Im only 49, but I was thinking about retirement whilst cleaning my C&R rifles - Page 1

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Im only 49, but I was thinking about retirement whilst cleaning my C&R rifles

Posted: 10/13/2018 9:13:30 AM EDT

.....and was wondering how many of you actually consider your collection as a integral part of your retirement income.

I've had this thought before, but haven't sought out the views of others.
Thinking it would be cool to amass $20,000 in todays value of WWII rifles and pistols to enjoy, shoot, research, and when I'm older, use the income from selling them to travel the globe.
I'm not talking about cashing out anything else and dropping $20,000 at once or even in a couple years, but just doing what we normally do, look for deals like 75% or 50% value price and slowly amassing a large asset. Full price purchase for something shiny we REEEEEALLY desire. :-)

Are there any other hobbies that you can get as much joy out of that go up so much in value? Maybe silver-stacking, but certainly not as fun.

*I work in the firearms industry so the "buying with the intention of selling for profit" is a non-issue. (Not sure if it is for C&R anyway. Don't care either way).

Posted: 10/13/2018 10:00:34 AM EDT

[#1]

$20k is chump change when it comes to retirement. You’d be lucky to get 6 months out of it.

People think their expenses go down with retirement, but they rarely ever do. People trade income for travel and entertainment.

Being said, when I got married and could no longer find room for my collection, I sold off half of it and likely grossed between 15 and 20k.

Money was gone quickly. I still have about 100. Someday they will go, too.

I see no reason for my collection to outlive me. It will need to be broken up, new homes found, and the fun remembered.

Off all the guns I have purchased over the years, 300+, I regretted very few purchases. I didn’t lose money on more than 5 I sold. Some I go nothing for but then I didn’t sell them. I gave away a good number of Mosins and Turks to kids and friends who I wanted to have a gun. They were $40 at the time.

Posted: 10/13/2018 10:34:02 AM EDT

[#2]

What the hell are you going to do with $20k in retirement ?

Going through it now with parents. $220-$370+ a day for full time care. Dam few insurance policy’s that most people can afford cover full time care. In home or a facility.
Run the house $45k/year minimum. In home health care help 24/7. $12k/month.

Dropping dead is a gift ! Stuck in a chair or bed staring at the TV is a sentence !

The gun business is very fickle. Hot one day cold the next. Invest money you “need” in traditional retirement type financial endeavors.
If you have $20k+ you don’t need..? Hookers and Blow is as good as anything for a memory while waiting to die !

Posted: 10/13/2018 4:48:43 PM EDT

[#3]

LOL, nobody can retire on $20,000
I was talking about it being PART OF the retirement.

It’s an arbitrary number. Let’s say 10% of your net retirement funds.

Posted: 10/13/2018 7:50:34 PM EDT

[#4]

If you don't have more than 500K get ready to work weekends at HD.

In fact, you really need 1 million since a million won't buy nearly what it used to.

I remember when I was a kid. A millionaire was wealthy. In today's economy, it has the buying power of 250K now.

Inflation has wrecked retirement.

Posted: 10/13/2018 9:34:32 PM EDT

[#5]

There is so many better ways to invest $20,000.

Let's take one of the modern pistols that has jumped in value lately, the HK P7. When that came out, it was a $1000 gun. They're now worth...about the same. A P7M8 sells for more. It was maybe $1200? new in 1983. Now they're maybe $2500? Guess how much $1200 in 1983 dollars is today? About $3100.

Now you make the argument that you can enjoy them while you sit on them. Well, anytime you shoot a collectible, you either lower the value or risk damaging/destroying it. And you need to go through the trouble and expense of storing it in a manner that will keep it preserved.

You're much better off investing $20,000 in a mutual fund (ideally a Roth IRA if you fall in the earnings requirements).

Posted: 10/14/2018 6:50:18 AM EDT

[#6]

Quote History

Quoted:
There is so many better ways to invest $20,000.

Let's take one of the modern pistols that has jumped in value lately, the HK P7. When that came out, it was a $1000 gun. They're now worth...about the same. A P7M8 sells for more. It was maybe $1200? new in 1983. Now they're maybe $2500? Guess how much $1200 in 1983 dollars is today? About $3100.

Now you make the argument that you can enjoy them while you sit on them. Well, anytime you shoot a collectible, you either lower the value or risk damaging/destroying it. And you need to go through the trouble and expense of storing it in a manner that will keep it preserved.

You're much better off investing $20,000 in a mutual fund (ideally a Roth IRA if you fall in the earnings requirements).

View Quote

So you think taking a bolt action rifle that has been through 1 or 2 world wars will lower in value if you take it to the range and put some rounds through it?

I already have 2 traditional IRAs, 1 maxed out Roth every year, 1 Roth for my wife, REIT, 529 for the kids, stocks, metals, crypto,
I never put my eggs in one basket.

The 5 Mosins for $200 turned out to be a good return so far.

Posted: 10/14/2018 7:54:39 AM EDT

[#7]

Most guns do not beat the stock market. I have bought one gun for an investment. My uncle about made me take it. He was liquidating some of his stuff. It is valued at ten times what I paid. The rest, who knows, but I doubt much more than I gave.

Posted: 10/14/2018 8:11:42 AM EDT

[#8]

The Key to retirement - unless you are loaded - is to have several revenue streams coming in. 401K, SS, IRA, Pension, part time work, etc, etc, etc.

If you don't have that or access to a million bucks, retirement will not be all that fun. Just the way it is....

Posted: 10/14/2018 10:10:54 AM EDT

[#9]

I don't consider them from that perspective, but I do consider them a very conservative investment (not too different from precious metals) that is safe but won't make me rich. It also doubles as a emergency fund that I can have fun with.

Posted: 10/14/2018 10:37:03 AM EDT

[#10]

Quote History

Quoted:
The Key to retirement - unless you are loaded - is to have several revenue streams coming in. 401K, SS, IRA, Pension, part time work, etc, etc, etc.

If you don't have that or access to a million bucks, retirement will not be all that fun. Just the way it is....

View Quote

Yup, got that covered. :-)

Posted: 10/14/2018 1:24:12 PM EDT

[#11]

Quote History

Quoted:

So you think taking a bolt action rifle that has been through 1 or 2 world wars will lower in value if you take it to the range and put some rounds through it?

View Quote

Yes and no. No, firing a used surplus won't generally impact its value. However, you run risks. Go fire modern .30-06 though your Garand without modifying the gas. What happens to your minty SMLE if you get a double charged round (ok, the SMLE might handle it better than many), or your SVT that squibs while you're shooting quickly and don't realize fast enough?

Which is why my post said:
"Well, anytime you shoot a collectible, you either lower the value or risk damaging/destroying it."

If you shoot a NIB P7M8 Jubilee, guess what? You've lowered the collector value. You shoot C&R you risk damage.

Posted: 10/14/2018 5:13:31 PM EDT

[#12]

Quote History

Quoted:
There is so many better ways to invest $20,000.

Let's take one of the modern pistols that has jumped in value lately, the HK P7. When that came out, it was a $1000 gun. They're now worth...about the same. A P7M8 sells for more. It was maybe $1200? new in 1983. Now they're maybe $2500? Guess how much $1200 in 1983 dollars is today? About $3100.

Now you make the argument that you can enjoy them while you sit on them. Well, anytime you shoot a collectible, you either lower the value or risk damaging/destroying it. And you need to go through the trouble and expense of storing it in a manner that will keep it preserved.

You're much better off investing $20,000 in a mutual fund (ideally a Roth IRA if you fall in the earnings requirements).

View Quote

Now let's try the same numbers but change it to my Vector Uzi. I bought 2 in 1999-2000 for $2700 each. Today they are worth $13-14,000. The inflation calculator says $4112 for $2750 in 2000

Posted: 10/15/2018 1:31:50 AM EDT

[#13]

Comparing transferable full-autos to collectibles/C&R is not apples to apples.

Posted: 10/15/2018 7:20:49 AM EDT

[#14]

Quote History

Quoted:

If you shoot a NIB P7M8 Jubilee, guess what? You've lowered the collector value. You shoot C&R you risk damage.

View Quote

I'm talking about $89 Mosins and $400 Mausers.
If you dont know what you are doing in gun collecting, you should try a different hobby.

I have stacks of rare Colt AR-15 all still new unfired in their birth-bags. I don't shoot those.

I'm talking about rifles that have been dropped in muddy trenched for decades. You wont hurt the value by even .01 by taking it to the range.

Posted: 10/15/2018 3:45:23 PM EDT

[#15]

Well I stand corrected. You're on your way to owning a small island in the Caribbean. I just hope you invite all your arfcom friends to vacation. I can't wait to dive from your live-aboard.

Posted: 10/15/2018 4:31:58 PM EDT

[#16]

Nope... My guns are for shooting and eventually passing to my kids.

Their value doesn't factor into my thinking any farther than "can I afford another one?"

Posted: 10/16/2018 8:37:39 AM EDT

[#17]

I got my answer. The answer is "No"

I'll let ya'll know what I do with the money from my guns as I sell them when I'm owld.

Posted: 10/17/2018 4:00:25 PM EDT

[#18]

Quote History

Quoted:
I got my answer. The answer is "No"

I'll let ya'll know what I do with the money from my guns as I sell them when I'm owld.

View Quote

I tracked what you were asking originally. As someone pointed out, though, when you figure in inflation, guns don't really appreciate well, even if they're collectible. The only guns that are solid investments are those with some provenance or genuine rarity. Even then, "rare" doesn't always = valuable. I just don't see any type of gun that was manufactured in any quantity (i.e., Garands, carbines, etc.) appreciating faster than inflation, absent provenance. I know we've all heard "guns don't lose their value", which is only true to a very limited degree, but they're still not well-performing investments in most cases.

Posted: 10/17/2018 9:33:42 PM EDT

[#19]

No. I intend to pass them on to my kids... assuming they have an interest in them.

Posted: 10/18/2018 6:00:04 AM EDT

[#20]

Quote History

Quoted:

I'm talking about $89 Mosins and $400 Mausers.
If you dont know what you are doing in gun collecting, you should try a different hobby.

I have stacks of rare Colt AR-15 all still new unfired in their birth-bags. I don't shoot those.

I'm talking about rifles that have been dropped in muddy trenched for decades. You wont hurt the value by even .01 by taking it to the range.

View Quote

I have stacks of rare Colt AR-15s too. I have some very rare Colts that aren't in the blue book.

Second hand you might get $600 for anything from an R6600 green label to an LE6940 right now regardless of configuration if you had to cash out fast due to an unforeseen event.

And those not listed in the blue book? Those with no sales data or even an old listing to look at on Gunbroker? Something "Off" about the rifle in hand vs the Blue book description regardless of how the rifle shipped from Colt? Shop is going to pass hard because it might be a fake.

Guns are toys unless you're kicking doors for a living or in the business of dealing guns for a living. Using guns as your retirement account is a very foolish plan.

Life is short. Plan accordingly.

Posted: 10/18/2018 7:37:48 AM EDT

[#21]

Quote History

Quoted:

I have stacks of rare Colt AR-15s too. I have some very rare Colts that aren't in the blue book.

Second hand you might get $600 for anything from an R6600 green label to an LE6940 right now regardless of configuration if you had to cash out fast due to an unforeseen event.

And those not listed in the blue book? Those with no sales data or even an old listing to look at on Gunbroker? Something "Off" about the rifle in hand vs the Blue book description regardless of how the rifle shipped from Colt? Shop is going to pass hard because it might be a fake.

Guns are toys unless you're kicking doors for a living or in the business of dealing guns for a living. Using guns as your retirement account is a very foolish plan.

Life is short. Plan accordingly.

View Quote

Can I buy a couple of your 6600s for $600ea?

I'll pass some of my sentimental guns down to my kids, but most I'll sell off to fund trips to Europe in my retirement.

Posted: 10/18/2018 11:55:05 AM EDT

[#22]

I suggest the OP retire in the woods, under a tarp, living off ‘shrooms and squirrels. 20k will last plenty

Posted: 10/18/2018 12:40:53 PM EDT

[#23]

Quote History

Quoted:
I suggest the OP retire in the woods, under a tarp, living off ‘shrooms and squirrels. 20k will last plenty

View Quote

$20K is for my bar tab when I'm retired.

Posted: 10/19/2018 7:04:16 AM EDT

[#24]

I consider a firearms collection just another "hard" asset when calculating net worth. They are subject to ups and downs in the market, so don't over evaluate based on a ban price. My advice is own, enjoy them, if needed sell some. but don't count on it as a huge return on investment, but rather it can be at best hedging against a loss. You might make money on a few, but likely won't lose too much money on them while owning them.

Hard assets at least don't disappear (like a vacation, or depreciate as much as a car or other sports consumables) and provide some joy of ownership in the time you own them.

Posted: 11/17/2018 10:29:46 PM EDT

[#25]

IMO, counting on firearms (regardless of age or type) for any sort of 'income' or 'revenue' in the future is a very bad idea. With the pen of a legislator and a signature, your $20K collection (or $200K collection) could become worthless overnight. Might not seem like a possibility right now, but who knows what the political landscape will look like in 10 years... 20 years...

Treat your personal firearms as something to collect, use, enjoy, share and potentially pass down to your children - but not as any sort of income source.

Posted: 11/17/2018 11:23:42 PM EDT

[#26]

My kids really don't have an interest in my guns.

So, I guess when I get older and feeble, I'll just sell them. If I croak before my wife, she knows where to sell my guns and the minimum she should get. So. I really don't look at them as retirement income.

Posted: 11/21/2018 7:16:03 AM EDT

[#27]

I consider my collection of over 100 firearms to merely part of my hard assets, to consider in overall net worth but not part of retirement, its not a vehicle for retirement. Heck I want to retire to spend more time acquiring guns - hunting them down in small shops, shows, etc. If I die or get incapacitated, the family can sell them off or enjoy them as they wish. In this way the money/investment hasn't all evaporated.

Posted: 11/25/2018 12:49:19 PM EDT

[#28]

Quote History

Quoted:

Can I buy a couple of your 6600s for $600ea?

I'll pass some of my sentimental guns down to my kids, but most I'll sell off to fund trips to Europe in my retirement.

View Quote

You wouldn't be far off what I paid for them right before the second panic.

Back when you couldn't give a carry handle Colt rifle away.

Posted: 11/25/2018 6:46:00 PM EDT

[#29]

I turn 61 next year and, will probably retire. I plan on selling a number of guns, ammo, and accessories. I just have picked up too much over the years. I talking about CMP Garands, M-1 carbine, Browning HP, CZ-75 PCR, 7.62x54R cans. etc. And, tons of mags!

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Im only 49, but I was thinking about retirement whilst cleaning my C&R rifles

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