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Originally Posted By IndyGrendel63:
Originally Posted By jlow:
It’s not easier or faster or slower, but it is more expensive. Don’t see any way that the bling would affect accuracy except maybe psychologically speaking of course. The bling to me is not so important, what is important to me is the ability to completely avoid the lead laden dust from the tumbling media, and from reaming the primer pocket for precision rounds. All this stuff stays in the water and goes down the drain. The primer pocket does come out cleaner that any method I know of, so perhaps some effect on accuracy/precision.....LOL! So you don't want to breathe in the lead primer dust from the primer pocket, but you are willing to simply just wash it all down the drain into the sanitary sewer system and then back out into the environment. I do like the clean brass, but like others that have posted I don't see the big advantage. Been using a vibratory cleaner for many years with very good results and zero issues. I have been thinking about using a dust mask when doing primer pockets but I have yet to implement this in my routine. Yip, it’s got to go somewhere and down the drain is the best way I know of. Of course, it is not ideal but I honestly don’t know of any better way. The old say “those that live in glass houses should not throw stones”, so I did not see you volunteer a more environmentally friendly way. BTW, how exactly do you dispose of your lead laden media and primer dust? |
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Originally Posted By tothemax:
Ok this may be a dumb question but why wont SS media work in a vibrating tumbler? Does it just not move the media around enough for it to work well? Not a dumb question. The reason why it does not work is because you need to suspend the SS media in water and the regular vibrating tumbler cannot take the weight of the SS media/water/brass. |
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Originally Posted By jlow:
Originally Posted By tothemax:
Ok this may be a dumb question but why wont SS media work in a vibrating tumbler? Does it just not move the media around enough for it to work well? Not a dumb question. The reason why it does not work is because you need to suspend the SS media in water and the regular vibrating tumbler cannot take the weight of the SS media/water/brass. Ah copy that. I guess I missed the part about the water. |
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Proud Member - "Team Ranstad" - The Fantastic Bastards! |
Originally Posted By jlow:
BTW, how exactly do you dispose of your lead laden media and primer dust?[/span] Where did you come up with this "lead laden" thing? Do you have a source for this? |
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Originally Posted By Eric802:
Originally Posted By jlow:
BTW, how exactly do you dispose of your lead laden media and primer dust?[/span] Where did you come up with this "lead laden" thing? Do you have a source for this? The lead can comes from exposed parts of bullets and from the primers. According to Bill Chevalier in “The ABC’S of Reloading”, page 15 and 44, the modern primers are of the lead, barium, and antimony type and that there are lead-free primers, but they are not yet available for reloaders but comes in certain commercially loaded rounds. So when you fire your rounds, it comes out in the smoke but is also deposited in that black powder that coats the inside of your brass. With that in mind, when you clean your brass with any type of media (SS, corn corb, walnut, etc), some or all of it will come off and either get into the water (ss media), or into the media itself (i.e. corn corb, walnut). The problem with the latter is that the media can as you know generate a fine dust which is readily inhaled and deposited inside your lungs which is very bad as the lead will accumulate in your body. Children are particularly susceptible to lead poisoning and so greater care needs to be taken to avoid exposure. |
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Originally Posted By jlow:
With that in mind, when you clean your brass with any type of media (SS, corn corb, walnut, etc), some or all of it will come off and either get into the water (ss media), or into the media itself (i.e. corn corb, walnut). The problem with the latter is that the media can as you know generate a fine dust which is readily inhaled and deposited inside your lungs which is very bad as the lead will accumulate in your body. Children are particularly susceptible to lead poisoning and so greater care needs to be taken to avoid exposure.[/span] This was my primary reason for choosing the wet method since I have young kids in the house. The secondary reason was that once the primers are removed you can tumble it and the primer pockets are 100% cleaned. |
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Make yourself sheep and the wolves will eat you. --Benjamin Franklin
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I know where lead comes from. I'm asking where you come up with idea that tumbling media becomes "lead laden". Since it really doesn't do a great job of either cleaning the inside of the cases or the primer pockets, where's all this lead coming from?
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Originally Posted By Eric802:
I know where lead comes from. I'm asking where you come up with idea that tumbling media becomes "lead laden". Since it really doesn't do a great job of either cleaning the inside of the cases or the primer pockets, where's all this lead coming from? It’s basically a 1+1=2 type situation. If the brass is covered inside with a coating of powder that is contaminated with lead, every time you tumble it with the media, apart from polishing the brass, it will polish the inside where the powder deposit is and so some of it has to come off and coat the media, this is why your media gets “dirty”. The more you tumble, the more lead gets into the media, there is no possible way around this as it is basically a reservoir for this contaminant thus the conclusion that it is “lead laden”. This conclusion does not require any leap of faith whereas thinking that none of the lead comes out and contaminates the media would require a great leap of faith. I can also tell you that I am a trained pharmacologist with over 30 years of research experience and has been educated in toxicology since we have to handle dangerous and toxic substances on a daily basis – so we know what can be potentially dangerous and how to avoid it. If you want more evidence, I can tell you that the last time we had a discussion on this topic, one of the poster mentioned that he actually did a lead wipe test in his reloading area and the one area that he found was contaminated by lead was the area around the tumbler…. |
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Originally Posted By danpass:
Originally Posted By magnum_99:
I guess I don't get the fascination with medically clean brass. I tumble mine in walnut for a few hours and reload it. I've never had any problem with dirt/fouling causing inaccuracy, and rifle brass only lasts so long anyway, so it can only get so dirty. Straight walled pistol brass gets clean inside and out in the vibratory tumbler. My brass comes out looking bright and shiny just by using dry walnut media for a few hours. What am I missing here? there is no replacing the media and no media stuck in the flash holes I rarely have replace the media, and I don't tumble brass without a spent primer in it. "Lead contamination", really? Come on. This is a solution in search of a problem. |
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Originally Posted By magnum_99:
Originally Posted By danpass:
Originally Posted By magnum_99:
I guess I don't get the fascination with medically clean brass. I tumble mine in walnut for a few hours and reload it. I've never had any problem with dirt/fouling causing inaccuracy, and rifle brass only lasts so long anyway, so it can only get so dirty. Straight walled pistol brass gets clean inside and out in the vibratory tumbler. My brass comes out looking bright and shiny just by using dry walnut media for a few hours. What am I missing here? there is no replacing the media and no media stuck in the flash holes I rarely have replace the media, and I don't tumble brass without a spent primer in it. "Lead contamination", really? Come on. This is a solution in search of a problem. I dunno. I think I see signs of lead toxicity. |
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That is what the old shooters used to say – what ear plugs? That’s for sissies, real man shoots without earplugs!
Now all they say is What? What? What? I can’t hear you? What? What???? Pay now or pay later - hopefully just your choice, and not your kids. |
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Ok wait a second....I neer thought water was involved.
To me it looks more expensive, and way more time consuming for what? I dont understand how perfectly cleaned primer pockets help? Using my $50 franford tumber kit, my 9mm brass was perfectly clean inside and out without using lemonshine. Just the small corn cob material included and the frankford polishing liquid. And its rediculously shiny |
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Originally Posted By InfiniteGrim:
Ok wait a second....I neer thought water was involved. To me it looks more expensive, and way more time consuming for what? I dont understand how perfectly cleaned primer pockets help? Using my $50 franford tumber kit, my 9mm brass was perfectly clean inside and out without using lemonshine. Just the small corn cob material included and the frankford polishing liquid. And its rediculously shiny It is definitely more expensive but not because water is involved. The cost comes from buying the media and the tumbler which can add up to close to $250. I have done it both ways and the SS media method is not more time consuming - at least for me. The biggest difference is the addition of drying time, but I always have lots of brass around and so putting it on the dehumidfier fan for a day does not bother me. Again, if cost in important, don't do it. The same for saving work and time. If you are concern about the lead affecting your home, health and the kids, I would suggest you look further. The bling is just icing on the cake. Clean primer pockets only affects those who are into precision shooting. A dirty primer pocket affects how consistent you can seat your primer (assuming your primer pocket depth is already consistent) as it affects the way the primer ignites your powder. Nothing to worry about if you are a plinker. It's only something for the OCD precision shooters. |
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Originally Posted By InfiniteGrim:
you paint the tips of your bullets and you don't understand the desire for bling? |
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Psalm 91:7 A thousand may fall at your side, ten thousand at your right hand, but it will not come near you. [img]icon_smile.gif[/img]
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Originally Posted By jlow:
If you are concern about the lead affecting your home, health and the kids, I would suggest you look further. And we've crossed into the absurd. "Ban walnut media, it's for the children!" Better yet, stop reloading altogether! Handling those bullets is sure to get some lead on your hands. Really, if people want to make nice shiny brass that they take great pleasure in looking at, fine. More power to 'em. Unless someone wants to point to some QUANTIFIABLE, ACTUAL evidence that "lead laden" media is a health hazard, however, let's not get all nutty about the health benefits of stainless steel tumbling. Remember, the traditional media is used in a sealed container. Personally, I don't go spreading it around the house or letting the kids play in it like sand. Prudent practice with ANY reloading activities dictates frequent hand washing. The activity carries some "risks", one of which is handling lead. I don't see how rinsing the "lead laden" water off the cases and getting that water on your hands is any worse than having a closed tumbler in the basement. |
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Originally Posted By Eric802:
Originally Posted By jlow:
If you are concern about the lead affecting your home, health and the kids, I would suggest you look further. And we've crossed into the absurd. "Ban walnut media, it's for the children!" Better yet, stop reloading altogether! Handling those bullets is sure to get some lead on your hands. Really, if people want to make nice shiny brass that they take great pleasure in looking at, fine. More power to 'em. Unless someone wants to point to some QUANTIFIABLE, ACTUAL evidence that "lead laden" media is a health hazard, however, let's not get all nutty about the health benefits of stainless steel tumbling. Remember, the traditional media is used in a sealed container. Personally, I don't go spreading it around the house or letting the kids play in it like sand. Prudent practice with ANY reloading activities dictates frequent hand washing. The activity carries some "risks", one of which is handling lead. I don't see how rinsing the "lead laden" water off the cases and getting that water on your hands is any worse than having a closed tumbler in the basement. First, I have always found you to be a knowledable and reasonable person who helps people with problem on this board. What I don’t quite understand why you find what I say so annoying? I have answered your questions politely and with the information you asked for. I meant no disrespect in any shape or form. I also think you have misunderstood my position on this. I have no problem with people using the traditional walnut/corn cob media, I myself have used it for some time. If handled correctly, it can be reasonably safe. Besides, I always take the approach that you are an adult and it’s your life, people have a right to do what they want as long as they don’t hurt someone else. The fact that there is a lead risk is a given, I have quoted the pages in the reloading bible that talks about this. The exact risk is impossible to tell as it depends completely on many things which varies greatly from reloader to reloader. For example, how frequently do you shoot, what type of bullets and primers, what type of media do you use, how careful are you when you separate your brass from your media, how careful are you when you pour your media back into your tumbler, where in the house do you do this? the variables goes on and on and so what can be a perfectly safe practice for one person can be a very bad one for another. What I do think is important is that people realize that there is a risk involved here (no different than many of the things we do in reloading) and take the necessary precaution to avoid the problem. The discussion regarding SS media is only to give people a choice. The other important thing is people should realize that what they do also affect those around them that is not involved in reloading especially children since their susceptibility to lead is much greater than adults. As to your specific question about differences in exposure between traditional media and “lead laden” water produced by the SS media, that I can give you an answer. The difference is when I handle the dirty water, all the contaminants stays in the water and since I wear a glove, I am protected 100%. The water only goes into the laundry tube and is rinsed down the drain and so there is no chance of any of that material getting on me or into the house. With the traditional media, the problem there is aerosolization which is when you handle material that is in a dust form, it is almost impossible to avoid putting some of the fine dust in the air, the problem with this is that unless you are aware of this problem and so are wearing a respirator, it is likely that you will inhale it into your lungs which is bad. How many of you when you pour your brass media mixture into the separator “smell” that media dust? Guess what, you are inhaling the media dust. The other problem is that the fine dust will also settle on the floor and furniture around the tumbler. This means that anyone that comes along later who is not reloading and touch those surfaces will transfer this material to their hands. Unless they wash their hands (why, they are not reloading?), it might eventually find its way into your clothing and food. This is the kind of understanding which people who working in a laboratory with toxic chemicals, radioactive material, carcinogen is acutely aware of and is never taken lightly. Exposure to lead dust is of course not as dangerous, but long time exposure will put you at significant risk. What I am saying here is no different than people need to understanding and abiding by the basic rule of safe handling of firearms. Just because one of them does not kill you right away does not mean that it is any safer. |
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Originally Posted By Buck_Naked:
Looks like its back in stock... Model B Tumbler $119 http://www.hobbywarehouse.com/Thumlers-Tumblers-Model-B-Rock-Tumbler?sc=75&category=-175 Up to $166 I guess they caught on. |
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" I feel sorry for the people that don't drink; because when they wake up that's as good as they're gonna feel all day."
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Originally Posted By Eric802:
I know where lead comes from. I'm asking where you come up with idea that tumbling media becomes "lead laden". Since it really doesn't do a great job of either cleaning the inside of the cases or the primer pockets, where's all this lead coming from? When i tumble my pistol brass, the primer pocket gets cleaned (already deprimed, so the media can get in there), and so does the inside of the case. Where do you suppose that material went? |
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jlow, I apologize for the fact that I seem to be picking on you specifcally. Over the years I've been on arfcom, one thing that has consistently driven me nuts about this place is the level of ADD that folks seem to have. Magpul, LaRue, piston ARs, stainless steel tumbling, whatever the newest and brightest shiny butterfly happens to be suddenly becomes the "OMG you MUST have this!!1!!" and the product or method that was perfectly fine 6 months ago is suddenly totally inadequate.
Now we have the latest shiny butterfly in the reloading arena, operative word in this case definitely being "shiny". What I want to see is some evidence that there is some material advantage to this method BESIDES "Look how shiny my brass is!" Facts, not just being fascinated by how shiny it is. Does it actually WORK better by producing a more accurate end product? I fall into the markm camp - get the brass clean enough to not scratch your dies or foul your chamber and you're good to go. So I'm coming into this with some skepticism to begin with, and then to see the method being promoted by references to alleged health benefits - well, that just puts it over the top. Now the method that folks have been using forever is dangerous and this is the "safe" way to do it. It smacks of the "It's for the children" rhetoric that people always mock. Now, if it turns out that this actually produces better ammo at the end of the day, fine. Folks can put it in the bag of tricks along with annealing, neck turning, meplat uniforming, etc and decide whether the accuracy return you get justifies the extra expense and/or effort. But c'mon, let's make that decision based on objective evidence without the hyperbole. And with that, I'll bow out of the stainless steel media discussions. jlow, no offense intended. |
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Eric802,
Thanks for the response. Not a problem, I am glad that we can connect and talk through this. I understand where you are coming from. Must admit that I do have some ADD tendencies – LOL! So guilty as charged! Being a Type A, I pretty much have to fight it or I can get myself into big trouble. I like the bling just like some people but in this case I am mostly driven to the SS media because of the potential issue with the lead exposure. I honestly don’t know how much of a problem this is, but having worked in a lab all my life, I’ve had it pounded into me and I am now too old to change…. I also think it is healthy for us reloaders as a group to talk about stuff like this because awareness will allow us to potentially avoid problems down the road. As we all know, if there are problems, there will be plenty of folks ready to jumping out of the woodwork to slap on legislation left and right in the regular knee jerk fashion that we are so familiar with. So better for us to mind our own house than for someone else to do it for us. |
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Originally Posted By GlutealCleft:
Originally Posted By magnum_99:
Originally Posted By danpass:
Originally Posted By magnum_99:
I guess I don't get the fascination with medically clean brass. I tumble mine in walnut for a few hours and reload it. I've never had any problem with dirt/fouling causing inaccuracy, and rifle brass only lasts so long anyway, so it can only get so dirty. Straight walled pistol brass gets clean inside and out in the vibratory tumbler. My brass comes out looking bright and shiny just by using dry walnut media for a few hours. What am I missing here? there is no replacing the media and no media stuck in the flash holes I rarely have replace the media, and I don't tumble brass without a spent primer in it. "Lead contamination", really? Come on. This is a solution in search of a problem. I dunno. I think I see signs of lead toxicity. More like gin or whiskey toxicity. |
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Originally Posted By Nozzelnut:
Originally Posted By Buck_Naked:
Looks like its back in stock... Model B Tumbler $119 http://www.hobbywarehouse.com/Thumlers-Tumblers-Model-B-Rock-Tumbler?sc=75&category=-175 Up to $166 I guess they caught on. Glad I got mine when I did...! |
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Originally Posted By Buck_Naked:
Originally Posted By Nozzelnut:
Originally Posted By Buck_Naked:
Looks like its back in stock... Model B Tumbler $119 http://www.hobbywarehouse.com/Thumlers-Tumblers-Model-B-Rock-Tumbler?sc=75&category=-175 Up to $166 I guess they caught on. Glad I got mine when I did...! Mine was missing parts when it arrived ... no nuts to secure the motor, no drive belt. |
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Originally Posted By gasdoc09:
Originally Posted By Buck_Naked:
Originally Posted By Nozzelnut:
Originally Posted By Buck_Naked:
Looks like its back in stock... Model B Tumbler $119 http://www.hobbywarehouse.com/Thumlers-Tumblers-Model-B-Rock-Tumbler?sc=75&category=-175 Up to $166 I guess they caught on. Glad I got mine when I did...! Mine was missing parts when it arrived ... no nuts to secure the motor, no drive belt. The two nuts weren't in the bag with the wingunts and washers for the lid? |
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Originally Posted By Buck_Naked:
Originally Posted By Nozzelnut:
Originally Posted By Buck_Naked:
Looks like its back in stock... Model B Tumbler $119 http://www.hobbywarehouse.com/Thumlers-Tumblers-Model-B-Rock-Tumbler?sc=75&category=-175 Up to $166 I guess they caught on. Glad I got mine when I did...! On google it still shows 119.00 ? |
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Ooops wrong post.
Own Page 4 though... |
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Originally Posted By Easy_E: Originally Posted By Buck_Naked: Originally Posted By Nozzelnut: Originally Posted By Buck_Naked: Looks like its back in stock... Model B Tumbler $119 http://www.hobbywarehouse.com/Thumlers-Tumblers-Model-B-Rock-Tumbler?sc=75&category=-175 Up to $166 I guess they caught on. Glad I got mine when I did...! On google it still shows 119.00 ? I saw that but when you click the link it gives you a higher price. |
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"I heard that Stickman likes to walk through a fat camp while eating a double whopper....." Danielisright
Tennessee Squire |
Originally Posted By danpass:
Originally Posted By InfiniteGrim:
you paint the tips of your bullets and you don't understand the desire for bling? My brass comes out of my tumbler rediculously shiny and I dont even use lemonshine. Just corn cob and frankford arsenal polishing compound. 3-4 hours is shiny and 5-6 will burn your eyes. |
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The point of using Lemishine is to clean up badly tarnished brass picked up at the range. It is not used with walnut or corn cob media.
Lemishine also loosens carbon fouling, but some mechanical aid is needed to dislodge it from the brass, hence ultrasonic cleaners and rotary tumbler with steel media. Plain ol' clean and untreated walnut in a vibratory machine works well for cleaning and polishing brass that is not badly tarnished, and even in that case it cleans the brass well enough to use, it's just shiny. |
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US 2010 budget: $3.55 Trillion
2010 costs: $4.47T Revenues: $2.22T Deficit spending: $960B in 2008, $1.42T in 2009 20 January 2013 - The End of an Error < |
How much credit can the Lemi shine , take for cleaning the primer pockets & inside the brass ?
True the S/S media is there to agitate ,but the chemicals are what's really doing the cleaning . I tumble my brass before I size & deprime , so I don't know if it would clean the primer pockets . Only takes a little twist to clean the pockets any way. I just don't care for the water treatment ,just old fashioned & set in my ways after over thirty years of reloading . |
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Originally Posted By InfiniteGrim:
Originally Posted By danpass:
Originally Posted By InfiniteGrim:
you paint the tips of your bullets and you don't understand the desire for bling? My brass comes out of my tumbler rediculously shiny and I dont even use lemonshine. Just corn cob and frankford arsenal polishing compound. 3-4 hours is shiny and 5-6 will burn your eyes. How often do you change your media? mine is pretty cruddy after a few thousand rounds of Mil brass. That, combined with the polish, adds up. |
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Originally Posted By survivalshop:
How much credit can the Lemi shine , take for cleaning the primer pockets & inside the brass ? True the S/S media is there to agitate ,but the chemicals are what's really doing the cleaning . Negative. Take a look at the pictures I posted. No chemicals other than Dawn dish soap. The addition of something like Frankford Arsenal polish to dry media is the same thing as adding Lemishine to the wet method. I believe the FA polish is a citric acid based chemical. |
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Make yourself sheep and the wolves will eat you. --Benjamin Franklin
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Originally Posted By Muad_Dib:
Originally Posted By survivalshop:
How much credit can the Lemi shine , take for cleaning the primer pockets & inside the brass ? True the S/S media is there to agitate ,but the chemicals are what's really doing the cleaning . Negative. Take a look at the pictures I posted. No chemicals other than Dawn dish soap. The addition of something like Frankford Arsenal polish to dry media is the same thing as adding Lemishine to the wet method. I believe the FA polish is a citric acid based chemical. The photos are on page 2. You tumbled for three hours. Here are two questions; first, what is the minimum time needed to get the brass polished and cleaned inside out with dish soap and steel, and second, how much time is required to get the same result after a 30 minute soak in Lemishine before starting the tumbler? That time required is important to me, and I'm betting you're tumbling much longer than needed. Dawn acts as a surfactant and I question whether using Dawn and Lemishine together is necessary as I expect Lemishine also contains a detergent. |
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US 2010 budget: $3.55 Trillion
2010 costs: $4.47T Revenues: $2.22T Deficit spending: $960B in 2008, $1.42T in 2009 20 January 2013 - The End of an Error < |
Dawn acts as a surfactant and I question whether using Dawn and Lemishine together is necessary as I expect Lemishine also contains a detergent. I don't think it has a detergent in it. I am not at home and don't have a bottle to read. But from the website: " Lemi Shine is an all natural product composed of natural fruit oils and acids and contains no phosphates." I think it is just citric acid. But, then again, I don't know for sure" I have NOT tried just Lemishine by itself, but I HAVE I tried just detergent alone, and it did not do nearly as well as both combined. Very uncontrolled and very subjective observation. JKM |
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Originally Posted By JKM777:
Dawn acts as a surfactant and I question whether using Dawn and Lemishine together is necessary as I expect Lemishine also contains a detergent. I don't think it has a detergent in it. I am not at home and don't have a bottle to read. But from the website: " Lemi Shine is an all natural product composed of natural fruit oils and acids and contains no phosphates." I think it is just citric acid. But, then again, I don't know for sure" I have NOT tried just Lemishine by itself, but I HAVE I tried just detergent alone, and it did not do nearly as well as both combined. Very uncontrolled and very subjective observation. JKM Lemishine is just citric acid. It is normally used in diswashers as an additive (in addition to detergent) to dissolve hard water stains. |
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Originally Posted By Buck_Naked:
Originally Posted By gasdoc09:
Mine was missing parts when it arrived ... no nuts to secure the motor, no drive belt. The two nuts weren't in the bag with the wingunts and washers for the lid? Nope .. 2 wingnuts and 2 washers loosely holding the lid in place, motor in a package inside the drum. Called Thumler's this morning - good CS, they're sending the parts free of charge. |
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Originally Posted By gasdoc09:
Originally Posted By Buck_Naked:
Originally Posted By Nozzelnut:
Originally Posted By Buck_Naked:
Looks like its back in stock... Model B Tumbler $119 http://www.hobbywarehouse.com/Thumlers-Tumblers-Model-B-Rock-Tumbler?sc=75&category=-175 Up to $166 I guess they caught on. Glad I got mine when I did...! Mine was missing parts when it arrived ... no nuts to secure the motor, no drive belt. Mine was also missing the belt and bolts (also from hobbywarehouse) When I called the lady answering thought I was calling back when I mentioned missing parts...Must be a few missing parts . BTW got mine for $119, but it is the one with the low speed motor. Being that the slow speed is recommended for polishing rocks with water and abrasive, and the high speed if for dry walnut media and brass, I think slow speed motor will work just fine for wet SS media. |
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Originally Posted By AeroE:
The photos are on page 2. You tumbled for three hours. Here are two questions; first, what is the minimum time needed to get the brass polished and cleaned inside out with dish soap and steel, and second, how much time is required to get the same result after a 30 minute soak in Lemishine before starting the tumbler? That time required is important to me, and I'm betting you're tumbling much longer than needed. Dawn acts as a surfactant and I question whether using Dawn and Lemishine together is necessary as I expect Lemishine also contains a detergent. Good questions, actually. The simple answer is that I don't know. I've only done three runs of roughly 2 lbs each of brass (about double what the "max" weight is supposed to be). The first one, 9mm, I was very interested in, so I pulled brass out after 10 minutes, 1 hour, and 3 hours. After 10 minutes they were clearly getting clean, but basically had the dust and major crud washed off. After 1 hour they were mostly clean, but the depths of the cases still had a little bit of carbon inside. Not much, far less than what I've seen from dry media. After 3 hours they were brilliantly clean, but there was an occasional case that had just a hint of discoloration to it. Dawn + water. The second run was .223 brass. I put it in and didn't touch it for slightly less than 3 hours. Dawn + water. You can see the photos posted on pg. 2. Third batch was 9mm again. This was Dawn + a .40 cal case full of Lemishine powder, plus water. I ran it for 3 hours uninterrupted. The cleanliness of the brass wasn't really much different than the plain soap and water, but the uniformity of the color was better. It was all very slightly lighter colored, and there weren't any cases with discoloration inside that I noticed. I haven't done any more testing because I want to take the spent primers out and test how clean the cases get without primers, but my press is at Dillon. I will definitely post more pics for everyone if they want them. I have a couple hundred pounds of brass that I want to clean... so plenty of time and effort will be put into this. I'll run a bunch through with just water if you guys want me to, or pretty much any variation you can think of just to see how things go. |
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Make yourself sheep and the wolves will eat you. --Benjamin Franklin
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Originally Posted By Muad_Dib: How about triple the Lemishine and tumble time down to 2 hours? Try to see if u can shorten the cycle time. Extra Lemishine is not going to hurt. Originally Posted By AeroE: The photos are on page 2. You tumbled for three hours. Here are two questions; first, what is the minimum time needed to get the brass polished and cleaned inside out with dish soap and steel, and second, how much time is required to get the same result after a 30 minute soak in Lemishine before starting the tumbler? That time required is important to me, and I'm betting you're tumbling much longer than needed. Dawn acts as a surfactant and I question whether using Dawn and Lemishine together is necessary as I expect Lemishine also contains a detergent. Good questions, actually. The simple answer is that I don't know. I've only done three runs of roughly 2 lbs each of brass (about double what the "max" weight is supposed to be). The first one, 9mm, I was very interested in, so I pulled brass out after 10 minutes, 1 hour, and 3 hours. After 10 minutes they were clearly getting clean, but basically had the dust and major crud washed off. After 1 hour they were mostly clean, but the depths of the cases still had a little bit of carbon inside. Not much, far less than what I've seen from dry media. After 3 hours they were brilliantly clean, but there was an occasional case that had just a hint of discoloration to it. Dawn + water. The second run was .223 brass. I put it in and didn't touch it for slightly less than 3 hours. Dawn + water. You can see the photos posted on pg. 2. Third batch was 9mm again. This was Dawn + a .40 cal case full of Lemishine powder, plus water. I ran it for 3 hours uninterrupted. The cleanliness of the brass wasn't really much different than the plain soap and water, but the uniformity of the color was better. It was all very slightly lighter colored, and there weren't any cases with discoloration inside that I noticed. I haven't done any more testing because I want to take the spent primers out and test how clean the cases get without primers, but my press is at Dillon. I will definitely post more pics for everyone if they want them. I have a couple hundred pounds of brass that I want to clean... so plenty of time and effort will be put into this. I'll run a bunch through with just water if you guys want me to, or pretty much any variation you can think of just to see how things go. |
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"I heard that Stickman likes to walk through a fat camp while eating a double whopper....." Danielisright
Tennessee Squire |
Originally Posted By STJ:
Mine was also missing the belt and bolts (also from hobbywarehouse) When I called the lady answering thought I was calling back when I mentioned missing parts...Must be a few missing parts . BTW got mine for $119, but it is the one with the low speed motor. Being that the slow speed is recommended for polishing rocks with water and abrasive, and the high speed if for dry walnut media and brass, I think slow speed motor will work just fine for wet SS media. Hmm, I wasn't aware that multiple motor speeds were out there. I thought all Thumler Tumblers were created equal. I bet it'll work fine on slow in any case. |
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Originally Posted By SandHillsHillbilly:
Originally Posted By Muad_Dib:
How about triple the Lemishine and tumble time down to 2 hours? Try to see if u can shorten the cycle time. Extra Lemishine is not going to hurt.
Originally Posted By AeroE:
The photos are on page 2. You tumbled for three hours. Here are two questions; first, what is the minimum time needed to get the brass polished and cleaned inside out with dish soap and steel, and second, how much time is required to get the same result after a 30 minute soak in Lemishine before starting the tumbler? That time required is important to me, and I'm betting you're tumbling much longer than needed. Dawn acts as a surfactant and I question whether using Dawn and Lemishine together is necessary as I expect Lemishine also contains a detergent. Good questions, actually. The simple answer is that I don't know. I've only done three runs of roughly 2 lbs each of brass (about double what the "max" weight is supposed to be). The first one, 9mm, I was very interested in, so I pulled brass out after 10 minutes, 1 hour, and 3 hours. After 10 minutes they were clearly getting clean, but basically had the dust and major crud washed off. After 1 hour they were mostly clean, but the depths of the cases still had a little bit of carbon inside. Not much, far less than what I've seen from dry media. After 3 hours they were brilliantly clean, but there was an occasional case that had just a hint of discoloration to it. Dawn + water. The second run was .223 brass. I put it in and didn't touch it for slightly less than 3 hours. Dawn + water. You can see the photos posted on pg. 2. Third batch was 9mm again. This was Dawn + a .40 cal case full of Lemishine powder, plus water. I ran it for 3 hours uninterrupted. The cleanliness of the brass wasn't really much different than the plain soap and water, but the uniformity of the color was better. It was all very slightly lighter colored, and there weren't any cases with discoloration inside that I noticed. I haven't done any more testing because I want to take the spent primers out and test how clean the cases get without primers, but my press is at Dillon. I will definitely post more pics for everyone if they want them. I have a couple hundred pounds of brass that I want to clean... so plenty of time and effort will be put into this. I'll run a bunch through with just water if you guys want me to, or pretty much any variation you can think of just to see how things go. I would add three or four heaping tablespoons to a container the size of a Thumblers, and that won't be a saturated solution. |
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US 2010 budget: $3.55 Trillion
2010 costs: $4.47T Revenues: $2.22T Deficit spending: $960B in 2008, $1.42T in 2009 20 January 2013 - The End of an Error < |
Originally Posted By gasdoc09:
Originally Posted By STJ:
Mine was also missing the belt and bolts (also from hobbywarehouse) When I called the lady answering thought I was calling back when I mentioned missing parts...Must be a few missing parts . BTW got mine for $119, but it is the one with the low speed motor. Being that the slow speed is recommended for polishing rocks with water and abrasive, and the high speed if for dry walnut media and brass, I think slow speed motor will work just fine for wet SS media. Hmm, I wasn't aware that multiple motor speeds were out there. I thought all Thumler Tumblers were created equal. I bet it'll work fine on slow in any case. Mine is the slow speed. Works great when tumbling for about 3 to 4 hours. I don't know if the faster speed would work any faster or not. I'm very satisfied with my results. I tend to use about a heaping tablespoonful of Lemishine and a "Healthy Dollup" of Dawn Dishsoap. Seems to work well, and we have pretty hard water here. I haven't tried more Lemishine, Less Time. Might be worth a try. Thanks JKM |
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