Seeing it for yourself is quite something, isn't it?

Hard to capture a lot of NV related stuff accurately in photographs.

~Augee

I'm not a hunter.

I don't do hunter things.

So if you want to hunt, you may not want to ask me.

Needless to say I have plenty of access to Class IIIB lasers, and certainly I take advantage of that fact.

I also use plenty of Class I lasers.

I have used ATPIALs of various types for over a decade. I have something of a familiar preference for them, they feel comfortable and they feel like home, which, for a device that's operated almost 100% by feel and memory is "big important" to me.  

The MAWL-C1+ IMHO is a better performer than the AN/PEQ-15. I don't think it's perfect, but in terms of raw illuminator performance especially, as well as the green visible laser, it's a better performer in a Class I envelope than a Class IIIB PEQ-15--0.7mW out of an aiming laser is more than sufficient for 99% of engagement and designation scenarios until you start talking combined arms operations and formations spread over kilometers, which is frankly not what I think most people are doing, even in the military. Much less law enforcement or prepared civilian.

I would be--I am, perfectly happy with an ATPIAL-C on a shorty gun for most applications.

For most of the things a sub-14" barrel 5.56 gun is realistically going to be good for, combined with the fact that I've got a 3v Surefire Vampire on my helmet and if I really wanted, a 6v Vampire is usually just a bezel change away on most of my rifles, it does its job.

Do I wish that we could freely sell full powered ATPIALs for the same price as Class I versions to the market at large? Absolutely. Do I think the ATPIAL-C would exist if it weren't for Class I restrictions? Absolutely not.  

Now, for reasons I've already noted, if I'm going with a Class I laser that's not a MAWL, 99.9% of the time for me it will be ATPIAL-C.

But the DBAL-A3 is functionally identical minus the green VIS laser option. The fact that you can adjust the spread of the illuminator (but not the intensity) is largely meaningless to me, and I'd almost rather not have it all than to have such a half-assed version of a useful capability.

If you're not, for whatever reason, willing to spring for a MAWL, I'd go ATPIAL-C or DBAL-A3 for you application.

And just for the "you're just trying to make a sale" crowd, the MAWL-C1+ has just about the worst margins possible for a modern product, and margins on Steiner products (various DBALs) are also way better than on the ATPIAL-C. What you're getting here is my opinion based on performance.

If I was trying to maximize our profits, I'd be putting DBAL-D2s in all y'all's hands, and underplaying any of its shortcomings as much as possible to steer you away from gray market lasers and Persts, which is what many of y'all will turn to after hearing what I have to say, which ::shrug:: is fine with me.

~Augee

Couple points.

I've spent stood downrange from IR illuminators. Standing on catwalks watching guys move. Observing students. Observing demos.

The D2 illuminator is more noticeable. I'm not talking about hypotheticals, I'm talking about something I've seen. Regardless, the science of how lasers and LED generate output backs it up.

And I've tried the camera thing before. J. W. can tell you. We tried to capture IR illuminator performance and downrange signatures several years ago. I've never ended up publishing it because I wasn't happy with the results. It didn't reflect what I saw. One either side of the devices. Not a fault of his, photographing illuminators and accurately conveying their relative performance just sucks.

Still, if that was the only thing, it's admittedly not a deal killing issue, and I've said many times before, as long as you're aware of it, it's not an issue.

The DBAL-D2 is a great performer. It has some shortcomings, but performance-wise, it's a good laser.

Why don't I like it?

It goes back to my explanation of why I do like the ATPIAL-C, and over the DBAL-A3.

Everything about the switchology and ergonomics of the ATPIAL is better to me than any DBAL. Period.

"Not that big of a deal."

I mean I agree in some ways, but I also disagree.

Again, you're talking about a piece of equipment that you will almost always operate without ever looking at. You have to know the status, controls, and disposition of the device and how to make it do what you want it to do without ever looking at it, and be able to switch on the fly as conditions and circumstances change.

Now some of this has to do with my own preferences.

I'm a right handed shooter that prefers under most circumstances to be an "over the top" laser shooter, while I often have various supplementary remote controls wired up, my primary mode of activation wants to go over the top of the laser and use the onboard fire button. A lot of this has to do with the unreliability of many laser remote plug ports and switches that I've experienced over the years. Some lasers you need to have the cable perfectly rotated within the slot to activate it, etc., it's pretty lame. Some switches are better--even switch to switch of the same type and manufacturer. Being honest, LDI/Steiner OEM cables have historically been some of the worst and they don't all always play friendly with cables and plugs. Things like the new Crane-style connector designed for the TAPS help, but in the end, I just don't like relying on them as a primary. Surefire light plugs are usually way better, though annoying in their own ways.

The DBAL-D2 drives me into paroxysms mounted as a 12 o'clock carbine laser.

The big "girthy" as others have put it, illuminator is right in the way of everything I love and hold dear. Can't put a light switch there, can't grab a good hold on the rifle, it's not even the size or weight, it's where it is. I hate it.

Then, the "FIRE" button is nowhere near where I want it. If by some gargantuan effort I manage to get over top of the thing and figure out how to grip it and how to be comfortable with it, the "FIRE" button is nowhere to be found, and nowhere near where it is on most lasers that I can fumble around and locate it by feel alone.

Instead it's on the ass goddamn end of the Red Bull can hanging off the rifle.

Then, and this is a common complaint of mine with DBALs, but on an A2/A3/I2/PEQ-15A, I can get over it, but the damn rear mode switching. Ick. Just put it on top, first of all. Meanwhile the knob is nearly symmetrical. In the dark, with gloves, you've got to think about where it is and what direction it's pointing in, it's got so many points. Why? Why? Insight makes it so easy. There's a flap coming off in one direction. One direction only. Like a clock hand. You know where it's pointing as long as you can feel it. Through gloves, in the cold, in the rain and snow.  

So... it's very personal, it's very subjective.

And the D2 performs pretty well so long as you're aware of and okay with the downrange signature.

It works real well on longer guns with longer rails activated by a TAPS or something like that, but to me, not so well on short rails. It's great side-mounted with a clip-on.

It's really not a bad laser.

But I hate it on a short carbine.

And I don't think it brings enough to the table for a short gun application to overcome its shortcomings, where, also, if the signature was going to be a liability, it's the worst possible application.

~Augee

Again.

If VIS signature was the only issue then it might be a different story.

But there is VIS signature. And it is more noticeable than a laser based illuminator.

Does the ATPIAL-C's illuminator show its shortcomings for slinging mid-range steel? Yeah.

Again, I'm not a hunter. So maybe it sucks for that, too.

But neither of these things is what a short carbine is for. Can they do them? Sure. But for a defensive carbine or LE application (individual weapon), I would still prefer and recommend something like a DBAL-A3 or ATPIAL-C over the D2. Again, because VIS signature is not the only issue. I don't think it's well suited for, eh, say a rail of 12" or less, where you almost have to have your hand on it at some point in time, and it's not intuitive to use in the same way as a I think a close-range fighting gun laser should be. I'll give up illuminator performance for more fluid operation in the dark, because I can always add illumination. I can't make the device be functionally better.

Do I wish it had more range of capability like a Class IIIB for the price? Sure. But the MAWL-C1+ is just money away if you want that or need that.

And, once again, I have nothing but reasons to steer you towards a DBAL-D2. I'm theoretically hurting my own bottom line by saying this.

~Augee