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Posted: 2/2/2018 8:06:19 PM EDT
Hey all,
I have s Dillon 650 for reloading and a Dillon Super Swager, But even with the super swager, swaging thousands of 5.56 LC brass is a time consuming task... I recently saw a video of the Hornady LNL AP press with the Hornady Swaging kit.. This methoid looks miles faster/easier than using the Dillon Super Swager.. I was offered a Hornady Pro-Jector press only from a friend for $100, the swaging kit is $89.99, So for $189.99, I'd have a dedicated Swager where I can processs LC brass quickly.. My question is, Can anyone verify that the swaging kit will fit on the Pro-Jector press? I wrote to Hornady and the said all their shell plates are backward compatible.. However when I googled it, I found alot of threads that said most LNL stuff isn't backward compatible.. So I'm hoping someone can confirm for me if it will work or not? Also, is $100 a good price for a Pro Jector press? Keep in mind, I am only looking to make it into a dedicated swaging machine.. Please save me the "Just buy a Dillon 1050" or the likes Comments. -Masta eta, I don't want to see any off topic posts either, this is a Hornady thread. dryflash3 |
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Why not buy the Swage-It kit for your 650?
The Pro-Jector is different enough from the AP I seriously doubt the kit will work. |
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Quoted:
Why not buy the Swage-It kit for your 650? The Pro-Jector is different enough from the AP I seriously doubt the kit will work. View Quote I just thought the LNL swage kit sounded like it could make an awesome dedicated swaging machine. Thanks, -Masta |
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The problem with swaging using a tooling that has a suport bar on the inside of the case to back it up, is that if you change brass and the web thickness changes between the two different types of brass, you need to re-adjust the tool to allow the device to swage correctly.
So granted that I'm not a fan of the swage kits on the 650 since it voids the warranty, and does not taper the primer pocket entry as wide as I would like for very clean primer feeds at priming, it does a good job of swaging out the inside of the primer pocket without have to re-adjust the tooling for different webbing thickness instead. As for picking up a Hornady to swage primer pocket only, would be just as fast to use a Dillon super swager, plus smaller foot print/less hassles as well. Hence that fact that if you do have problems, Dillon will send you replacement parts for free, while on a out of production Hornady press, no parts are available for it to start with instead. As for a projector for $100, very good price, so long as you can make replacement parts, since again, Hornady no longer has replacement parts for the machine. To be blunt, if you have a problem with the press and need parts to repair it, the best Hornady can do is offer a $200 trade in (have to send all the parts in, including the power dispenser system as well) towards the current production AP machine instead. So it really a double edge sword, since if you are going through Horhady directly, you going to pay about $100 more than a discount shop for the same machine. So you buying the machine for the intent of trading it in on a Current AP, makes the initial $100 cost to buy the machine a mute point. |
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Thank You for your input/info..
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The problem with swaging using a tooling that has a suport bar on the inside of the case to back it up, is that if you change brass and the web thickness changes between the two different types of brass, you need to re-adjust the tool to allow the device to swage correctly. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
The problem with swaging using a tooling that has a suport bar on the inside of the case to back it up, is that if you change brass and the web thickness changes between the two different types of brass, you need to re-adjust the tool to allow the device to swage correctly. Quoted:
So granted that I'm not a fan of the swage kits on the 650 since it voids the warranty, and does not taper the primer pocket entry as wide as I would like for very clean primer feeds at priming, it does a good job of swaging out the inside of the primer pocket without have to re-adjust the tooling for different webbing thickness instead. Quoted:
As for picking up a Hornady to swage primer pocket only, would be just as fast to use a Dillon super swager, plus smaller foot print/less hassles as well. Hence that fact that if you do have problems, Dillon will send you replacement parts for free, while on a out of production Hornady press, no parts are available for it to start with instead. Do you know for a fact that they don’t have/make partsfor the Pro-Jector press? What parts would even break on a dedicate swager? I can’t think of any? I may just wait and look for a used LNL AP. I see them pop up from time to time.. I may just try the Swage It... I’d rather have a dedicate solution for swaging, But the Swage It mat be the best comprimise.. -Masta |
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Do you have one? Would you recommend it? I just thought the LNL swage kit sounded like it could make an awesome dedicated swaging machine. Thanks, -Masta View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Why not buy the Swage-It kit for your 650? The Pro-Jector is different enough from the AP I seriously doubt the kit will work. I just thought the LNL swage kit sounded like it could make an awesome dedicated swaging machine. Thanks, -Masta I bought the Dillon used. It is almost like new. I cleaned lubed and set it up from scratch. Tonight I just loaded my first rounds on it. So far it is a keeper. I ordered the Swage-It setup and it came in today's mail. Once I am done loading all my prepped brass I will setup another tool head for sizing, and trimming. I will be using the Swage-It then. This could be as soon as tomorrow. if not it will be next weekend. I can give you an honest report after I use it. |
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Quoted: I have had a Hornady AP press for 6 years. I like it but don't love it. I have gotten it to run really well but the priming system is not great. Wolf primers I had no issues but CCI 41s I had a problem with 1 in 10. This led me to buy a Dillon 650. I bought the Dillon used. It is almost like new. I cleaned lubed and set it up from scratch. Tonight I just loaded my first rounds on it. So far it is a keeper. I ordered the Swage-It setup and it came in today's mail. Once I am done loading all my prepped brass I will setup another tool head for sizing, and trimming. I will be using the Swage-It then. This could be as soon as tomorrow. if not it will be next weekend. I can give you an honest report after I use it. View Quote On another note, are you going to be selling your LNL AP? The priming system makes no difference for my use of the press.. Thanks, -Masta |
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Since it will be a dedicated swaging press you don't need to care about the lock n load part, or the old priming setup, or if it can handle a case feeder.. none of it. All it has to do is go up and down and index
properly. As far the newer LnL AP's priming system, it works great if you can actually find the time to do a little polishing and reaming/beveling. But it's alot easier to complain on a message board than actually smooth a corner radius out. Fill the priming system full of powder and run cheap primers and it will have problems without some modification. |
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Just a FYI, but when Dillion voids the warranty on a machine, its the entire machine and it's parts that the warranty is voided on.
The swage type kits do leave tell tail marks on the 650 presses, so don't think that your going to sneak such use in under the radar with Dillon instead. Hell, use the wrong brass, and Dillon may not warranty replacement parts from them breaking such parts. Dillon Precision does not warranty Rifle decapping pins or the carbide expander balls from breakage due to use of non-reloadable cases. We will warranty damage to the upper decap bolt, but reserve the right to limit this on a case-by-case basis. Any other damage that might occur due to the use of non-reloadable cases will be covered within the limits, if any, of the overall warranty on the model of machine. Case inspection is an often overlooked part of reloading. As consumers we often expect that all cartridge cases are of equal quality. Sadly, this is not true. Between berdan-primed cases, off-center flash holes, and very tight flash holes, fired cases need to undergo some culling nowadays. Sorting by headstamp is probably the fastest, and then the suspect brass can be subjected to greater scrutiny to determine its suitability for reloading. View Quote |
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Quoted:
Just a FYI, but when Dillion voids the warranty on a machine, its the entire machine and it's parts that the warranty is voided on. The swage type kits do leave tell tail marks on the 650 presses, so don't think that your going to sneak such use in under the radar with Dillon instead. View Quote |
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Quoted: I'd apperciate that and look forward to seeing your review! On another note, are you going to be selling your LNL AP? The priming system makes no difference for my use of the press.. Thanks, -Masta View Quote |
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Quoted:
Since it will be a dedicated swaging press you don't need to care about the lock n load part, or the old priming setup, or if it can handle a case feeder.. none of it. All it has to do is go up and down and index properly. As far the newer LnL AP's priming system, it works great if you can actually find the time to do a little polishing and reaming/beveling. But it's alot easier to complain on a message board than actually smooth a corner radius out. Fill the priming system full of powder and run cheap primers and it will have problems without some modification. View Quote I want to like the Hornady because it is way cheaper especially for caliber converting. My issue with priming is the case does not always line up perfect with the punch. I am not talking about rotating to the correct spot but rather the shell does not go fully into the plate. This happens about 50% of the time. Sometime the primer seats hard, others the primer gets damaged and stuck. This issue did not happen once on the Dillon. If you use brand new brass this may solve the issue because the rim is perfect. Used brass is not always perfect. I have had brass not go in the Hornady shell plate that visually looks good. They go right in the Dillon shell plate. I have thought about milling a few thousandths off the Hornady plate. The Dillon isn’t perfect either but solves my issues so I am converting. Just will suck up the extra costs for calibers. I will be listing the press eventually. Now that I see how well the Dillon does I am going to try a mod on the Hornady. |
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Just a FYI, but when Dillion voids the warranty on a machine, its the entire machine and it's parts that the warranty is voided on. The swage type kits do leave tell tail marks on the 650 presses, so don't think that your going to sneak such use in under the radar with Dillon instead. |
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Quoted: Since I work there, I can tell you that he is exactly correct on all counts. And a new 650 frame is way more than $75. If you like paying for each and every part, by all means, go with the Swage-It. View Quote I am not worried about the Swage-it, it will not be an issue. Nobody makes a perfect press. They all have issues. |
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Quoted: Since I work there, I can tell you that he is exactly correct on all counts. And a new 650 frame is way more than $75. If you like paying for each and every part, by all means, go with the Swage-It. View Quote The alert notes that a consumer has the right to patronize independent retail stores and repair shops for parts and service without fear of voiding the warranty. The manufacturer has the right to deny a warranty repair but they must demonstrate that the aftermarket part caused the problem. The warranty remains in effect for all other covered parts. I’ll just leave this right here.. |
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Quoted: In a Consumer Alert issued by the Federal Trade Commission (FTC), the agency confirmed that “The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act makes it illegal for companies to void your warranty or deny coverage under the warranty simply because you used an aftermarket part.” As defined by the FTC, an “aftermarket' part is a part made by a company other than the manufacturer or the original equipment manufacturer.” The alert notes that a consumer has the right to patronize independent retail stores and repair shops for parts and service without fear of voiding the warranty. The manufacturer has the right to deny a warranty repair but they must demonstrate that the aftermarket part caused the problem. The warranty remains in effect for all other covered parts. I’ll just leave this right here.. View Quote I don't think that Magnuson-Moss defines aftermarket part, but the logical interpretation would be a drop-in replacement, rather than something that augments the function. |
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Quoted: That's like arguing that Ford should cover all repairs to a Fiesta after a shadetree smith adds a turbocharger to it and fucks the engine. I don't think that Magnuson-Moss defines aftermarket part, but the logical interpretation would be a drop-in replacement, rather than something that augments the function. View Quote It also DOES cover aftermarket parts and they can void the warrenty if damage is caused by an aftermarket part, but ONLY on the affected parts. IE: Dillon could void the warrenty on the Frame, Shellplate, Shell plate bolt and that’s all. They CANNOT void the warrenty on any other part(s), Unless they can prove that the aftermarket part caused the damage to the other part(s). I’m also pretty sure that Dillon like most other companies has a policy which states it’s employees are NOT alloud to speak on their behalf in public forum with out going threw their legal dept. But reguardless, No one asked.. -Masta |
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Can we please get back to the original topic and leave warranty issues elsewhere.
Thanks. |
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Quoted:
Hey all, I have s Dillon 650 for reloading and a Dillon Super Swager, But even with the super swager, swaging thousands of 5.56 LC brass is a time consuming task... I recently saw a video of the Hornady LNL AP press with the Hornady Swaging kit.. This methoid looks miles faster/easier than using the Dillon Super Swager.. I was offered a Hornady Pro-Jector press only from a friend for $100, the swaging kit is $89.99, So for $189.99, I'd have a dedicated Swager where I can processs LC brass quickly.. My question is, Can anyone verify that the swaging kit will fit on the Pro-Jector press? I wrote to Hornady and the said all their shell plates are backward compatible.. However when I googled it, I found alot of threads that said most LNL stuff isn't backward compatible.. So I'm hoping someone can confirm for me if it will work or not? Also, is $100 a good price for a Pro Jector press? Keep in mind, I am only looking to make it into a dedicated swaging machine.. Please save me the "Just buy a Dillon 1050" or the likes Comments. -Masta eta, I don't want to see any off topic posts either, this is a Hornady thread. dryflash3 View Quote |
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Quoted:
Quoted: I read this yesterday so today I pulled my old press out and mounted it to my maintenance stand and tried it out. You are good to go. I am going to try the Swage-It on the 650XL. Let's report our results. |
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Quoted: Did you get yours yet? Anything to report? -Masta View Quote So some times you can get away with the narrow beveling of the entry of the primer pocket for the primer to find the primer channel, while with some other case and some types of primers, the primer does not want to find the primer pocket at entry well instead. In the later, you need to go back with a cutter type swage remove tool, to increase the primer pocket entrance chamfering so your not having problems with the 650 allowing the primer to find and entry the primer pocket cleanly/flawlessly instead. Hence you don't force the primer into a primer pocket on a 650 machine, since that is the quickest way to set a primer off, have it chain fire the rest of the primers and up the tube; ending up with the entire primer assembly KB and needing to be replaced. |
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Quoted: The short version, will iron out the primer pocket ID crimp well, but does not produce a lot of taper entrance to the entry of the primer pocket isntead. So some times you can get away with the narrow beveling of the entry of the primer pocket for the primer to find the primer channel, while with some other case and some types of primers, the primer does not want to find the primer pocket at entry well instead. In the later, you need to go back with a cutter type swage remove tool, to increase the primer pocket entrance chamfering so your not having problems with the 650 allowing the primer to find and entry the primer pocket cleanly/flawlessly instead. Hence you don't force the primer into a primer pocket on a 650 machine, since that is the quickest way to set a primer off, have it chain fire the rest of the primers and up the tube; ending up with the entire primer assembly KB and needing to be replaced. View Quote Does anyone that has the LNL AP Swaging kit know if it has the same problem? I know it is adjustable, so maybe this isn't a problem on the LNL AP Kit? DRAINSMITH? -Masta |
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so I installed the Swage-It kit this afternoon. I processed about 2-300 cases tonight. They are now in the tumbler.
I did try to prime them and the primers went in but I only did a few just to try. Tomorrow I will try to prime them. |
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Quoted:
Does anyone that has the LNL AP Swaging kit know if it has the same problem? I know it is adjustable, so maybe this isn't a problem on the LNL AP Kit? DRAINSMITH? -Masta View Quote Hence this is the glitch with the 650 swage it, and the only thing backing up the case, is just the rim of the case in the shell plate isntead. So too much swage pressure to get the final extra touch of pocket entry bevel, either bends the hell out of the shell plate or tries to rip the rim off the case after you have already bent the shell plate instead. Hence the swage-it does not have a top of web suport to the case, and why you can not created that kind of force safely with the tool and not start taking parts of the 650 out instead. |
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Sorry folk but my butt has been on the stool or laying on the couch trying to die. But I couldn't have said it better than Dano523.
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Well, I decided to try the Swage IT first...
I recieved it today... Installed it and ran a few cases threw it... I can’t tell any difference (by looking at it) from Swaged and unswaged (crimped)... To be fair, I can’t hardly tell with my Dillon Super swage either.. But my Dillon super swage takes alot more strength to cycle it... Which I’m sure it almost entirely due to the difference in mechanical leverage.. I plan to run 100 cases threw over the wekend and prime them to see how they feel... I know if you try to prime a crimped priner pocket the primer will either have a distinct catch upon entry and/or crush.. So it should be easy enough to tell if it’s swaged enough... I was hoping to see a distinct sign that you could easily see to make future sorting/processing easier, but it looks like i’ll just be running them threw the swage IT, every time I process them.. No big deal I suppose as I have to run them threw to deprime anyway for wet tumbling, so I just Deprime, then swage.. Then wet tumble, then lube, resize and trim.. Then dry tumble in untreated corn cob to remove burs from trimming and to remove case lube.. Then I load. *sigh* I hate the .223/5.56 process, it’s almost not even worth doing when you can buy new XM193 for $0.24/round.. But, I digress... -Masta |
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