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Posted: 6/13/2018 8:35:58 PM EDT
My first M1 Garand arrives tomorrow and I am looking at loading for this after the first couple of hundred rounds I'm shooting of factory ammo(PPU M1 Garand Loading).  From my reading it seems 4895 and 4064 are popular powders.  I'd like to stick with 4064 as I already use quite a lot for my .308 and don't want to add an extra powder if not necessary.  My question is about projectiles.  What are some suggestions for a 150gr-ish bullet.  I'm not looking for super precision but if I can find something that is economical and shoots better than M2 ball than even better.

What are you Garand shooters using?
Link Posted: 6/13/2018 9:02:42 PM EDT
[#1]
No Garand here but I'd be looking at the 150gr Hornady FMJ.
Link Posted: 6/13/2018 9:56:50 PM EDT
[#2]
I'd say look at the 168 gr and 175 gr Sierra MatchKings.

These will show you what your rifle is capable of.  Once you know that, you can decide the next steps.
Link Posted: 6/14/2018 4:02:35 AM EDT
[#3]
Hornady 130gr SP, 150gr FMJ, 168gr BTHP, 178gr ELD.

Short range, mid range, long range.
Link Posted: 6/14/2018 6:17:45 AM EDT
[#4]
Thanks.  I was looking at the Hornady 150 FMJ.  Am I wrong in trying to stay at 150grs?  I've read so many stories about bending OP rods and whatnot using heavier ammo.  Is that just factory ammo loaded hotter?  Am I OK using heavier projectiles since I'm working up a load?
Link Posted: 6/14/2018 6:45:43 AM EDT
[#5]
Link Posted: 6/14/2018 8:14:50 AM EDT
[#6]
Hornady 150 FMJ's shoot well. Only negative is the cannelure is not located to match the case mouth unless you load them shorter to Hornady's new overall length. Hornady used to recommend seating them longer which put the cannelure out in front of the case mouth. Not really an issue. I've shot them at both lengths and they functioned fine. They just don't look right seated with the cannelure totally exposed or they do look a little short at the shorter oal. I prefer true M2 style bullets such as these:
https://www.buffaloarms.com/308-diameter-150-grain-fmj-jacketed-bullets-m2-ball-ppu308150fmj
OR these:
https://www.grafs.com/catalog/product/productId/71842
 Grafs sells in smaller quantities too. If your factory PPU shoots ok for you in your rifle these are the same bullets. Just note that Garand chambers often are near maximum lengths. Measure your fired brass shoulders and adjust your sizing die to not push the shoulders back too much. Hornady's Headspace Gauge Set that works with your calipers does well. Garands are hard on brass from nicks and stretching.
Link Posted: 6/14/2018 9:49:13 AM EDT
[#7]
Every year, hundreds, thousands of CMP "as-issued" Garands fire 168s with no extra consequence. 170-180 is max with the medium burn rate like 4895.
Link Posted: 6/14/2018 9:57:14 AM EDT
[#8]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
As for full loads and 168/175gr bullets, will need to bleed off the unneeded gas from the system so you don't bend the op rod.
For such, an Mccan grands gas plug with the correct size bleed port so the rifle "just" full cycles with a give load is the answer.
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View Quote
Nope, not at all.  This is fear mongering to sell stuff.  I'm sure Dano means well.

OP, let me recommend you start with IMR 4895 and the 168 SMK.  This bullet will let you know what your rifle is capable of.  If you want to start with a match grade 150-ish bullet, that works, too.  Either way, benchmark the accuracy against the group size of that 168 gr bullet.

If you wanted to, you could and maybe should consider H-4895.  It is ever so slightly different in the burn rate but is one of Hodgdon's Extreme powders, so it meters a little better and is insensitive to temperature variations.

I use IMR 4895 for the sole purpose of being seriously 'old school'.  I use the CCI #34 MIL-SPEC primers.
Link Posted: 6/14/2018 12:36:32 PM EDT
[#9]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I'd say look at the 168 gr and 175 gr Sierra MatchKings.

These will show you what your rifle is capable of.  Once you know that, you can decide the next steps.
View Quote
46.0 grains of IMR-4895 or 47.0 grains of IMR-4064 will net a decent load with 168 grain match bullets from any of the big three bullet makers. If you have a chronograph look for the best accuracy between 2550 to 2650 fps with a 168. 2500 to 2600 fps from a 175.
Link Posted: 6/15/2018 7:41:30 AM EDT
[#10]
All the years I shot CMP (then DCM) matches, I used Win 748 under a 173 gr Lake City M72 "Match" fmj.....

Our range was a reduced range....  We shot smaller targets at 100 and 200 yards.  We simply didn't have the room for a 600 yard range.  Given reduced ranges, the slight velocity loss over 100/200 yards was absolutely negligible.  If I was shooting an honest 600, I'd be tempted to use IMR4064 for the increased muzzle velocity.  IMR4064 is apparently as slow as you'd want to go with a powder in the Garand....

Absolutely tons of cartridges have been fired thru the Garand, and the vast majority of it used 4895.  The Garand, by virtue of limitations of its gas handling system, isn't going to maximize the 30-06 cartridge by today's standards.   If you really want to be authentic, and get the M1 experience, just use 4895 and call it good....

As for bullets:  The original bullet was the M1906 with a 150 FMJ.  Followed in 1920's by the Ball M1 with the 173 grain boat tail FMJ.  And then reverted back to a 150 grainer with the M2 Ball from 1937-1954.....

Many of the current 150 class FMJ's are boat tails.  I see a lot of 147's, and these are almost all of a boat tail design.  The actual bearing surface on any of these 147's tends to be very short, and if your rifle has a longer throat, I really think the bullet is totally unsupported for a distance before engaging rifling.   The original M2 Ball loads used a flat base 150, which had longer bearing surface and more support....

There are damned few .30 FMJ flat base bullets on the market.  If you want a M2 Ball equivalent, I'd be using a Sierra #2130 SPT Prohunter, or a Hornady #3031 Interlock.  Neither are FMJ, but both are closer to the original bullet than various 147-150 FMJ on the market  .   IF you want slightly better ballistics and match the M1 Ball, use a Sierra #2275 175gr matchking.

Note:  If you use original M2 Ball fired brass, run a quick check on the brass.  I had 5 gallon bucket of LC1967, 68, 69 brass.  If memory serves correctly, most of its was decent, and ran about 190-195 grains.  I have found some as light as 170 (and a really scary one at 155!) and some that ran mid-220's.  No need to actually weight sort for a Garand, but culling the real statistical outliers will help.

Fro
Link Posted: 6/15/2018 11:58:03 AM EDT
[#11]
Best bang for the buck are Hornady 150gr. Either the FMJ or if you want something that won't beat up your steel gong as much or want to hunt a deer, the Hornady #3031 flat base 150 SP.

If you don't mind a little more expensive the #3033 boat tail 150 SP. Ours shoots the both the Seirra 150 Flat base and Boat Tails really well too.

As long as you stay within the recommended burn rate powder wise you don't need to worry about the op rod regardless of bullet weight. There are several well respected publications to reference.

Personally unless I had some special reason to I wouldn't shoot anything other than 150s. They are accurate and don't recoil much.

Enjoy your Garand.

Motor
Link Posted: 6/15/2018 1:26:15 PM EDT
[#12]
After all these responses I think I might go duel path.  I have a ton of 168 SMK around so I think I'll work up a load with them and a plinking M2 type load with 150 FMJ.  Thanks.
Link Posted: 6/15/2018 1:41:02 PM EDT
[#13]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
After all these responses I think I might go duel path.  I have a ton of 168 SMK around so I think I'll work up a load with them and a plinking M2 type load with 150 FMJ.  Thanks.
View Quote
Sounds like a plan, to me, especially since you already own the SMK's.

My stock GI M1 shoots everything equally poorly.  Groups are 4-6" in diameter at 100 yards.  The shots stay in the black but take up a big portion of it.  I believe this is because my barrel is worn out.

What I found in my testing is that no bullet, and no amount of tweaking to the reload recipe (OAL, etc), made a significant improvement in accuracy.  Once I made that determination, I chose to use inexpensive reloads until I can get the darned thing re-barreled*.

Your inexpensive plinking loads will be just fine, too.

They are fun to shoot.  Iron sights, semi-automatic,... what's not to like?  Enjoy!
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*  It's been years and I just haven't gotten it done.  Honestly, it is the aversion I have to shipping firearms through the mail.  I should just buy/rent the tools I need.  That way, it will actually get done (and it should be fun).
Link Posted: 6/15/2018 6:23:35 PM EDT
[#14]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Thanks.  I was looking at the Hornady 150 FMJ.  Am I wrong in trying to stay at 150grs?  I've read so many stories about bending OP rods and whatnot using heavier ammo.  Is that just factory ammo loaded hotter?  Am I OK using heavier projectiles since I'm working up a load?
View Quote
The M1 was designed around the 173 grain M1 ball cartridge.  The 150 grain M2 ball loading was developed later because of overrange issues on short National Guard ranges. There is no reason to stick with 150 grain bullets.  By the end of the war almost all actual issue ammo was the 163-168 grain M2 AP.

For decades the most popular match load was the 168 grain Matchking over 46 grains of 4064.
Link Posted: 6/16/2018 12:25:08 AM EDT
[#15]
I get better accuracy with the 168gr SMK or Nosler CC than I do with the 150fmj or Nosler 155CC.

I also use IMR 4064 and the Master Po recommended loadings.
Link Posted: 6/18/2018 11:40:09 PM EDT
[#16]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
No Garand here but I'd be looking at the 150gr Hornady FMJ.
View Quote
It shoots ok for me.  You can do better of course, but for just fucking off, they do well.
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