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USA
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Posted: 3/15/2023 12:29:40 AM EST
My M1 Garand doesn't shoot for shit! It can barely hold the black at 100 yards. What's that, something like 6 MOA? I've let others shoot it with equally poor results, all shooting done with match-quality ammo.
I believe I should buy a new barrel. However, I bought a cheap bore scope and ran it down the bore. Holy crap!, there was a lot of junk in the barrel. That was despite cleaning it with everything under sun. The amount of junk in barrel and especially the throat was just,... well, I couldn't believe how much scrubbing was required to get down to the steel of the barrel. Solvents on patches and brushes didn't even touch it. Carbon Cutter did not get it either. Nope, really, it took massive amounts of scrubbing with JB Bore Paste, hundreds of strokes, especially in the throat. It is now clean. Clean as in, shiny metal on both lands and grooves. The good news, all that junk may have been protecting the barrel.  There is actually still a proper barrel, with lands, even in the throat area.Someday soon, when I get a break in the weather, I will get out and shoot it. Here's hoping it shoots better than it did. If I can get down to 3 MOA, I will be ecstatic. If not, I'm no worse off, I'll just be in need of that new barrel. |
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OR, USA
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Posted: 3/15/2023 2:13:46 AM EST
[#1]
Glad you found a shiny barrel. I use a lot of JB and copper remover on old surplus.
Accuracy can be effected by other factors. Is the gas tube splines tight? Is the stock snug fitting with tight lock up of the trigger group? Unfortunately for me accuracy problems are mostly the nut behind the trigger. The match this last weekend my highest score was standing at 95. While that looked promising, rapids I drifted the shots right out of the black and prone slow the zero seemed to be drifting. |
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Posted: 3/15/2023 2:15:47 AM EST
[#2]
Make sure you oil that bright shiny bare steel bore.
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 3/15/2023 8:44:43 AM EST
[#3]
Pepe has some good input. There are a number of things that contribute to accuracy in the M1 other than bore condition
My choice in cleaning for old military bores is sweets 7.62 Run a wet patch back and forth until the fluid starts to froth up, then let it sit for an hour. Then a few passes of a bore brush, a few dry patches then repeat. The literal chunks of thick green copper fouling that come out is sometimes very surprising. Make sure your rear sight is tight also - Run the elevation all the way up and push down firmly on the rear sight if it slips down it needs to be tightened. If your trigger guard when locking into stock/ receiver doesn’t require a hearty smack with the palm of your hand or even a wooden or rubber mallet for the last bit of travel, it is probably too loose. If you have the old WWII style trigger guard, often replacing with the newer stamped trigger guard can tighten things up. |
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USA
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Posted: 3/15/2023 11:44:07 AM EST
[Last Edit: Trollslayer]
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By pepe-lepew: Glad you found a shiny barrel. I use a lot of JB and copper remover on old surplus. Accuracy can be effected by other factors. Is the gas tube splines tight? Is the stock snug fitting with tight lock up of the trigger group? Unfortunately for me accuracy problems are mostly the nut behind the trigger. The match this last weekend my highest score was standing at 95. While that looked promising, rapids I drifted the shots right out of the black and prone slow the zero seemed to be drifting. I've previously used JB and all manner of other cleaners on this barrel and I thought it was reasonably clean. The bore scope proved I was completely wrong. The muzzle and most of the barrel's length were clean but that first ~8" in front of the chamber was a bad joke. The amount of JB and number of cleaning strokes which normally clean any barrel did not come close to cleaning this bore. I've done everything else to tune up the rifle - peened the splines and everything is reasonably tight including the sights, lock up is firm but no mallet is needed. The receiver is not bedded in any way. Nothing ever helped and no one could get it to shoot accurately, so I defaulted to thinking it had a bad barrel (which may still be true). |
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USA
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Posted: 3/15/2023 11:44:40 AM EST
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Gamma762: Make sure you oil that bright shiny bare steel bore. Understood and done. |
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OR, USA
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Posted: 3/15/2023 11:53:12 AM EST
[#6]
Keep us informed on results. I am curious if you get any accuracy from removing all the fouling.
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COK
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Posted: 3/15/2023 12:45:02 PM EST
[#7]
For a simple rifle there are a lot of things that can take it from fine accuracy to ho hum,
- stock fit,.. ..does the trigger draw tight clamping the stock firmly or just merely shut?. You should start getting resistance when the trigger guard nears the bottom tip of the trigger. Old stock compress or dry out losing necessary girth to clamp tight. ..op rod not touching wood during cycle .. rear hand gaurd not in firm touch with stock forearm, you want a bit of gap (ask me how I learned this  )- gas cylinder fit, tight on the barrel splines or rotational slop? easy fix, lay a round rod on the barrel groove and peen them - rear sight slop, spring cover should have a bit of tension on the raised rear sight. wobbly sights (front or rear are not helpful) of course you have bore and muzzle condition, Wipeout spray foam bore cleaner has been excellent for removing copper and carbon. |
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USA
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Posted: 3/16/2023 8:19:59 AM EST
[Last Edit: Nick_Adams]
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SteelonSteel: For a simple rifle there are a lot of things that can take it from fine accuracy to ho hum, - stock fit,.. ..does the trigger draw tight clamping the stock firmly or just merely shut?. You should start getting resistance when the trigger guard nears the bottom tip of the trigger. Old stock compress or dry out losing necessary girth to clamp tight. ..op rod not touching wood during cycle .. rear hand gaurd not in firm touch with stock forearm, you want a bit of gap (ask me how I learned this )- gas cylinder fit, tight on the barrel splines or rotational slop? easy fix, lay a round rod on the barrel groove and peen them - rear sight slop, spring cover should have a bit of tension on the raised rear sight. wobbly sights (front or rear are not helpful) of course you have bore and muzzle condition, Wipeout spray foam bore cleaner has been excellent for removing copper and carbon. Yep, there are three or four very simple things the OP can do, or a Garand-knowledgeable ‘smith can do, if he can find one, to improve the accuracy of a basic M1. 1) tight/tighter stock fit. That could require new Dupage wood or simply achieving a tighter lock-up with the existing stock by one of the various bedding methods. If you don’t want to do the classic “Match-prep” bedding like the Pros do, you can still get a tighter lock-up using thin strips of veneer wood glued to the flats on the underside of the stock where the trigger guard contacts it when locked shut. Call it the “Bubba-bedding” method. It does work though. 2) peen the barrel splines, as was said, to mate the gas cylinder solidly to barrel and stop rotational play shot-to-shot, …. BUT before that, don’t forget also to ream out the rear ring of the g.c. to gain about .001 clearance so it’s no longer touching the barrel. The g.c.’s only contact point is where it’s locked onto the barrel by the peening. 3) you don’t want the front or rear hand guards causing binding or torque as the barrel heats up from firing. So the front hand guard needs to be made “loose” back from the g.c., and the wood on the rear hand guard needs to be relieved (trimmed back) to create about a clear, even 1/16th gap (the width of a credit card should be enough) between the front of the receiver and the end of the rear hand guard. There should be no contact with the receiver. 4) smoothing up the trigger pull. You don’t need a super-light release, just a clean smooth pull up to a reasonable second-stage break. Works for me.  |
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LA, USA
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Posted: 7/24/2023 4:42:16 PM EST
[#9]
M-Pro 7 PERIOD!! GI brass bore brush barracks cleaning rod from CMP, WW2 brushes from Dupage NOS= new looking bore in short order.
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Posted: 7/24/2023 7:17:23 PM EST
[#10]
Dropping it in a new, tight-fitting stock set can also do wonders.
If it's not a PITA to get the trigger guard locked and unlocked, it's probably too loose and will negatively impact accuracy. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 7/25/2023 9:41:17 AM EST
[Last Edit: TommyChong]
[#11]
I have a rack grade M1 Garand that is shooting about a foot high from point of aim at a hundred yards with the rear sight's elevation bottomed out, the trigger guard has no resistance when closing, I am thinking I need a new stock.
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USA
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Posted: 7/25/2023 11:50:07 AM EST
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TommyChong: I have a rack grade M1 Garand that is shooting about a foot high from point of aim at a hundred yards with the rear sight's elevation bottomed out, the trigger guard has no resistance when closing, I am thinking I need a new stock. ... or a new front sight blade. Measure the height of yours to see if someone filed it down so they could go to longer ranges. They are inexpensive and easily replaced. |
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USA
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Posted: 7/25/2023 11:54:44 AM EST
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By VK2XXM: M-Pro 7 PERIOD!! GI brass bore brush barracks cleaning rod from CMP, WW2 brushes from Dupage NOS= new looking bore in short order. JB Bore Paste has already cleaned the barrel. No other cleaner, even with bristle brushes came anywhere near close to cleaning the bore. |
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USA
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Posted: 7/25/2023 11:56:59 AM EST
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Seven-Shooter: Dropping it in a new, tight-fitting stock set can also do wonders. If it's not a PITA to get the trigger guard locked and unlocked, it's probably too loose and will negatively impact accuracy. Hmm,... maybe I could drop it into one of my other stocks to see if that helps. I doubt it, as fit in this stock is pretty good, but that is a no-cost test prior to rebarreling. |
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USA
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Posted: 7/25/2023 12:06:03 PM EST
[Last Edit: Trollslayer]
[#15]
This the accuracy of the rifle as it stands. I may test it some more (because shooting is fun) but have no hope for it.
25 yards - deceptively promising due to short distance  100 yards - pretty typical of prior tests by 3 different shooters 
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Posted: 7/26/2023 8:36:43 AM EST
[#16]
I bought a new National Match M1 Garand from Springfield Armory in the mid 1980's. Could never get it to shoot better than 6 moa. M72 and 168 SMK's shot a little better.
I decided to have it completely rebuilt to NM standards with a new medium weight Douglas barrel. When I got it back it was a 6 moa gun, that shot a little better with M72 or 168 SMK's. At least I tried..... Some rifles have gremlins. Although this commercial version rifle with a cast receiver should perform much better than it does on paper, I can't get it to perform. My brother's DCM rifle purchased around the same time frame was a hammer after I sent it to Glen Nelson for accuracy work. It had been entirely rebuilt by the Army in the early 1960's and placed in storage. It still had pencil writing on the trigger group with dates and initials of whoever worked on it. Try 46.0 grains of IMR-4895 with 168 grain SMK's seated around 3.250" and report back. You can use the same data with 175 grain SMK's, but I consider that a maximum load in a Garand, you might want to start lower by at least 1.0 grain. .5 grain increments with this powder equals around 25 fps difference in velocity when fired from a 24" barrel. |
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USA
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Posted: 7/26/2023 11:56:48 AM EST
[Last Edit: Trollslayer]
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By borderpatrol: Try 46.0 grains of IMR-4895 with 168 grain SMK's seated around 3.250" and report back. You can use the same data with 175 grain SMK's, but I consider that a maximum load in a Garand, you might want to start lower by at least 1.0 grain. .5 grain increments with this powder equals around 25 fps difference in velocity when fired from a 24" barrel. Thanks for the info and encouragement. I have tried so many different bullets and loads in this rifle and have tried so many different times, I can disappointedly say they will not help. I have probably already tried that combination, most likely with 168's. The target was fired using the 175's and IMR4895. This is typical grouping for this rifle. I am sure the group is a little bigger than the rifle is capable of, as it includes a cold, clean bore shot and I am out of practice with it. Still, when in practice and properly sighted in, it can barely hold the black. |
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OR, USA
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Posted: 7/26/2023 1:47:41 PM EST
[#18]
I overlooked one important item, the crown. What does it look like? Boat tail bullets will likely be effected by a poor crown more than flat based bullets. Before changing barrels it may be useful to cut the crown. If the rifling is poor near the crown than just replace the barrel.
You might also take a close look and see if the barrel is slightly bent. It may be hard to see if it is. You can also try jamming a shim in between the bottom of the stock ferrel and lower band. If there is no stock pressure on the band pulling the barrel down, the barrel will whip like a 1903 will do. |
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USA
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Posted: 7/26/2023 1:53:29 PM EST
[Last Edit: Trollslayer]
[#19]
Originally Posted By borderpatrol: Try 46.0 grains of IMR-4895 with 168 grain SMK's seated around 3.250" and report back. You can use the same data with 175 grain SMK's, but I consider that a maximum load in a Garand, you might want to start lower by at least 1.0 grain. .5 grain increments with this powder equals around 25 fps difference in velocity when fired from a 24" barrel. Never satisfied with defeat, I will load some of this exact recipe and try again next time I go. |
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USA
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Posted: 7/28/2023 1:55:22 PM EST
[Last Edit: Trollslayer]
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By pepe-lepew: I overlooked one important item, the crown. What does it look like? Boat tail bullets will likely be effected by a poor crown more than flat based bullets. Before changing barrels it may be useful to cut the crown. If the rifling is poor near the crown than just replace the barrel. You might also take a close look and see if the barrel is slightly bent. It may be hard to see if it is. You can also try jamming a shim in between the bottom of the stock ferrel and lower band. If there is no stock pressure on the band pulling the barrel down, the barrel will whip like a 1903 will do. The crown is fine. The rifling at the muzzle is also fine, albeit a little bit worn. I do not have a throat erosion gage but the barrel is worn. I don't think it is bent based on having looked down the bore. THE SHIM - this is so easy to do, I will try it on my next trip. Both sights are tight. Splines were peened before gas cylinder was installed. All screws are tight. It hasn't been bedded (and I don't want to do that) but lock up is reasonably firm (not at all loose). |
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USA
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Posted: 8/3/2023 12:26:26 AM EST
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By pepe-lepew: You can also try jamming a shim in between the bottom of the stock ferrel and lower band. If there is no stock pressure on the band pulling the barrel down, the barrel will whip like a 1903 will do. I had the rifle out of the safe today. Lock up is reasonably tight but it could be opened up without tools. There was some slop between the lower band and the stock ferrule. I inserted a paper shim (thin card stock) and that removed it. Paper won't last more than a few shot, if even that. I also cut some strips of aluminum and am taking those with me on the next range trip. We will see if that helps. I've put off for decades the re-barrelling of this rifle. I'm going to research price and availability for replacement barrels. |
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USA
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Posted: 8/4/2023 10:37:35 PM EST
[Last Edit: Trollslayer]
[#22]
@pepe-lepew
Originally Posted By pepe-lepew: You can also try jamming a shim in between the bottom of the stock ferrel and lower band. If there is no stock pressure on the band pulling the barrel down, the barrel will whip like a 1903 will do. This worked like a CHARM! I fired the smallest groups ever from this rifle. I'll post photos after I measure the targets (tomorrow). The paper shim worked fine but the aluminum shim was even better. Thank you. |
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AK, USA
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Posted: 8/5/2023 7:32:33 AM EST
[#23]
Anyone got a pic or diagram of where this shim should go?
I'm having a hard time picturing it. |
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TN, USA
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Posted: 8/5/2023 7:34:18 AM EST
[#24]
I've seriously wanted to try this. I mean, seriously, bronze is softer than steel.
https://youtu.be/shqUtDdX4QM |
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USA
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Posted: 8/5/2023 11:51:38 AM EST
[Last Edit: Trollslayer]
[#25]
This image shows three different groups all fired at 25 yards.
These are NOT great groups (several of you responded while I was still constructing the thread) but they are better than they were. You will notice there are several doubles. The groups would easily fit inside the black. Without the shim, this rifle could barely keep them in the black. What is really good about these groups is I could tell that it was ME who made them as large as they are - the shots went right where I put them. You will notice there are several doubles. That is very different, and better, than without the shim without which there was a noticable randomness to the impacts. The left and center were fired using Borderpatrol's 46.0 gr IMR4895, CCI #41 primer, LC 68 MATCH brass and 168 SMK seated to 3.25". The right hand one is the similar except for 47.0 gr and a 175 PRVI bullet. 
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Posted: 8/5/2023 12:09:04 PM EST
[#26]
Cool. I had a 1942 SA Korean return that had massive pits, gauged a 6 and didn’t shoot as well as yours. Got a new 2000ish SA that may be even worse. I had delusions of someday shooting in a match.
I may as well get a bayonet for it because it’s not exactly a long range shooter.  Off to search Numrich… |
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USA
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Posted: 8/5/2023 1:06:51 PM EST
[Last Edit: Trollslayer]
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By akchef: Anyone got a pic or diagram of where this shim should go? I'm having a hard time picturing it. I may be able to get a photo later today. In the mean time,... If you separate the stock from the action, you will notice, at the very front of the stock, the stock ferrule has a small, semicircular protrusion (a tongue). That tongue fits into a circular hole in the barrel band of the action. On mine, there was slop between the two parts and even after lock up there was still a little rattle space. I made a narrow shim from aluminum sheet stock that I have (8 mil thick aluminum roof flashing material). A soda can might also work but, like aluminum foil, it might be too thin. I used a scissors to make the cuts in the flashing. Wrap the shim around the outside of the tongue. Fold the ends of the shim over and down inside the ferrule to secure it in place while you work. Reassemble the rifle making sure the shim stays in place. |
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Posted: 8/5/2023 2:06:25 PM EST
[Last Edit: borderpatrol]
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Karankawa: Cool. I had a 1942 SA Korean return that had massive pits, gauged a 6 and didn’t shoot as well as yours. Got a new 2000ish SA that may be even worse. I had delusions of someday shooting in a match. I may as well get a bayonet for it because it’s not exactly a long range shooter. Off to search Numrich… 46.0 grains, please correct your typo so nobody uses it by mistake. |
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Posted: 8/5/2023 2:09:12 PM EST
[#29]
You can load them longer (3.340" max) provided you don't get feeding or function problems. 3.320" is common.
3.250" is really reliable and Sierra Match Kings don't mind being jumped to the rifling. |
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Posted: 8/5/2023 2:41:38 PM EST
[#30]
@borderpatrol You made a mistake while pointing out a mistake.
Has anyone tried the 16” Chinese reproduction bayonets? Sarco |
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USA
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Posted: 8/5/2023 3:01:31 PM EST
[Last Edit: Trollslayer]
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By borderpatrol: 46.0 grains, please correct your typo so nobody uses it by mistake. Fixed it, thanks for pointing it out. 46.0 worked well. 47.0 also works, even with the slightly heavier bullet. Next time I reload, I will be using 46.0 gr, instead of 47.0 gr. |
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Posted: 8/5/2023 3:35:29 PM EST
[#32]
As a reloading newb I use 4.1 gr of powder in a pistol load. That helps put the power of 30.06 in perspective.
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USA
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Posted: 8/5/2023 7:54:08 PM EST
[#33]
The aluminum shim I used was 8 mil thick.
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USA
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Posted: 8/7/2023 12:32:06 PM EST
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By borderpatrol: I bought a new National Match M1 Garand from Springfield Armory in the mid 1980's. Could never get it to shoot better than 6 moa. M72 and 168 SMK's shot a little better. I decided to have it completely rebuilt to NM standards with a new medium weight Douglas barrel. When I got it back it was a 6 moa gun, that shot a little better with M72 or 168 SMK's. At least I tried..... Some rifles have gremlins. Although this commercial version rifle with a cast receiver should perform much better than it does on paper, I can't get it to perform. My brother's DCM rifle purchased around the same time frame was a hammer after I sent it to Glen Nelson for accuracy work. It had been entirely rebuilt by the Army in the early 1960's and placed in storage. It still had pencil writing on the trigger group with dates and initials of whoever worked on it. Try 46.0 grains of IMR-4895 with 168 grain SMK's seated around 3.250" and report back. You can use the same data with 175 grain SMK's, but I consider that a maximum load in a Garand, you might want to start lower by at least 1.0 grain. .5 grain increments with this powder equals around 25 fps difference in velocity when fired from a 24" barrel. The bad accuracy followed the receiver? I’d check to see if both bolt lugs made sufficient contact with the reciever at lock up. |
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USA
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Posted: 8/7/2023 12:36:32 PM EST
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Karankawa: @borderpatrol You made a mistake while pointing out a mistake. Has anyone tried the 16” Chinese reproduction bayonets? Sarco Garbage although I bought mine from Cheaper than Dirt or Sportsman’s Guide. I returned it. |
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Posted: 8/9/2023 12:18:39 AM EST
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SteelonSteel: Garbage although I bought mine from Cheaper than Dirt or Sportsman’s Guide. I returned it. Bummer. I already ordered one from eBay. At least it was cheap. |
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USA
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Posted: 8/9/2023 12:40:21 PM EST
[#37]
Please take any further off-topic bayonet discussion out of this thread.
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Posted: 8/9/2023 10:57:13 PM EST
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SteelonSteel: The bad accuracy followed the receiver? I’d check to see if both bolt lugs made sufficient contact with the reciever at lock up. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SteelonSteel: Originally Posted By borderpatrol: I bought a new National Match M1 Garand from Springfield Armory in the mid 1980's. Could never get it to shoot better than 6 moa. M72 and 168 SMK's shot a little better. I decided to have it completely rebuilt to NM standards with a new medium weight Douglas barrel. When I got it back it was a 6 moa gun, that shot a little better with M72 or 168 SMK's. At least I tried..... Some rifles have gremlins. Although this commercial version rifle with a cast receiver should perform much better than it does on paper, I can't get it to perform. My brother's DCM rifle purchased around the same time frame was a hammer after I sent it to Glen Nelson for accuracy work. It had been entirely rebuilt by the Army in the early 1960's and placed in storage. It still had pencil writing on the trigger group with dates and initials of whoever worked on it. Try 46.0 grains of IMR-4895 with 168 grain SMK's seated around 3.250" and report back. You can use the same data with 175 grain SMK's, but I consider that a maximum load in a Garand, you might want to start lower by at least 1.0 grain. .5 grain increments with this powder equals around 25 fps difference in velocity when fired from a 24" barrel. The bad accuracy followed the receiver? I’d check to see if both bolt lugs made sufficient contact with the reciever at lock up. I had fired close to 2000 rounds through it, mostly ball ammo and M72 clones before throwing in the towel. The bolt should have mated to the receiver by then. |
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Posted: 8/9/2023 10:57:49 PM EST
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Trollslayer: Fixed it, thanks for pointing it out. 46.0 worked well. 47.0 also works, even with the slightly heavier bullet. Next time I reload, I will be using 46.0 gr, instead of 47.0 gr. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Trollslayer: Originally Posted By borderpatrol: 46.0 grains, please correct your typo so nobody uses it by mistake. Fixed it, thanks for pointing it out. 46.0 worked well. 47.0 also works, even with the slightly heavier bullet. Next time I reload, I will be using 46.0 gr, instead of 47.0 gr. Glad I could help. |
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USA
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Posted: 10/27/2023 8:40:34 PM EST
[Last Edit: Trollslayer]
[#40]
I got a chance to shoot this rifle again with shim. It was only 50 yards but the group was just under 3 MOA. It might be the best group ever from this rifle.
I'll post a picture tomorrow. These are really nice rifles. The weight doesn't bother me, it's one of the lightest rifles I own. I love the sights - they might be the greatest innovation on this rifle. I also love the POOM! THWACK! when shooting steel. It hits with some authority. 223 just doesn't compare. |
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USA
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Posted: 10/29/2023 7:22:27 PM EST
[Last Edit: Trollslayer]
[#41]
Here's the pic I promised. Better late than never.
It worked out to be 2.9 MOA at 50 yards which is very good for this rifle.  I was shooting rimfire that day, hence, the 50 yard distance. |
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