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Posted: 5/26/2023 12:52:32 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It’s a valid concern for people in purple states who might get grandfathered in with current ownership but future purchases made illegal Perfect example of a requirement/use case that can drive the ‘optimal’ decision. Another confounding value judgement aspect is opportunity costs. Two Turbo-k for a husband and wife varmint team might have higher value than a grail suppressor on only one rifle. |
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Posted: 5/26/2023 3:28:20 PM EDT
[#2]
A bit of a tangent, but why are some folks so worried about a potential 10K service life?
There are many barrels that approach the same price, with a life of 1500-2000 rounds and folks love them. Personally, I would rather plan to buy another silencer than another barrel. With a suppressor it's money and waiting. With a barrel it's money, fitting the barrel, redoing all your loads, rezero, and hoping it shoots decently. Most of the time, if you can burn out a can you've got more than enough money to buy another. Car ties, shoes, all kinds of stuff wears out and need s to be replaced if you use it enough. I get the lifetime investment--- I really do, but very few people ever put 10,000 rounds through a silencer. The ones that frequently do, generally buy backups and always have suppressors in the mix. It certainly isn't their only can. Do I hate that I have a $800 barrel with a 1200-round life expectancy? Nope, I wish it was more (round count) but I understand that 1/4 MOA and 1200+ yards comes with a price. |
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Posted: 5/26/2023 4:18:01 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A bit of a tangent, but why are some folks so worried about a potential 10K service life? Because I have rifles approaching that #. Every can I own can be repaired if I baffle strike/wear it out. You want to buy a can that can't be repaired or recorded? Go nuts! Edit: I see you're trying to make a comparison with barrels. They are not subject to a nfa tax, they do not require an unnecessary wait , and they are not regulated in any way shape or form. MOST barrels are also not 800-1000+ dollars. |
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Posted: 5/26/2023 4:31:59 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A bit of a tangent, but why are some folks so worried about a potential 10K service life? There are many barrels that approach the same price, with a life of 1500-2000 rounds and folks love them. Personally, I would rather plan to buy another silencer than another barrel. With a suppressor it's money and waiting. With a barrel it's money, fitting the barrel, redoing all your loads, rezero, and hoping it shoots decently. Most of the time, if you can burn out a can you've got more than enough money to buy another. Car ties, shoes, all kinds of stuff wears out and need s to be replaced if you use it enough. I get the lifetime investment--- I really do, but very few people ever put 10,000 rounds through a silencer. The ones that frequently do, generally buy backups and always have suppressors in the mix. It certainly isn't their only can. Do I hate that I have a $800 barrel with a 1200-round life expectancy? Nope, I wish it was more (round count) but I understand that 1/4 MOA and 1200+ yards comes with a price. This is definitely an outlier scenario. If you guys catch me trying to get into a barrel that costs me $800+fitting and needs to be replaced every 1200 rounds, hit me in the head with a 2x4, deal? 
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Posted: 5/26/2023 4:56:04 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This is definitely an outlier scenario. If you guys catch me trying to get into a barrel that costs me $800+fitting and needs to be replaced every 1200 rounds, hit me in the head with a 2x4, deal? Don't own 22 Creedmoor! |
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Posted: 5/26/2023 7:38:52 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Don't own 22 Creedmoor! I shoot some .308. It is pretty tame, but the Army was getting 20,000 round M24 barrel life at 1/3MOA. Target discrimination is tough beyond 800 meters. Reloading when I was a kid was as simple as how much money do you have to spend. Today, you have to be a specialist in how to find and purchase components because apparently either everyone is in it, or there is some great component shortage. I understand what he's saying though, one of the guys in the shop just said Bartlein is a 6 month wait right now for a barrel. Speaking of waitlisted / obscure items, one of our front house guys just visited a Rolex authorized dealer to inquire about their electronic access control, remote wrist keyfob door technology provider for our future showroom. He had a brief conversation with one of the owners, and the owner said there are only two AD's in Wisconsin, and the one he visited mentioned he is allocated 8 Submariners per year and the wait list is like 60 people long right now (like a five year wait list because some people lose interest). In security contracting, a sub wasn't super common, but a few guys wore them on contract maybe like one guy in every 48 people. I thought they were common. I didn't know they made one new Submariner for every 368,500 people in Wisconsin per year. The guy is kind of a watch enthusiast and I said I wonder how many Patek Philippe watches are sold in light of that. He told me one other detail- that a customer has to be invited / added to a client list to buy a patek.  They are so rare, that a person cannot just purchase a Patek. That's humorously absurd sounding to me. |
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Posted: 5/27/2023 3:45:30 AM EDT
[#7]
For what it's worth, I talked to the guys from Huxwrx at CANCON. The one thing preventing me from ordering one was the old listed service life. They said they were going to remove the 10k number as it was based on never cleaning with full auto through 10.3. They said as long as you clean it every few thousand rounds, you can expect 30-40k service life. They said even at that point they will replace for free. Between that and shooting it I was convinced.
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Posted: 5/27/2023 11:39:23 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: For what it's worth, I talked to the guys from Huxwrx at CANCON. The one thing preventing me from ordering one was the old listed service life. They said they were going to remove the 10k number as it was based on never cleaning with full auto through 10.3. They said as long as you clean it every few thousand rounds, you can expect 30-40k service life. They said even at that point they will replace for free. Between that and shooting it I was convinced. It sounds like they are betting very, very few will shoot enough to wear it out, and I think that's a pretty good bet. |
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Posted: 5/27/2023 1:20:47 PM EDT
[#9]
Their mounting system seems bulletproof. The only way I think someone is going to get a baffle strike is from bad threads.
Self tightens when shooting |
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Posted: 5/27/2023 2:58:45 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So if you wear it out, basically they send a new one to your local SOT and you just pay the tax stamp? I wonder if it's the same deal if you put a round through the endcap? It sounds like they are betting very, very few will shoot enough to wear it out, and I think that's a pretty good bet. Most of the companies in the firearms industry make these kind of bets and they play out pretty predictably. I knew some people selling one of the larger AR company products, and they were saying most customers will shoot less than 400 rounds ever through a rifle with a smile like quality doesn't matter. I've always thought the product should be as durable as is reasonably possible, and no such bets should be made. |
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Posted: 5/27/2023 4:01:30 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Most of the companies in the firearms industry make these kind of bets and they play out pretty predictably. I knew some people selling one of the larger AR company products, and they were saying most customers will shoot less than 400 rounds ever through a rifle with a smile like quality doesn't matter. I've always thought the product should be as durable as is reasonably possible, and no such bets should be made. Why pay the purchase price, operating costs and other caveats of a Ford Superduty when a base Maverick would easily meet all my needs? |
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Posted: 5/27/2023 4:17:44 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: OTOH I don't want to pay for and deal with the caveats of capabilities I'll never need. Why pay the purchase price, operating costs and other caveats of a Ford Superduty when a base Maverick would easily meet all my needs? That's another way to look at it. It's tough to try to find a great place on the price to value spectrum. I have a newer Colt 1911, and one from 1918 production, and the 1918 gun has better fit than the 2017 gun. That means some person working with manual machines and with pride in his work, put more soul into the 1918 gun with a lot less technology and lower capabilities. I think Ford should put 4A in the XLT- the cost of the parts is like identical- it should be standard. That's a nice place on the price - value curve. I had a small independent owner/operator shop install 4A with forscan edits and component replacement like a lariat on my wife's essentially XLT Sport 4x4. All wheel drive with 4L 4H would be a cool implementation too for the future of the Ford truck if that was possible. |
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Posted: 5/27/2023 11:14:42 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So if you wear it out, basically they send a new one to your local SOT and you just pay the tax stamp? I wonder if it's the same deal if you put a round through the endcap? It sounds like they are betting very, very few will shoot enough to wear it out, and I think that's a pretty good bet. Not exactly sure. They said they would "take care of you" which based on my conversation with them I took as replacing it. They were a really great group of guys. I seriously doubt many of their customers will reach that kind of round count. |
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Posted: 5/28/2023 6:11:17 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A bit of a tangent, but why are some folks so worried about a potential 10K service life? There are many barrels that approach the same price, with a life of 1500-2000 rounds and folks love them. Personally, I would rather plan to buy another silencer than another barrel. With a suppressor it's money and waiting. With a barrel it's money, fitting the barrel, redoing all your loads, rezero, and hoping it shoots decently. Most of the time, if you can burn out a can you've got more than enough money to buy another. Car ties, shoes, all kinds of stuff wears out and need s to be replaced if you use it enough. I get the lifetime investment--- I really do, but very few people ever put 10,000 rounds through a silencer. The ones that frequently do, generally buy backups and always have suppressors in the mix. It certainly isn't their only can. Do I hate that I have a $800 barrel with a 1200-round life expectancy? Nope, I wish it was more (round count) but I understand that 1/4 MOA and 1200+ yards comes with a price. Love you guys but.... Are you serious? You work at a company where you sell suppressors... There is ZERO (ok, maybe .0001%) chance of a legislative ban regarding BARRELS. There is a very real chance that suppressor ownership could be banned or severely limited. There is no wait for a barrel. You simply go buy one. There is a very real chance of an unknown time frame before your suppressor is approved, if its approved. There are factors there that are completely out of the individuals control. There is a 200 dollar fee attached to the privileges of owning a suppressor. There is no such tax on a damned barrel... For someone that is not a high volume shooter, why would they care about a flow through design? There are other, competing suppressors in the same price range that will go 50-100k rounds with minimal baffle erosion. Hell, Griffin will re-core your damn can.. Maybe i'm reading into it too much but your post reads from the point of view of someone who has lost perspective of what the average NFA consumer experiences. It's not a "fun" buying experience. That's odd to be considering you guys sell the damn things... |
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Posted: 5/28/2023 7:32:11 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There are other, competing suppressors in the same price range that will go 50-100k rounds with minimal baffle erosion. Bullshit. Also, this was from the previously cited thread asking OSS about service life: “Here’s the reply I got from Huxwrx when I inquired about the service life: ‘If it is not cleaned, then by the 10k round mark it will be so full of carbon and lead build up that it will no longer be flow through. If you clean it every 1500 rounds, then It will last 10's of thousands of rounds. We have 2 that have over 50k rounds on them from testing that are still going strong and were cleaned every 1500 rounds. We also have a handful that were never cleaned and are clogged up around the 10k round count. Best, James Boone Customer Service Specialist’” You can throw it in a ultrasonic cleaner. It’s all 17-4. Just give it a CLR bath once in awhile. |
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Posted: 5/28/2023 8:58:43 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: For someone that is not a high volume shooter, why would they care about a flow through design? I don't care if it's not the quietest suppressor out there. I just want something to get me down to the point where I can comfortably wear just my electronic ear protection to clearly hear the environment around me and not need to double up on both muffs and foamies. I'm not really concerned about wearing it out. I have multiple guns and suppressors to spread the round count across. Just one use case. We all have different wants, needs and expectations. |
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Posted: 5/28/2023 10:00:42 AM EDT
[#17]
I own both the gen2 and this new flow556k. New one is lighter, smaller and sounds way better. I’m sold. Also the New 762 flow drops tomorrow.
 
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Posted: 5/28/2023 11:26:59 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I own both the gen2 and this new flow556k. New one is lighter, smaller and sounds way better. I’m sold. Also the New 762 flow drops tomorrow. https://i.imgur.io/QokHCBj_d.webp?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium https://i.imgur.io/leofIdL_d.webp?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium Exciting. Day 1 purchase for me on the 762 can also. Literally can’t wait to have these. Replacing everything. Done with all the issues that plague archaic suppressor tech. |
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Posted: 5/28/2023 12:23:30 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Exciting. Day 1 purchase for me on the 762 can also. Literally can’t wait to have these. Replacing everything. Done with all the issues that plague archaic suppressor tech. A bolt/manual action and a highly restricted can might be archaic, but will likely always be the quietest system, and very tolerant of sub-optimal or oddball ammunition. Literally different strokes. |
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Posted: 5/28/2023 3:57:30 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A bolt/manual action and a highly restricted can might be archaic, but will likely always be the quietest system, and very tolerant of sub-optimal or oddball ammunition. Literally different strokes. That said, I really want a suppressed levergun. |
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Posted: 5/28/2023 6:51:16 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's a whole different category. That said, I really want a suppressed levergun. He mentioned Day 1 in on wait for 7.62 can. To me that opened the categories up. 
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Posted: 5/28/2023 8:33:05 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: He mentioned Day 1 in on wait for 7.62 can. To me that opened the categories up. I have a ruger ranch in 556 collecting large amounts of dust. I'm going to compare the flow to the sierra 5 on it. |
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Posted: 5/29/2023 1:14:33 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have a ruger ranch in 556 collecting large amounts of dust. I'm going to compare the flow to the sierra 5 on it. The Sierra will stomp it on a bolt gun. Unless you're talking about a Mini 14 Ranch rifle. |
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Posted: 5/29/2023 11:46:04 AM EDT
[#24]
My two new favorite cans are the Dual Lok 5 and the Huxwrx Flow. They both reduce gas blowback (flow is better IMO), both sound similar (flow is better from a shooter’s perspective IMO). I wanted something different that reduced back pressure for my piston guns. These two cans do exactly what I wanted from them. I like to have 2-3 host per can, I wouldn’t have a problem purchasing either one of these cans as my collection continues to grow.
[instagram]https://www.instagram.com/reel/CrsJQSFPfPhLZNWb3TTP4TmlCkC5wBmsTiyvfI0/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==[/instagram] |
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Posted: 5/29/2023 4:04:01 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The Sierra will stomp it on a bolt gun. Unless you're talking about a Mini 14 Ranch rifle. No its a bolt action 556. Was able to get out and do this today. They sound different but I cannot tell any difference in loudness. Hard to explain. Def not like shooting it on a semi auto. |
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Posted: 5/30/2023 3:28:32 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So it seems that the downside is the potential shorter life expectancy. Nope. That's not the only "downside". There is also, objectively, the fact that you can't repair them without affecting the serial number/NFA/Etc., and the subjective, but consistent, complaint that the sound is less pleasing than Griffin's and DA's offerings. ETA: And the new name is lame as all hell. Whoever coined that should be let go with extreme prejuidice including berating commentary and a foot in the ass as they go out the door. I don't care what it "stands for". It's not catchy, it does not resonate, and, were I casually looking at 20 different 5.56 can offerings on SilencerShop's site, I would passover simply because... |
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Posted: 5/30/2023 8:37:27 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Nope. That's not the only "downside". There is also, objectively, the fact that you can't repair them without affecting the serial number/NFA/Etc., and the subjective, but consistent, complaint that the sound is less pleasing than Griffin's and DA's offerings. ETA: And the new name is lame as all hell. Whoever coined that should be let go with extreme prejuidice including berating commentary and a foot in the ass as they go out the door. I don't care what it "stands for". It's not catchy, it does not resonate, and, were I casually looking at 20 different 5.56 can offerings on SilencerShop's site, I would passover simply because... Read the new thread about the Flow 7.62TI. Huxworx says they can repair the Flow series. |
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Posted: 5/30/2023 8:39:40 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Nope. That's not the only "downside". There is also, objectively, the fact that you can't repair them without affecting the serial number/NFA/Etc., and the subjective, but consistent, complaint that the sound is less pleasing than Griffin's and DA's offerings. Quote HistoryQuoted: Nope. That's not the only "downside". There is also, objectively, the fact that you can't repair them without affecting the serial number/NFA/Etc., and the subjective, but consistent, complaint that the sound is less pleasing than Griffin's and DA's offerings. Source: https://www.ar15.com/forums/Armory/Pew-Science-test-of-the-HuxWrx-Flow-7-62-on-the-Mk-18/20-544693/ Quoted: I have just received the following information from HUXWRX regarding warranty repair of the FLOW series: "...we surgically cut off the end caps, and bore out the cores, then insert a special 3D part that we can insert that is attached to the cap. Then we weld them shut. Doesn't change anything on the performance or sound of them, or tolerances. Pretty amazing stuff." I am highlighting this due to the significant discussion of this topic I have seen online. Hope this helps! Repair is also discussed by a HuxWrx rep in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_T_nJi1FdY&ab_channel=ClassicFirearms |
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Posted: 5/30/2023 8:39:52 AM EDT
[#29]
Quoted: Apparently that's not true. I thought they couldn't be repaired either, but HuxWrx now says they can recore the 3D printed cans. Source: https://www.ar15.com/forums/Armory/Pew-Science-test-of-the-HuxWrx-Flow-7-62-on-the-Mk-18/20-544693/ Repair is also discussed by a HuxWrx rep in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_T_nJi1FdY&ab_channel=ClassicFirearms They also updated their warranty page https://huxwrx.com/warranty |
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Posted: 5/30/2023 9:53:56 AM EDT
[#30]
With all the talk of 3D Printed Cans being "unrepairable", has anyone heard of one needing fixed?
I'd think if it were a big problem/issue, we'd certainly hear stories by now. |
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Posted: 5/30/2023 10:02:23 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: With all the talk of 3D Printed Cans being "unrepairable", has anyone heard of one needing fixed? I'd think if it were a big problem/issue, we'd certainly hear stories by now. The vents at the muzzle are angled to bias the can to self-tighten. I’ve seen one video showing it does seem to offer a limited tightening effect. Given that functionality, I would not expect to see very many baffle strikes. I’ve not seen any reports of baffle strikes with OSS/Hux cans, but I assume there are far fewer in the field than conventional baffled suppressors. I think CGS also has indicated that they can control bore alignment and concentricity much more with 3D printing. I haven’t seen it specifically mentioned, but if you can cutout and replace the entire innards, I think you could also recore a clogged can if the owner neglected to clean it or the cleaning did not work. Whether Hux would do that and whether they would charge you to do that, who knows? |
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Posted: 5/30/2023 11:05:19 AM EDT
[#32]
Baffle strikes are extremely uncommon on any well designed and built suppressor with a decent mounting system. In my experience the way they occur in rifle suppressors, 99% of the time, is people shooting a round that is bigger than the bore of the muzzle adapter or suppressor.
We have three round test fired tens of thousands of cans here mounted to mounts that were just screwed on per the mount type being tested on the given day at least 20,000 of the cans on a single 11.5” 5.56 rifle we took to ~60,000 rds on one of our 416ss barrels. I have not heard of a single can being baffle struck in that process. Thats taking a barrel well past expected service life and still putting bullets reliably through the bore of all of the attached cans. The test is useful to us as it is a failsafe way to find any material qc problems that were delivered to us from the American steel mill. The American mills are in my belief, the best in the world, but one bad bar of stock in 100 tons of material can make many unsafe cans that can be easily detected in test fire. All the cans get visually inspected after the test fire. There are some brands that have made baffle strikes appear common, and others who have used baffle strike fear mongering in sales pitches. “Its not a matter of if, but when you will have a baffle strike.” That can be a method of selling a warranty clause or a replaceable front cap for example. The lies create false perception of reality. |
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Posted: 5/30/2023 11:07:51 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Baffle strikes are extremely uncommon on any well designed and built suppressor with a decent mounting system. In my experience the way they occur in rifle suppressors, 99% of the time, is people shooting a round that is bigger than the bore of the muzzle adapter or suppressor. We have three round test fired tens of thousands of cans here mounted to mounts that were just screwed on per the mount type being tested on the given day at least 20,000 of the cans on a single 11.5” 5.56 rifle we took to ~60,000 rds on one of our 416ss barrels. I have not heard of a single can being baffle struck in that process. Thats taking a barrel well past expected service life and still putting bullets reliably through the bore of all of the attached cans. The test is useful to us as it is a failsafe way to find any material qc problems that were delivered to us from the American steel mill. The American mills are in my belief, the best in the world, but one bad bar of stock in 100 tons of material can make many unsafe cans that can be easily detected in test fire. All the cans get visually inspected after the test fire. There are some brands that have made baffle strikes appear common, and others who have used baffle strike fear mongering in sales pitches. “Its not a matter of if, but when you will have a baffle strike.” That can be a method of selling a warranty clause or a replaceable front cap for example. The lies create false perception of reality. I'm sure the fear mongering helps alignment rod sales too. Glad you confirmed that this is pretty much a rare occurrence when properly used. |
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Posted: 5/30/2023 11:27:00 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: With all the talk of 3D Printed Cans being "unrepairable", has anyone heard of one needing fixed? I'd think if it were a big problem/issue, we'd certainly hear stories by now. It's like an insurance policy. You're betting something bad will happen, and they are betting it won't. You hope you're making the bad bet and that they are not. |
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Posted: 5/30/2023 6:18:14 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm sure the fear mongering helps alignment rod sales too. Glad you confirmed that this is pretty much a rare occurrence when properly used. The biggest reason for alignment issues being rare is that standard American threads like 5/8x24 and 1/2x28 that are factory cut are generally very accurate attachment systems, and they are the most prolific systems in use. There are good reasons for alignment rods. For the most part it seems consumers are smart, and kind of know when what they are putting together is an inexperienced gunsmith special, or old beat up mil-surplus, middle eastern, or communist block quasi slave labor guns, which are either totally borderline and/or unorthodox and this is where check rods can be useful for people who don't want to squint and trust their ability to see alignment with their naked eye. Mil surplus guns were mostly built with zero intention of ever aligning a muzzle accessory. Guns like the FN FAL where the lead thread might be a hanging thread that runs off the muzzle like a burr, or like the AK where the muzzle isn't square and the closest thing to a thread shoulder is a casting that isn't even part of the barrel, and the spring loaded pin is the intended retention system. |
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Posted: 6/1/2023 12:36:51 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If you don't already know, the flow556k has a 10-20k service life (per their manual) and no way to be repaired. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I am talking about over my lifetime with all different suppressors. I only put a few hundred rounds down the huxwrx. I dont own one. If you don't already know, the flow556k has a 10-20k service life (per their manual) and no way to be repaired. Then ill never buy one I know they could careless |
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Posted: 6/1/2023 12:43:31 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Then ill never buy one I know they could careless Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: I am talking about over my lifetime with all different suppressors. I only put a few hundred rounds down the huxwrx. I dont own one. If you don't already know, the flow556k has a 10-20k service life (per their manual) and no way to be repaired. Then ill never buy one I know they could careless You may want to look at the rest of the thread. 10-20 k is until the ports are clogged with never cleaning. With cleaning they are saying at least 30-40k. They can also re core them.. |
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Posted: 6/1/2023 8:29:51 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Then ill never buy one I know they could careless Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: I am talking about over my lifetime with all different suppressors. I only put a few hundred rounds down the huxwrx. I dont own one. If you don't already know, the flow556k has a 10-20k service life (per their manual) and no way to be repaired. Then ill never buy one I know they could careless See the info I reproduced in post #15, above. |
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Posted: 6/1/2023 11:30:15 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: See the info I reproduced in post #15, above. i believe ive already mentioned it in this thread, but they seemed to have removed the 556k's service life from the white paper. they also never stated their flow line up could be repaired until monday of this week when the flow 762 ti was released. IMO, they should have announced this stuff when the flow 556k was released. it doesnt make sense to me why they would keep the repairable bit out of any thing they published until now. yes, baffle strikes/bad ammo are a rare occurrence, but it can happen. i also wonder why the 556k service life is just now being updated, i also wonder if it will change again down the line. |
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Posted: 6/1/2023 2:14:28 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: i believe ive already mentioned it in this thread, but they seemed to have removed the 556k's service life from the white paper. they also never stated their flow line up could be repaired until monday of this week when the flow 762 ti was released. IMO, they should have announced this stuff when the flow 556k was released. it doesnt make sense to me why they would keep the repairable bit out of any thing they published until now. yes, baffle strikes/bad ammo are a rare occurrence, but it can happen. i also wonder why the 556k service life is just now being updated, i also wonder if it will change again down the line. They may have just developed the repair procedure. No reason to think they always knew and were hiding it. It’s an unorthodox solution to a problem relatively unique to 3D printed suppressors, which in turn are a relatively new tech. Regarding service life, it’s pretty common to be on the low side. People confuse service life with useful life. HK pistols are frequently listed as having a service life to exceed 20,000rds or minimum service life of 20,000rds. Obviously they last a lot longer. I think people just got the wrong idea from the white paper, so they updated it. It was somewhat confusingly written in my opinion, but I have no reason to doubt what they say about the product’s life with cleaning is true. |
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Posted: 6/2/2023 11:19:15 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: With no way to be repaired, I’d be curious to see how a really “abusive” ammo like Wolf Gold (notorious for etching and eroding blast baffles/muzzle brakes) does in a can like that on 10.3”-16” barrels What makes Wolf Gold notorious for etching & eroding blast baffles/muzzle breaks. First time ever hearing this... |
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Posted: 6/2/2023 11:53:08 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What makes Wolf Gold notorious for etching & eroding blast baffles/muzzle breaks. First time ever hearing this... Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: With no way to be repaired, I’d be curious to see how a really “abusive” ammo like Wolf Gold (notorious for etching and eroding blast baffles/muzzle brakes) does in a can like that on 10.3”-16” barrels What makes Wolf Gold notorious for etching & eroding blast baffles/muzzle breaks. First time ever hearing this... I’m also curious, never heard of such a thing. I’ve got 7K rounds of it and have never had a problem out of it, I shoot 90% suppressed. |
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Posted: 6/3/2023 11:40:37 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Email me. We’ve been in contact and if we can get this in, I would like to try to do testing and show A and Z numbers, and do the AHAAH analysis to allow people to see another data set. We would probably compare it to an M4SDK. We don’t usually show the Z numbers as those include content that isn’t supposed to be human audible and it gets kind of hard to digest but I feel like people are more interested in all the data they can get on this can. |
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Posted: 6/5/2023 11:00:32 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't know I just pulled that vide of our product off the internet. In our testing on M4A1 barrels with the closed tine flash suppressor mount (the worst mount for suppressor flash), and bright magtech M193 ammunition, the mod 4 technology HRT and M4SDK had first round flash and no visible flash thereafter, which is also the same as what the KAC NT4 produced. The Surefire had first round flash and had very, very low flash on the second and third rounds which was barely visible, especially without monitor brightness at 100% on the digital DSLR long aperture photos. We were working R&D recently and reduced existing backpressure in a mod 4 stack about 30%, and we had to improve the front cap flash suppressor to output similar performance. In wide open flow through designs, I feel some characteristics will start to get compromised in the pursuit of zero backpressure. In another irregular system we reduced backpressure further than that, but I haven't combined those features to know if they would play nice together in a 556 mod 4 equivalent system. Sales under Trump were obviously booming which was awesome in that inventory didn't stay in the building for more than 3 months. They have chilled a little bit under the economic recession / Biden, which is allowing us to do more R&D, and military product development is forcing some R&D, however on things that can't all hit the consumer market until inventory is sold. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: What baffle gen for the bottom vid? I don't know I just pulled that vide of our product off the internet. In our testing on M4A1 barrels with the closed tine flash suppressor mount (the worst mount for suppressor flash), and bright magtech M193 ammunition, the mod 4 technology HRT and M4SDK had first round flash and no visible flash thereafter, which is also the same as what the KAC NT4 produced. The Surefire had first round flash and had very, very low flash on the second and third rounds which was barely visible, especially without monitor brightness at 100% on the digital DSLR long aperture photos. We were working R&D recently and reduced existing backpressure in a mod 4 stack about 30%, and we had to improve the front cap flash suppressor to output similar performance. In wide open flow through designs, I feel some characteristics will start to get compromised in the pursuit of zero backpressure. In another irregular system we reduced backpressure further than that, but I haven't combined those features to know if they would play nice together in a 556 mod 4 equivalent system. Sales under Trump were obviously booming which was awesome in that inventory didn't stay in the building for more than 3 months. They have chilled a little bit under the economic recession / Biden, which is allowing us to do more R&D, and military product development is forcing some R&D, however on things that can't all hit the consumer market until inventory is sold. Mod5 inbound |
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Posted: 6/6/2023 11:42:51 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Mod5 inbound Ultimately at some point that will probably happen, but we will probably play with it some more to develop it a bit more before we get to it. We need to sell out of existing inventory before we can update the cans, so there is some time to increase the performance of that. I like a fast paced environment. It would be cool to get the economy booming again and increase sales velocity 30% or so to make this stuff more by the minute than it is at present. I bet NFA lead times alone could triple market sales, but at 253 days or whatever they are, they are strongly discouraging purchasing. |
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Posted: 6/6/2023 10:20:40 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I bet NFA lead times alone could triple market sales, but at 253 days or whatever they are, they are strongly discouraging purchasing. That’s a feature, not a bug. |
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Posted: 6/7/2023 4:03:06 AM EDT
[#47]
Quoted: A bit of a tangent, but why are some folks so worried about a potential 10K service life? There are many barrels that approach the same price, with a life of 1500-2000 rounds and folks love them. Personally, I would rather plan to buy another silencer than another barrel. With a suppressor it's money and waiting. With a barrel it's money, fitting the barrel, redoing all your loads, rezero, and hoping it shoots decently. Most of the time, if you can burn out a can you've got more than enough money to buy another. Car ties, shoes, all kinds of stuff wears out and need s to be replaced if you use it enough. I get the lifetime investment--- I really do, but very few people ever put 10,000 rounds through a silencer. The ones that frequently do, generally buy backups and always have suppressors in the mix. It certainly isn't their only can. Do I hate that I have a $800 barrel with a 1200-round life expectancy? Nope, I wish it was more (round count) but I understand that 1/4 MOA and 1200+ yards comes with a price. Because I've never had to wait over a year for a barrel. Because I've never had to interact with the government at all when buying a barrel. |
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Posted: 6/7/2023 10:45:53 AM EDT
[#48]
Regarding the lifespan, it wasn't meant to cause drama, but rather get a different perspective. As in my experience, I don't see service life with that can as having ever been a real-world issue.
I do have barrels as expensive as cans, and have had to wait as long for some of them as NFA items. Some of the cost to get them in can become as expensive as the tax stamp. Then reloading for them is expensive, components are often times difficult, and we've got a host of other issues. What I'm getting at is some of the ultra-high end precision barrels come with a short life, high cost, and long wait. Yes, they are boutique items and not for everyone... but so are some of the ultra-specific cans. NODS is another example. They have a limited life and are very expensive compared to cans. Now I get the government involvement, don't get me wrong. I guess I just see it as the cost of doing business when you want a can with a very specific purpose... but I also think we're still in the early stages of cans like the Flow 556K and 762Ti. I think over the next few years we'll see a lot of changes, so in some aspects, it's also the 'early adopter' side of things also. Ultimately, I just haven't seen it as a problem. I haven't seen a Flow 556K become ruined, 10K rounds or much more. To me, it seems like a theoretical issue that isn't really an issue. |
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Posted: 6/7/2023 1:02:37 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That’s a feature, not a bug. I'm sure you're using sarcasm, but I agree, to a DNC politician, the 253 days of screwing people out of the free exercise of their Constitutional rights, and simultaneously crapping on interstate commerce, probably is a double upsell feature set. If you ask them they would likely say the Constitution doesn't protect silencers, but they would be glossing over the ATF considering them a "firearm" for the purpose of being able to regulate them under NFA. If it is a Firearm, it is without debate constitutionally protected, and I feel in reality the "Arms" in keep and bear arms means everything attached to it, and the magazines, components of ammunition, etc, also including unorthodox implements of war such as drones or grenades, missiles, airplanes, warships, tanks etc. At the onset of the revolutionary war, privately owned cannons were the only cannons used by the American side. The legal precedent is that of private ownership of the highest arms technology of the period. Texians held off the Mexican armies for a time prior to becoming a state and America becoming involved in the Mexican-American war. Private arms ownership is a historical and inextricable component of our identity and existence as Americans. |
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Posted: 6/7/2023 4:34:57 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm sure you're using sarcasm. My take of what Green said is that the long delays dissuade potential buyers, and thus lower the number of items in the registry, making "in common use" harder to argue. |
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