Have a bag of .45-70 brass of this stuff, but no Hornady die.

Seeing where this brass is something like .030” shorter than regular brass, is it safe to load standard?
Any danger, or will it just give shitty accuracy?  Obviously I wouldn’t be able to crimp it with my current dies.

I bought a Hornady set for .30-30 specifically for this.  Guess I’ll have to pick up another set for .45-70...

They couldn’t come up with a bullet design for lever action that doesn’t require cutting the brass down below SAAMI spec?


I hate these as much as I hate these 9mm cases with a shelf in them that I’m finding.

Redding makes a separate crimp die to use with the brass that was meant / loaded with FTX bullets.
I would think you should have no real problem loading that brass with other bullets.  Do your due diligence work up a load in that brass and keep it separate from regular length brass.

Someone gave me a box of Hornady .30/30 brass.  I asked why two cases were missing.  he said they split on the first firing...

Go with a Lee FCD to crimp brass trimmed shorter for the FTX.

I see this all the time and wonder why people don't look at things more closely.

There is absolutely no difference in the 30-30 Win case length. It is one of the few maybe even the only one that is not different.

If you look in the Hornady manual at data for the 160gr FTX in 30-30 Win you will see that the trim length is standard length.

I don't know if the Hornady factory brass is as well but I'm pretty sure it is.

I load my 160gr FTX in 30-30 Win using standard dies, standard trim length and crimp with a standard Lee 30-30 FCD. I load them to the center of the canalure and my OAL is exactly what is stated by the data.

Motor

No argument about the .30-30.  I don’t know the trim length off the top of my head, but I’ll take your word for it.  Numerous reviews online say the Lee seater die doesn’t work for FTX, so I bought a Hornady set without trying the Lee.

All of my .45-70 Hornady brass is noticeably shorter than standard .45-70.

2.095-2.105 for standard .45-70 brass, while Hornady brass calls for 2.040

I pitch all Hornady brass on site.

Just this week I tossed .45 Colt and 45-70.

Both are short. Drives me nuts

I haven't loaded any in more than a year but I'm pretty sure I'm using Lee dies for the 30-30.

I don't recall having any seating issues.

The 30-30, especially tubular magazine 30-30 has the most to gain from the entire concept.

I was able to work up to the published maximum level (Hornady 8th edition). I'm getting 2375fps from a 20" barrel.

There is no other tubular magazine safe bullet that can even compare to a 160 FTX going 2375fps.

It has proven to be very effective on deer and I also have a Blackbear kill them.

I personally believe the 30-30 FTX is the only FTX actually worth messing with. I haven't seen any other that offers as much a performance gain.

Some in fact (going by ballistic data only) offer no advantage at all.

If you are using anything other than a tubular magazine you can use the Leverevolution powder with any bullet weight and style that there is data for.

I believe the original (the 30-30 FTX) was and is the best of them all.

Motor

hornady usually makes good stuff

but I toss there 45LC brass . . . .it's too short

A real issue could be if you are using a bullet with a cannelure and you seat your bullet to that to crimp.  The Hornady brass will result in a shorter OAL and increase pressure.

That's what I did.

Awesome lever gun round. people are taking whitetails at 250yds easy, some 300.

Actually I was thinking the opposite on loading regular.45-70 bullets into this shorter brass.  I was thinking to leave the seating die set to the same as I would for normal brass, meaning less bullet inside the brass for these.  Obviously the would mean a cannelure would be sitting .045 above the top of the brass.  
Results would be what, less pressure buildup when firing and in turn shitty accuracy, less FPS?

I should just buy a Hornady seating die and some Hornady bullets lol

I'm guessing that the Hornady seating die is somehow adjustable so it can crimp different lengths of casings?

If not I don't see how it would solve your problem. Unless they make a specific Leverevolution set of dies.

Motor

If you load them both to the same OAL you should have the same amount of case space in both cases, it's just the LVR case will have the bullet sticking out a bit more, with regular case it will show the case mouth goes over the straight ogave part of the bullet and looks stupid because will be a space over bullet when loaded. In 30-30 anyway.

Should not matter as far as powder space, or am I full of it? Any way I am just going to put my LVR brass into a different pile anyway there won't be much either, like Dano.

If I load the Hornady pointed LVR bullet I will just use the lee Quick trim and trim them to the length as the LVR cases if using FTX bullets, & maybe the 140gr is different too?

I haven't really dug into it yet if they truly need to be shorter on not with LVR bullets, I think they might be in order to get the pointy bullets to feed right, other wise the

point of the bullet will rub on the back of the receiver when cycling. Pretty sure in 45 cal a LVR bullet in a regular case will also go down below the case edge, because of bullet design. So either use the shorter LVR case or make your own if using LVR bullets. Regular bullets will work in either one.

I have both LVR powder and CFE223 powder, one thing I learned is you can compress LVR powder, it's softer. CFE 223 not so much. With 45-70 it's something to think about.

I am getting Great results with CFE  223, right up there with LVR. Still working on all this with my 30-30's, but LVR seems better suited to the heavier 160 LVR Red tip bullet.

The accuracy with CFE 223 has me amazed so far, and the speeds also. Just playing around with LVR powder so far and it's a doozy also, Turning the 30-30 into a 300yd rifle.

With the 140gr FTX I bet I could do close to 2450 fps with one powder or the other, just don't have it down on paper yet. Your 45-70 will be the same way, lots to learn.

Again , why not just use the LFCD? Crimp over the FTX cannular[sp].

Edit- This bugged me so I went and checked my fired 30-30- LVR cases against my fired regular fired 30-30 cases, the LVR cases are no more than a paper's width difference shorter in length, that's it. To me that's not a difference that matters much. Maybe 45-70 is different, if not it's nothing to worry about, I could trim all my cases to The LVR length.

Or shoot the LVR cases 2 times and they would be the same length LOL. Best way would be all the same if I would run the 30-30 Quick trim to min length for regular cases, bingo.

What's the difference in length between your fired 45-70's.

If you have a Hornady manual it specifies when case length needs to be trimmed differently when using FTX bullets. There is no difference in trim length for the 30-30 160gr FTX.

If you try to use standard trim length casings with the FTX where it specifies a special trim length you can not seat the bullet mid crimp groove and crimp it because the OAL of the loaded cartridge will then be too long to function.

You also can't use a Lee FCD on FTX casings (trimmed shorter) because the location of the crimp is indexed off of the case head and can not be adjusted other than how much crimp you desire.

This is the collet type FCD I'm referring to which is available for the straight wall 45-70 but the standard solid FCD would have very similar limitations.

Motor

The .30-30 FTX that keeps being brought up isn’t an issue, as shown above, because the brass length is at most .010 difference.

The .45-70 is .045 to .050 different.  The Lee seater die, as far as I’m aware, can’t handle pointy bullets, which is why you need a Hornady seater.  I’ve been told the Hornady die comes with inserts for both standard bullets and FTX.

It's Reason to stay with the 160gr ftx bullet then. To long to function varies with guns, I can load them pretty long in my 336 before the point hits the back of the receiver,

Coming up from the tube on the carrier is where they will snatch. My Winchester won't take them. Also pretty sure I can crimp the shorter case, don't make me go try it.

Ya now .50 is a good amount.

What "shorter case" are you referring to? There is no shorter case for 30-30. The factory Hornady FTX casings are within the SAMMI spec for standard length casings.

Motor

You know if we are only talking approximately .050" difference there may be a decent chance that a regular seat/crimp die could have enough adjustment to crimp before the shell holder hits the bottom of the die.

However the collet type FCD would still not work with the shorter casings because its crimp location is not adjustable.

I see what you mean about the seating plug design of the Lee not being friendly to pointed bullets. Maybe if you already had the Lee dies you could get one that would work from them.

Motor

I have the Lee three die set in 30-30 and have had no issues seating or crimping with 160gr FTX bullets.

To be more specific, I have had no deformed tips and I can get the 160gr FTX mid-cannelure on brass trimmed to 2.030", though the seating stem is nearly bottomed out to do this. I choose to crimp in a separate step, so the seating die is backed a few turns out from where its crimp function contacts cases trimmed to 2.030". If I chose to seat and crimp in the same step I presume the seating stem would not be as close to bottomed out in the seating die.

I use the FCD to put a nice crimp into said cannelure with no issues.

Motor-Hornady says in their manual #4 to trim the case to 2.019 if using the ftx bullet. . 010 less than min sammi. Fluke? Maybe, in later manuals they call for min TTL spec.
Of 2.029, but sometimes you might have to go to 2.019.

People don't worry about it much as min case length will work at 2.029. Hornady loads em to min standards, ie- shorter than most other manufactures. Like I said before trim em all to the same length, ie- 2.029 as Hornady makes them. Lots of other factory make their cases 2.034-2.040. + or-.

So Hornady is within spec but on the short end. ---And Why in manual #4 they call for 2.019, and in other manuals they want them trimmed to min spec of 2.029  IDK ???

Hornady's website says trim to 2.029 min sammi spec. Good enough. I have heard it said in some manuals they say you might have to trim another .010, hence 2.019. Like I said in my post above, short. To make bullet and case mouth look better ?, ie so it don't look like the case is trying to swallow the bullet. LOL keep in mind they also make 140's.

It's to do with the case mouth end going over the ogave part of the bullet when FTX bullet is seated to 2.535 oal which is what Hornady wants so as to function in ALL guns.
Most of the Marlins 336's will take longer OAL easy, like I load them. And Like I said before my Winchester wont take them any longer!

I don't worry about OAL in my 336 , or the case length, I seat pointed bullets to 2.590 and they shoot and function great, and yes my LEE seat die has a seat plug for pointed bullets. I use other's besides the FTX. The hot cores are pretty much dull pointed but safe in tube rifles.

Also my LFC die crimps wherever I want it to for my 336, don't have to be on the cannelure and they function fine @2.590. But again in my Winchester OAL can be no longer than what Hornady wants. ---------------------Also I resize my cases to headspace on the shoulder of the chamber and of the case instead of the rim.

I size them about .003-004 short of no headspace, the difference in shooting groups is night and day compared to headspace off the rim. The loads don't rattle around in

the chamber LOL. I also ah never mind LOL. Your right Motor, I was talking about shorter cases, they are but within sammi spec. My point trim them all the same length. Peace.

Absolutely because the 30-30 does not require special short length trimming.

As the OP stated several posts ago the 30-30 should not have been included in this thread. His main focus was on the 45-70 which does require special trim length.

Motor