So my neighbor (a long time arfcom lurker) just got some NV the other day and didn't know how to USE it.  I dont mean how to turn it on and I mean how to use it to his advantage.  He has a thermal scanner as part of his job so I was trying to explain how we used NV and thermal in Iraq.  I thought I'd type it up and maybe someone could get some use out if this.


We had three basic techniques
A. We don't want them to know we are there
B. We want them to know "someone" is there but not exactly who or exactly where
C. We want them to know someone is there and where that someone (but not necessarily everyone) is

All methods used the same over watch, a big thermal/magnified NV as a traffic director (the resolution of both was good enough that we could identify IV lines in terrain etc) and a security team, our guys who knew how to sneak around the desert quietly and quickly until such time as other options were required.


Technique A. We don't want them to know we are there.
We usually turned off white light at 10k from the target and walked from 2-5k depending on terrain.  Humvee noise carried a long way in the desert and we did not want a reception.  A detachment stayed with the vehicles (1 driver, 1 gunner each) while the rest of us went for a walk to observe the target.  We traveled passive, no lasers or IR illum, in case the Iraqis had managed to get some NV of their own.  We would set up an over watch position with the thermal to scan for targets and direct traffic and use our PVS-14s to move.  After observing the border station for a few minutes, we would call up the trucks and meet them on the way, hopefully without anyone knowing we were there.  We never had to shoot in these circumstances but if we had to, our plan would be to transition to technique B and engage with small arms if necessary.  Quite a few times, we would do this to known friendly positions just to test us and them.

Technique B. We want them to know "someone" is there but not exactly who or exactly where.
This was used in situations where we weren't sure exactly what we were walking in to.  We would usually start the same as technique A, but after our over watch and security team was in place one of the vehicle crew would start with IR laser/illum looking for a reaction, then at 400m-1k out someone would light a cigarette, turn on a flashlight etc. to make it known they were there then extinguish the light and we would observe for a reaction.  This took us awhile to get right as the reaction was usually a "stand to" whether they were good guy or bad, but we could at least use our security team and over watch to get an idea of the numbers.  This technique was often used as a "rope a dope" (Hey look over here, disregard those moving shadows to your left) if the security team got too close or almost exposed) and allowed us to have an ambush if needed.

Technique C. We want them to know someone is there and where that someone (but not necessarily everyone) is.
We used this in situations where we were expected.  It started the same way until our over watch and security team were in place then the trucks would come driving up, white lights, IR lasers etc.  Over watch and security team would judge the reaction and determine the course of action.  We also used this as a "rope a dope" technique at times.  Sometimes we could drive right up to the fort front door without even being challenged.

We used these various techniques throughout our time there, at one point we had a flat tire and while changing it, our thermal operator noticed that three men were sneaking looks from a ditch up the hill and moving back and forth from a house.  We created a bright white distraction at the front of our formation while three of us slipped out behind the trucks to investigate.  The thermal walked us in and we saw they were getting an RPG and rifles ready to shoot but had no idea they were flanked.  It ended badly for them.

This is all a long way to say how we used thermal and NVG together and to great effect.  It took some practice to get the teams right and is based on basic military tactics but it worked well for us.

It works well if you are in a fixed position too.  The thermal is your "detector" and talks the guys with NV onto the target so they can get a closer look, hopefully without being detected.

Realistically you can do them all with two people but if you don't want someone walking out with a visible firearm or NV, you will need a minimum of three (overwatch guy, "look at me" guy, NV guy).

Great real world info. Thanks !

wow really good thread, I never see anyone posting info along these lines



Anyone else have relevant experience to add?
Tactics, stories, etc?






ETA: I know there are courses but I can't afford that sort of thing, and I know there are MANY guys in that same boat.

You might want to add a few apps to the mix

Tactical Nav
milgps
sitrep
leadnav
www.civtak.org (if you want to go full banzai)

They all have different strengths and weaknesses - all allow you to communicate and drop data to other people in your group and can do live tracking if you so wish.  Keeps everyone on the same page.  

Also you can each get a gotenna mesh and if you are in within a km of each other you can communicate fully OG with real time locations too.

I've heard of civtak before, would sure be cool if it was possible to use it on a non cell network connected or capable android device (though I don't know how you'd get it to communicate through a civ radio, bluetooth linked to dmr maybe?), and with encryption. I guess if you could get it going through the dmr and it's aes equipped (which for these purposes it should be) it'd be automatic. Any of y'all have experience with that?

Eta:
Guess that's probably a better question for @Mike327 on the ham forum.

The cheapest and easiest way to use Civtak is to use it with Gotenna PRO X.

Teaching the basic tactics to family is pretty easy if you have the gear.  We are working on communication at the moment and trying to teach my NOT tactically minded wife how to think tactically.  She doesn't understand why cell phones won't work if you want to stay hidden (although our primary method for coms now is cell phones in pocket with a headset).  If you don't have NV and IR lasers for everyone, practice with a visible laser.  It at least teaches people to watch where their muzzle is pointed and teaches you "look at me guy" where NOT to stand to allow overwatch a clear shot.

Depending on how your thermal is mounted, you may also need to get over flagging people to use it effectively.

We had one instance where a few of us are moving tactically and providing cover etc and I look to the right and our 88m (truck driver)  was just walking out in the open like he was on an evening stroll.

Eta.  Start your training during the day when everyone can see.

Look for the Hammer plugin for ATAK.  It appears to not work on all mobile devices for some reason, and there isn't a lot of supporting documentation, but it is intended to provide over the air transfer of data points, etc.  Maybe someone on the ham forum can provide better info.

I'm not aware of anything cheap that can do DMR linking with any TAK - the cheap chinese radios simply don't have the control exposed that we know of.
I'm happy to report that at least two primary developers of the M17 project like TAK stuff, but that's a long ways away from helping you right now.
Gotenna or standard APRS are the two systems I've heard of people using nicely in the cheap space.

More expensive radios should absolutely be capable based on their marketing material, but that's not my forte, not until someone hires me to do it or provides the hardware at least.

Tagging the thread because I'm interested in other solutions.

In another thread 'We no longer own the night' there is discussion of evasion of thermal.  
I wanted to bring to this thread the question of thermal drone use from a small team perspective.  This is tech that is available to the lay man now and I imagine with proper comms it would be a devastating force multiplier.
Anyone practice with thermal equipped drones?

I have.  However, the image quality of mine (I use at work) is severally hindered by my screen size and the quality of the thermal imager.  

I have spotted people and hot spots of fire with it before.

Oh, and MODS, this topic should be tacked for readily available input and ideas.