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Posted: 2/6/2019 1:15:53 PM EST
[Last Edit: 2/6/2019 1:17:17 PM EST by Crazy_Diamond]
I got to thinking about this...

In a typical area of the country - Anytown USA - say a mid sized city plus the surrounding MSA for a total population of say 200,000 in a county sized area - what is your guess as to the number of people that have any of the following:

- A level of NV that would allow them to walk around without IR light in the dark / no artificial light
- A gen 3 device
- A thermal device generally capable at 50 yards or greater
- A weapon site in either NV or thermal
Link Posted: 2/6/2019 1:23:19 PM EST
Not counting LEO, MIL, and Feds, my guess would be low like 0.0001 - 0.001%

Originally Posted By Crazy_Diamond:
I got to thinking about this...

In a typical area of the country - Anytown USA - say a mid sized city plus the surrounding MSA for a total population of say 200,000 in a county sized area - what is your guess as to the number of people that have any of the following:

- A level of NV that would allow them to walk around without IR light in the dark / no artificial light
- A gen 3 device
- A thermal device generally capable at 50 yards or greater
- A weapon site in either NV or thermal
View Quote
Link Posted: 2/6/2019 1:31:47 PM EST
Link Posted: 2/6/2019 1:51:16 PM EST
And of that small percentage an even smaller number that will actually buy something haggle hassle free or wasting your time to only buy from someone whoring it out.


Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By TNVC_Sam:
Yep, Id say less than 25 people of that 200k number meet your req's.
View Quote
Link Posted: 2/6/2019 2:01:59 PM EST
[Last Edit: 2/6/2019 2:14:30 PM EST by chosos]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By TNVC_Sam:
Yep, Id say less than 25 people of that 200k number meet your req's.
View Quote
So we are the elite... or the weirdos depending upon which side of the fence you're on.

I can tell you that up north here in Michigan, that % is even less. I would love to start up some type of northern based NV company, but the market just isn't here for it - yet. Sad really, because most of the friends/family I have ever demo'd gear to are stunned with the capabilities. That initial "wow factor" is my favorite part, but most of them can't get beyond it being an expensive toy for anything other than LEO/Mil. :(
Link Posted: 2/6/2019 2:05:09 PM EST
Totally agree and been there done that. Honestly, all it does is fuck over the stocking distributors while at the same time not making any real money unless you're a non-ITAR compliant dirt bag

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By chosos:

So we are the elite... or the weirdos depending upon which side of the fence you're on.

I can tell you that up north here in Michigan, that % is even less. I would love to start up some type of northern based NV company, but the market just isn't here for it - yet. Sad really, because most of the friends/family I have ever demo'd gear to are stunned with the capabilities. That initial "wow factor" is my favorite part, but most of them can't get beyond it being a expensive toy for anything other than LEO/Mil. :(
View Quote
Link Posted: 2/6/2019 2:14:38 PM EST
I can tell you that the % of gear within my family is 100% though. Ever see a 6-8 year old rocking NOD's? It revolutionizes capture the flag and tag.
Link Posted: 2/6/2019 2:21:41 PM EST
I bought my first suppressor around 23 years ago and first real gen2/3 NV around the same time frame maybe a year or two before.. Back then both were crazy rare you didn’t have all the internet sites, forums and dealers you have now.

Gun shows or magazine adds were the only place you could even see such gear in person and NV retailers were like used car dealers prices varied widely even day to day.

Today, thermal is starting to show up and be sold at most all the gun stores here in town now while high end NV seems pretty rare still.

As prices have came down and products are more widely advertised it’s seems more people buy Nv/thermal. That said still only a small fraction of folks buy NV and Thermal in the grand scene of things it’s a specialty type market.
Link Posted: 2/6/2019 2:27:43 PM EST
Personally, I like that we're rare. I've only ran into someone else using NVD's in the woods but it was just SAR dicking around.
Link Posted: 2/6/2019 2:31:05 PM EST
One day those kids will realize how lucky they are. That's awesome

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By chosos:
I can tell you that the % of gear within my family is 100% though. Ever see a 6-8 year old rocking NOD's? It revolutionizes capture the flag and tag.
View Quote
Link Posted: 2/6/2019 2:34:20 PM EST
I'd be lying if scarcity wasn't part of the reason I find it so fascinating.

It's pretty cool showing your friends and family the superpower, and watching them go from a dark field to "daylight".

So many people have the basic AR, glock, etc. I like seeing something different from gun owners.
Link Posted: 2/6/2019 3:21:22 PM EST
in my area of North Georgia I know a lot of shooters but only three of us have night vision worth having. I have a couple loaners and we take people out occasionally. every one loves it until they hear the price. then they go build their 10th AR....
Link Posted: 2/6/2019 3:30:18 PM EST
I know a guy who's like level 99 prepper mentality who'll spend a ton of money on preps but when I talk NVD's he's like, nah. He better hope the EMP followed by paratrooping russian zombies happens during the day. Unreal.

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By chipw:
in my area of North Georgia I know a lot of shooters but only three of us have night vision worth having. I have a couple loaners and we take people out occasionally. every one loves it until they hear the price. then they go build their 10th AR....
View Quote
Link Posted: 2/6/2019 3:37:15 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By will-1:
I know a guy who's like level 99 prepper mentality who'll spend a ton of money on preps but when I talk NVD's he's like, nah. He better hope the EMP followed by paratrooping russian zombies happens during the day. Unreal.

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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By will-1:
I know a guy who's like level 99 prepper mentality who'll spend a ton of money on preps but when I talk NVD's he's like, nah. He better hope the EMP followed by paratrooping russian zombies happens during the day. Unreal.

Originally Posted By chipw:
in my area of North Georgia I know a lot of shooters but only three of us have night vision worth having. I have a couple loaners and we take people out occasionally. every one loves it until they hear the price. then they go build their 10th AR....
People don't know what they don't know. My best guess he doesn't understand the capability.
Link Posted: 2/6/2019 3:41:45 PM EST
It's taken off big time in Arizona during the past 5 years. Pretty cool to watch!

One of my absolute favorite things to do is introduce people to the capabilities of night vision.

My favorite way to do it is jump my truck offroad with zero lights going at least 65MPH and not telling them it's coming. Then I show them the night vision lol
Link Posted: 2/6/2019 4:03:54 PM EST
True. But first step is they have to take the red pill.

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By MILSPEC556:

People don't know what they don't know. My best guess he doesn't understand the capability.
View Quote
Link Posted: 2/6/2019 4:08:17 PM EST
I don't know anybody personally that has night vision and thermal besides me
Link Posted: 2/6/2019 4:09:22 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By AZ2A:
It's taken off big time in Arizona during the past 5 years. Pretty cool to watch!
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I would expect Arizona to have more than the rest of the country because if you want to do anything fun outside without burning up, you pretty much have to go at night
Link Posted: 2/6/2019 4:11:35 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Joe731:

I would expect Arizona to have more than the rest of the country because if you want to do anything fun outside without burning up, you pretty much have to go at night
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Haha spot on. Summertime night hikes are the best
Link Posted: 2/6/2019 4:16:44 PM EST
[Last Edit: 2/6/2019 4:23:55 PM EST by will-1]
Edit: Meant for AZ2A.

So what's the brass tax on using NVD's / thermal at night in AZ? My understanding is:

1. You can night shoot but check your local county/city laws

2. You can't use NVD/thermal for coyotes or any animals regardless if you have a valid AZ hunting license

I go back and forth but do all my .300/5.56 shenanigans in NV where it's a free for all

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By MILSPEC556:

People don't know what they don't know. My best guess he doesn't understand the capability.
View Quote
Link Posted: 2/6/2019 4:23:51 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By will-1:
So what's the brass tax on using NVD's / thermal at night in AZ? My understanding is:

1. You can night shoot but check your local county/city laws

2. You can't use NVD/thermal for coyotes or any animals regardless if you have a valid AZ hunting license

I go back and forth but do all my .300/5.56 shenanigans in NV where it's a free for all
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By will-1:
So what's the brass tax on using NVD's / thermal at night in AZ? My understanding is:

1. You can night shoot but check your local county/city laws

2. You can't use NVD/thermal for coyotes or any animals regardless if you have a valid AZ hunting license

I go back and forth but do all my .300/5.56 shenanigans in NV where it's a free for all
1. Correct. Most places are 100% legal to shoot at night with night vision. We have tons of locations that are great for it. Most of the shooters in the LE community go to these same spots.

2. Unfortunately, you're correct. No NV/ thermal with hunting coyotes.

From the 2019 Hunting Regs:
3.In units listed with this note, coyotes may be
taken at night with the aid of artificial light;
however, the light may not be attached to or
operated from a vehicle. Per R12-4-304, an
individual shall not use or possess any electronic night vision equipment, electronically
enhanced light-gathering devices, thermal
imaging devices or laser sights while taking wildlife: except for devices such as laser
range finders, scopes with self-illuminating
reticles, and fiber optic sights with self-illuminating sights or pins that do not project
a visible light onto an animal.
Link Posted: 2/6/2019 4:28:22 PM EST
Thanks @AZ2A

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By AZ2A:

1. Correct. Most places are 100% legal to shoot at night with night vision. We have tons of locations that are great for it. Most of the shooters in the LE community go to these same spots.

2. Unfortunately, you're correct. No NV/ thermal with hunting coyotes.

From the 2019 Hunting Regs:
View Quote
Link Posted: 2/6/2019 5:35:10 PM EST
[Last Edit: 2/6/2019 5:35:24 PM EST by EZToForget]
I come in contact with hundreds of gun owners, shooters, hunters on a weekly basis through the various places I work. I know of 1 guy that has a pvs 14. He’s not a hunter or shooter, he just bought it because his inner kid came out. Beyond that I know of 1 other guy that owns an xq38. I am good friends with him and he bought it after he saw my xp50. Yet still beyond that I have another buddy I hunt with on the regular, he uses my loaner 14 and he has a digital scope. Since we aren’t counting digital and the 14 is mine, we are talking 3 people in a 50 mile radius that I know of, and that includes me. I’m the only one of those that is helmet mounted and has aiming solutions to use with it... I’m sure there are others around but I’d bet the VERY, VERY low assumption is correct.
Link Posted: 2/6/2019 5:38:33 PM EST
Link Posted: 2/6/2019 5:42:07 PM EST
That's pretty f'n awesome. Especially the $25 rental part. What does that get them? Bump with mount & 14?

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By TNVC_Sam:
I run a monthly 2 gun match I call "Friday Night Fight Club"

I usually have about 15-20 participants show up, half of these guys have their own NODs, Lasers, helmets, and NV compatible optics.

The other half....well they rent all my spare gear for $25 a set and after the first night start saving for it.

In my area there are a lot of folks who have it and use it for shooting, hunting, other forms of night time antics.

Folks in North FL can see in the dark
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Link Posted: 2/6/2019 6:10:45 PM EST
Link Posted: 2/6/2019 6:19:45 PM EST
[Last Edit: 2/6/2019 6:20:06 PM EST by EZToForget]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By TNVC_Sam:

TW exfil bump, Wilcox G24, MAWL DA, Sentinel or Mod 3 dual tubes
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Hahaha.... your “spare” gear, lol. I suddenly feel poor with my dtnvgs, 2 pvs 14s, mawl c1, dbal d2, and xp50.... I guess working for TNVC has its advantages.
Link Posted: 2/6/2019 6:41:55 PM EST
Link Posted: 2/6/2019 6:45:19 PM EST
That’s an awesome deal using Sents / binos for $25
Link Posted: 2/6/2019 6:49:19 PM EST
Link Posted: 2/6/2019 7:09:30 PM EST
Beer pong wearing goggles

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By TNVC_Sam:

Then we go to the brewery down the road for a few beers afterwards and conduct an in depth debrief/NV gossip
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Link Posted: 2/6/2019 7:38:45 PM EST
I live near the largest city in NE Nebraska, about 24,000 people. I've been to the gun stores and gun shows around here. I always bring up NVG and hunting, etc. No one has any and think they are cool to use, but will never buy one. I know for a fact I am better outfitted than the county police department as we talked guns and gear. The county police have an old handheld thermal unit that comes in handy while searching for people and a lonely pvs14. No cans or lasers on their stuff.

In Lincoln (284,000 people), I know of like 6 people with NV or thermal, but they never go shooting because there aren't any places to shoot legally at night.
Link Posted: 2/6/2019 7:55:31 PM EST
[Last Edit: 2/6/2019 7:56:30 PM EST by pcsutton]
I gotta figger there's a higher per capita ownership of NVDs and thermals here in Texas due to hog hunting.

That said, I know damned few people who own multiple items. They might have either/or but not 'get both'.

I'm the only guy I know that has PVS-14, Thermal, and IR lasers for both long guns and pistols...all suppressed.

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Link Posted: 2/6/2019 8:15:08 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By TNVC_Sam:

This is not TNVC's gear, this is all Greenline Tactical or my personal gear.
This isn't really affiliated with TNVC other than if they have questions on where to get gear or what to get I can help advise.
View Quote
I was just assuming you get a higher percentage of good deals than the rest of us due to exposure, or maybe a good discount. But I am probably wrong. Probably more to do with it being your day job. I have no excuse for buying so much of it. I like to kill coyotes and I have an irrational fear of the boogeyman, lol.
Link Posted: 2/6/2019 8:18:08 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By chosos:
I can tell you that the % of gear within my family is 100% though. Ever see a 6-8 year old rocking NOD's? It revolutionizes capture the flag and tag.
View Quote
My son is only 2 at the moment. I don’t want to say I can’t wait for him to get a little older. But when he does.... Nerf gun fights under nods is going to be epic
Link Posted: 2/6/2019 9:15:25 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By TNVC_Sam:
I run a monthly 2 gun match I call "Friday Night Fight Club"

.....

Folks in North FL can see in the dark
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I’m based in Tampa but spend quite a bit of time in North Florida along with a few well-equipped buddies running around the family’s 1,000+ acre compound being a menace to coyotes. Fun times for sure!
Link Posted: 2/7/2019 2:19:20 AM EST
[Last Edit: 2/7/2019 2:23:57 AM EST by mousehunter]
I live in a town of less than 1k. We are fairly atipical. I bet about 10% of the ranches over 100 acres near town have NV by now. That said, thermal might be more popular than gen 3.

While we have 5 FFL's, only recently did we get a gun store, and it is tiny. Town 20 miles over has a population of about 10k and has a great gun store, class III, and stocks thermal and night vision (including Trijicon IRHunters).
Link Posted: 2/7/2019 7:02:22 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By TNVC_Sam:

This is not TNVC's gear, this is all Greenline Tactical or my personal gear.
This isn't really affiliated with TNVC other than if they have questions on where to get gear or what to get I can help advise.
View Quote
U have extra mawl's for 8 ppl? Jeez, i need better friends.
Link Posted: 2/7/2019 8:02:19 AM EST
I only know two guys local to my with NV. Both are on arfcom. I always take my NV out to group shoots to let other guys who haven’t had chance to try it. Most of them are amazed how much better it is compared to the photos and videos.
Link Posted: 2/7/2019 11:46:28 AM EST
[Last Edit: 2/7/2019 11:47:03 AM EST by mousehunter]
I don't know of many personally, but it is easy for me to take the ones I know and project to the population. On my corner, one neighbor has sons who are big hunters. They hunt hogs with NV, but I think only one in their group uses Gen 3, rest are digital. Good friends of both my sons night hunt a little. They use borrowed thermal (from a brother in law. They also have a industry group come down several times a year that helps exterminate hogs in their several thousand acres of corn. I don't know the name of the company. But let's call their hunts product testing. Once they find the hogs, they set up kill zones, drives, cross fire zones, etc as if it was a military ambush-they are very effective. Stepsons ex-girlfriends dad also had NV, but again provably digital.

Nobody wants to admit to spending the coin, but many admit to using it.
Link Posted: 2/7/2019 12:05:47 PM EST
Link Posted: 2/7/2019 12:09:23 PM EST
[Last Edit: 2/7/2019 12:09:51 PM EST by AZ2A]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Lowdown3:
Probably a lot more than we realize...

Lots of people that have come down to buy in person for cash looked and acted differently than what most of us would expect the average NV owner/user to be like.

Like NFA items, a lot of people have bought NV primarily because they think at some point in the future it will be "banned" for civilian ownership. I'm serious, a lot of people ask about this.

Then there is the small percentage that want to "find Bigfoot" (a no shit real conversation I have heard MORE than a few times)...

The most interesting to me one was the comment that "I want to watch the war going on in space right now" . That was a serious statement from someone. I think they might have posted that on one of our old youtube videos as well.

So like anything else there is that fringe set of users out there as well.

So yeah, probably a lot more out there than we realize.
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I doubt it will ever happen but you never know unfortunately

Military-Grade Night Vision Gear Is Widely Available To Civilians — And That’s A Problem
Link Posted: 2/7/2019 12:28:18 PM EST
[Last Edit: 2/7/2019 12:29:53 PM EST by TNVC]
Link Posted: 2/7/2019 12:40:52 PM EST
Originally Posted By Crazy_Diamond:
I got to thinking about this...

In a typical area of the country - Anytown USA - say a mid sized city plus the surrounding MSA for a total population of say 200,000 in a county sized area - what is your guess as to the number of people that have any of the following:

- A level of NV that would allow them to walk around without IR light in the dark / no artificial light Check
- A gen 3 device Check
- A weapon site in either NV or thermal Check
- A thermal device generally capable at 50 yards or greater Dangit, I was so close.
View Quote
Link Posted: 2/7/2019 12:44:19 PM EST
Link Posted: 2/7/2019 12:44:29 PM EST
So true. I got in a conversation with a big foot hunter a while back. At first I thought he was just fucking with me because it was funny shit. Then it got really awkward.

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Lowdown3:

Then there is the small percentage that want to "find Bigfoot" (a no shit real conversation I have heard MORE than a few times)...
View Quote
Link Posted: 2/7/2019 12:45:06 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By TNVC:

That story has been talked a lot in the past.
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Yes, I remember your post in November about it
Link Posted: 2/7/2019 12:54:49 PM EST
Link Posted: 2/7/2019 1:06:50 PM EST
Link Posted: 2/7/2019 1:13:26 PM EST
[Last Edit: 2/7/2019 1:26:46 PM EST by AZ2A]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By TNVC:

Still a great reminder NV is always on their radar. Several years before this where the Govy set up dummy NV operation to show congress how easy it was to illegally export NV. The unfortunate thing about the operation was they purchased the NV legally from a very reputable company and person (no not us) and named them in the report to Congress and made it sound like he did something wrong, which he never did.
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Oh wow, that's very unfortunate...

And it seems like any type of freedom or liberty is on their radar these days
Link Posted: 2/7/2019 1:20:00 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Lowdown3:
Probably a lot more than we realize...

Lots of people that have come down to buy in person for cash looked and acted differently than what most of us would expect the average NV owner/user to be like.

Like NFA items, a lot of people have bought NV primarily because they think at some point in the future it will be "banned" for civilian ownership. I'm serious, a lot of people ask about this.

Then there is the small percentage that want to "find Bigfoot" (a no shit real conversation I have heard MORE than a few times)...

The most interesting to me one was the comment that "I want to watch the war going on in space right now" . That was a serious statement from someone. I think they might have posted that on one of our old youtube videos as well.

So like anything else there is that fringe set of users out there as well.

So yeah, probably a lot more out there than we realize.
View Quote
Me and my wife listen to bigfoot/dogman encounters at night in bed. (Don't ask ) I would say they're the second biggest NV/thermal customer group behind us/LE/mil. I've even seen a YouTube video of "alien researchers" using PVS-14s
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