFA Marketplace.  Lots of good stuff they sell there.  You really get a idea who are the dealers there and major collectors.

For the amount you have a Fightlite upper would work with any M16 or FA AR15.  Keep a eye out whether they have a large or a small hole takedown pins (ie Colt SP1). You want a small hole.. But if you do get the large hole, I have a solution for thisany case fightlite uppers are expensive.

Some AR15 you have to watch out for out of spec issues that really SUCK.  I think Sentara and Olympic may have that issue.. But I don't remember (do your research)
Also for look out for oval holes from FA usage which can occur to all, but there are fixes for this..


For pricing.. Colt SP1 can be had for $16k to $18k. I have a post here for making the large hole takedown pin be a quick change using KNS pins and small hole adapters.  PM me if you want more details.

Well, first and best advice on buying F/A that I received is to "think about it, and buy what you want."  At the time I was given that advice I was torn between an M-16 and an MP5-style gun, now I have both and don't have to agonize over it.

You mention wanting a belt-fed upper, that isn't the shallow end of the F/A pool and carries significant costs (in gear and ammo) and it is a "certain kind" of fun in that it is all about converting money into noise and destruction.

If what you really want is a belt-fed at some point, then I tend to think an M-16 style gun is one of the worst ways to get there.  An HK sear would give you the fun of an MP5 (for my money, the most fun F/A gun and shoots (what used to be) cheap 9mm ammo) and you could drop it in a Michael's Machines (MM) belt-fed HK-clone later in either 7.62 or 5.56 when finances permitted it.  But that would require about 7k more than you are looking to spend today for the sear, then around 2k for a clone to shoot it in.  When belt-fed time comes 12-13k for the MM gun.

If it is all belt-fed all the time, then picking up an M-60 is an option.  But that is even more extra money, but in exchange you get an actual LMG.  Which, if that is what you want, is what you need to get.

I think M-16s are awesome at 5.56, have tons of lego parts to configure and re-configure, and there are pretty serviceable .22 conversions for even cheaper fun (albeit with some cleaning overhead).

At the end of the day, for maximum versatility it is hard to beat an HK sear.  Goes from sub-gun to belt-fed configurations and does an excellent job at every level.  If you are okay without the pistol caliber option, then M-16 is awesome but the belt-fed experience is going to be a compromise (in that it will be a "non-native" configuration for the gun) and M-16 belt fed conversions aren't cheap either.  Finally, if you really want the belt fed experience, then maybe you need to keep saving and get that belt fed dream gun.

I think the good news for you is that prices are pretty flat in the MG world, and not likely to go much higher with all the COVID economic impact, high housing prices, and easy money in the stock market.  So you have some time to think about it...

You certainly make a couple of good points but a HK sear with a clone 23E is close to double the money of M16 conversion with a Fitelite upper. Don't get me wrong, I loved my Fleming sear and the 25 host guns I have for it. Is the 23E clone a more robust belt fed than the M16 conversion with the Fitelite upper, absolutely. It should be for the difference in price.

I have owned a Colt M16, the Lightning Link and a DIAS. I still have the DIAS. Why, the ultimate versatility. If I  was going into harm's way, the Colt M16 is the gun I would want. My Colt gun always ran great. The limiting factor is the magwell. That is why I still have the DIAS. The MGI/Windham Weaponry modulator magwell system works great with the Valkyrie Armaments belt fed system. But that is another story.

OP, I don't know your budget or real desires. It is not hard to set up a DIAS. Check quarterbore.com for DIAS timing. If what you really want is a belt fed, how much are you going to shoot it? I have heard that big volume use of the Fitelite/Shrike belt fed can be hard on the barrel extension threads. The AR-15/M16 was not made for the spring tension required to strip rounds from belted ammo. The bolt group requires a very strong spring to strip the rounds from the belt.  So the bolt group needs extra energy into the bolt group to overcome the stronger recoil spring. If an M16 was really up to the task, the Government would be buying Fitelite uppers. SOCCOM might have some, but the big Army isn't buying them. Could you run a Fitelite upper some and get away with it?  I would certainly think so. Of course when you are talking about the M16 conversions there could be quality issues to start with, so putting a belt fed system on a conversion M16 RR might put excess stress on the RR conversion. Good luck with your machinegun purchase project.

Scott

That's who I went with and it was a flawless deal. After doing my research I decided to get a Sendra vs a Colt and have been extremely happy with it

Mind sharing how long ago and how much you paid?

PAWS/ OLY is a factory MG

As are some Group Industries M16s - for example, the Group Industries stainless steel M16 lowers, of which only 101 or 110, depending on who you believe, were made.

MHO, YMMV, etc.  Be well.

Mine was # A002x.  Paid all of $850 for it June ‘91. Let it go January ‘93.  
Bought a Colt M16A1 from Kent Lomont May ‘94 for $2400.

Those were the days.  I should stop flipping through my old bound book.

OP: Whatever you do, build a 22 rimfire upper for it.  Once you have an M16, all your friends will want to shoot it, even those who have neither fired a gun nor have any interest in guns.  With the 22 they get all the fun of full auto but you need not worry the uninitiated will have trouble controlling it.  Plus they will burn through ammo like drunken sailors.  The 22 makes their experience affordable.

Got any recommendations for a .22 setup?

this.....
Ruben is the Gold Standard in dealers.

Use a dedicated 22 barrel like CMMG along with their bolt assembly and automatic sear trip.  A 223/5.56 barrel leads up quickly because of the (large for 22 rimfire) bore diameter.  Back then we just had the Ceiner conversion for 5.56 barrels.  Very reliable, but meant for the 223 chamber.  I had a friend with a lathe and a mind for problem solving.  I bought a shot out barrel, and a 22 liner and bore drill from Brownells.  He cut the Ceiner’s chamber insert off, drilled the conversion kit to accept the liner and silver soldered the liner into place.  He drilled the old barrel to accept the 22 rimfire liner and pressed a brass sleeve into the front of the AR barrel.  He then turned the liner to slip fit into the brass sleeve.  Voila, a dedicated 22 rimfire barrel for an M16. CCMG now makes this very simple.

22 rimfire liner

Liner drill

Yup.  Bought an MP5 from Ruben in August.  Sent him a check on my investment account.  I think he shipped to my dealer before it even cleared.  Now in ATF purgatory awaiting the lord governments permission to take my property home.

I bought a PAWS/OLY for that reason. The receiver was out of spec.  Had Victor at US Anodizing blueprint it.  Works fine now.
I also have a Bushmaster (BFI) built on an EA (cast) receiver.  Perfect with every upper I've every tried.

Save yourself some hassle and just buy a complete CMMG .22 upper.

https://cmmginc.com/product-category/uppers-and-lowers/uppers-uppers-and-lowers/?orderby=popularity&filter_caliber=22lr

Then you need the sear trip/anti-bounce weight.

https://cmmginc.com/product/auto-sear-trip-kit-22arc/

Lastly, you need some magazines.

https://cmmginc.com/product/magazine-22arc-grey-25rd/

Note: on magazines, you have other choices and I just linked to the CMMG site as I had it open.

You can use Blackdog magazines too.  I particularly like their 50 round drums.

You can also use S&W 15-22 magazines but will need a Better-Mag adapter.
Note: Last I saw, you had to mill off a tiny bit on the top back of the Better-Mag adapter to use it in a full auto gun as it rubs on the trip.