Hoping some FFL's here can give me some help/advice.

Summary of situation.
Listed a rifle on EE for sale and said would ship to FFL as long as they accept from individual. Buyer comes along and says his FFL does this-they just need copy of my DL with firearm and asks for my paypal info. I understand this and say no problem, just have them email me a copy of their license. I also tell him to hold off on paying me until I receive this info. Once I receive it and verify on the ATF website that they are in fact a legitimate FFL with a current license he can pay me. Before I get this info, the buyer pays me and then comes back and says his FFL wont send their license out to individuals. I tell him I cannot ship a firearm to them without this and verifying them as it is illegal. He says he didnt know this and that he has had others do it without questioning this. I tell him well it is the law, and I cannot do this without the FFL's license. I ask why they wont send it to me and he just says they wont. I tell him to either get them to do this or find another FFL. He says he will talk to them.

He comes back the next day and says he spoke with this FFL and they agreed to send me license. I say ok I will let you know when I get it. A day goes by and nothing.  The next day I contact buyer and tell him I haven't gotten anything. He says he will contact them again and also states  that last time it took a couple of days. Now in the back of my mind I am thinking "I thought you said they dont do this?" Anyways, I respond to him with okay. Another day goes by and still nothing. Buyer sends me an email asking if I got it. I tell him no. I tell him that this FFL is wasting both our time and he should find another FFL as this one is a joke. He apologizes again for how long this is taking and says he will find another one tomorrow.

Now today about an hour ago buyer sends me another email and says he spoke with this same FFL ( I mean come on-really?). They will now send me their FFL license, but first I need to send them a copy of my DL, name of rifle, serial# of rifle, and buyers info. Then after they receive all of this they will send me their license.
I haven't responded to this buyer yet. I am not sure what to do at this point. Should I just be sending this out? Part of me is thinking of just refunding this guy his money, telling him sorry I don't feel comfortable doing this, and re-listing it. Am I in the wrong here? I also don't know if I should take this to an EE mod as well to protect myself in event buyer takes this to them saying I am welching. If anyone has any advice I would really appreciate it. It has been almost a week now since this whole thing started.
Thanks,
Mav

Yeah it is. Do you have any advice for me? Should I email this guys FFL all this info first? I have never seen an FFL so reluctant on sending out their license before.

You could just ask for their FFL number and then verify it with EZ check.  As a nonFFL you don't have to have a copy of their FFL.

Or find out who they are and give them a call.  Some FFLs have been burned with nonFFLs.

It is a little unusual for them to want DL and specifics upfront.  They may just be old farts and don't want to do transfers

While his FFL is being a pain in the ass, they are required to ID the origin of the firearm acquisition, and it sounds like you agreed to provide a copy of your DL to the buyer or his FFL as part of the sale process.

Requiring an ID copy included with an incoming firearm transfer is pretty standard practice or policy of most FFL's who accept transfers from individuals.

As far as his FFL being a pain in the ass, there's no reason for that. The information isn't a secret. Many FFL's post PDF's of their license online for download, because they don't want to be constantly answering calls or emails with requests to send it to so and so.

In fact, a complete listing of all FFL's and the entirety of their license number and premises address is available for download directly from the ATF.

CLICK

I'd refund his money and sell it to someone else. I'm wondering if he's trying to get you to ship it somewhere that's not actually and FFL. He clearly isn't able to follow instructions since he couldn't follow the simple instruction of waiting to pay you until you got this. Then the fact that his story keeps changing. Something sketchy is going on here.

You could also call the FFL directly and discuss this with them directly if you do wish to proceed with the sale.

Are you willing to call the buyer's FFL directly and ask what's up?

You could offer the buyer an FFL to FFL transfer if he pays the additional cost.

I know that's a PITA for you but how much of a PITA is it to refund the buyer, relist the firearm, and wait till someone else buys it?

Yeah that was what struck me as odd. I've only shipped rifles a few times, but this was the first time the FFL was being so difficult. Perhaps they are old and set in their ways.

You do not need a copy of their license. Just get the name of the shop, verify it on EZ-Check, and ship it.

Yeah I understand that and was going to include copy of my DL inside box along with rifle once I verified them, but I guess I can send it to them first. I am looking at your ATF link. Buyer told me name and address of FFL. I found them in the spreadsheet I downloaded off ATF website (0121-ffl-list.xlsx), but don't see their license number in there. Is there somewhere else I look?

Well I just found the FFL on the ATF spreadsheet, so they look to be legit, but yeat it has been one thing and then another. I just need to find the license number. I want to put it in the ez check to confirm.

If I cant figure this out tonight I will try calling them tomorrow. Yeah I offered that, but he didn't want to pay the additional cost of my FFL.

How do I go about doing this? The ezcheck website wants numbers entered. I see a FFL search top right but it doesnt do anything when I click on it.

From the link given above, here is Glock's info:

1 58 067 08 1M 21808 GLOCK INC 6000 HIGHLANDS PKWY SMYRNA GA 30082 0000 6000 HIGHLANDS PKWY SMYRNA GA 30082 0000 7704321202

Their FFL is 1-58-067-08-1M-21808

Punch that required numbers into EZ check

https://fflezcheck.atf.gov/fflezcheck/

and it should return the address shown from the spreadsheet. It does for Glock.

Buyer should be able to give you name/address of shop, even FFL number to make it easy to punch into EZ check

Same... This seems much more complicated than it is

it will stay complicated as long as OP wants a copy of license which he does not need. Lots of FFLs do not give this out unless legally required.

You are mistaken. As a nonlicensee you don't need an actual copy of the receiving dealers FFL, only licensees need a copy.
If you want to verify that the dealer is legit all you need is the first three and last five numbers of his FFL for EzCheck.






No, it isn't.









While I hate getting mystery guns (guns that arrives with missing information on buyer and/or seller) I think its a more than a bit silly to ask for more than a copy of the sellers DL inside the box with name an contact info of the buyer. But more than a few FFL's are terrified that their FFL is going to get Photoshopped (even though there are thousands of FFL images already on the internet and every 01FFL's complete info is on atf.gov



Your buyer chooses his FFL. If you have the $$$$ its the buyers responsibility to find an FFL that will accept shipment from a nonlicensee. If you deem the receiving dealers requirements as too demanding.....its a bit late. If you refuse to send a copy of your DL with the gun your ad should mention that. While including your DL with a gun shipment isn't required by any federal law or ATF regulation, it IS required for the receiving dealer to record the name and address of the person he acquired the gun. Asking for a copy of the sellers DL is pretty much SOP.

Every single carrier in my area.....UPS, USPS, and Fedex, requests an actual copy of the FFL when shipping a firearm of any type.

No FFL copy= no ship .....

Some licensees are reluctant to send copies to non-licensees (that would be the OP) due to potential fraud.  Someone attempted to use our license fraudulently a few years back by changing just the address, but fortunately the potential buyer tracked us down online to call and ask questions about the firearm purportedly for sale (transferrable MP5) before he sent tens of thousands to a scammer.  Yeah that was a fun conversation.

So, as a non-licensee OP has no right to be asking for a license from anyone, nor does he legally need it.  Get the first 3 and last 5, run them through EzCheck, and ship the gun.

What that sucks. Lots of Major MFGs will not give it out to a non-licensee, so for warranty and stuff you have to send it in through a dealer at additional cost.

I've had to eat the cost of paying an FFL to ship/transfer after the buyers FFL wouldn't provide a copy for me a few times......

It's a condition of sale for any firearm I have to ship now....if your FFL won't provide a copy, don't bid, or say "I'll take it"

Print the label online, arrange for pick-up, hand the package to the carrier who will run off with it.  I have never been asked for it.

yup,

and I'm a FFL/SOT,,

dude is a squirrel,   life is too short to mess with squirrels

And guess what.......no carriers tariffs or policies require that. I'm an FFL and in twelve years only one US Post Office has asked for a copy of my FFL. It took twenty minutes and a call to a postal inspector and they never bugged me again.

Paypal? I quit reading right there.

I think I told this story before, but this is how crazy it can get.  I am an FFL and regularly used my local post office to ship guns to FFLs.  One day, when dropping off my box, giving them a 1508, etc.  the clerk tells  me they have to have a copy of my FFL. I asked to speak to the postmaster, and she came out and said it was a new regulation.  I was running out of time, had the customer's money and had to ship this gun, so i went back home and got a copy.  I thought they just wanted to see it, but they wanted to keep it.  Again, I was over a barrel and left it, but i got the numbers for the postal inspector and chief post master.  

After some calls to them, it turns out that it wasn't a new regulation, but Homeland Security had come by and scared them about letting people mail guns to terrorists and to go back to my PO and get my FFL.  I did that and thought it was all over, but a few days later, I got a call from agent smith from Homeland Security wanting to know why i was undoing all the good work they did at the post office.  I pointed him to the postal regs that say all i need is my 1508.  He says, yeah, that's the regs but they think that's too easy for abuse.  We chatted more about my fear of the PO having a copy of my FFL.  I gave him a scenario where they could order guns in my FFL name (send a copy if requested) and intercept the guns on their way to me.  He got quiet for a minute and said that sounded like a real potential problem and thanked me for highlighting that hole in the regulations.  He thanked me and hung up.  I never had a problem at the post office again.  In fact, a couple of the clerks have done transfers through me since then.

I think it is so weird that a couple of drones in the govt can cause so much shit.

I know this is old but good info.  If you dint have a ffl number use https://www.fflscope.com/ to get the number then do a ez check.

That's all good and well....but I have exactly 2 options......

1 - Require a copy of an FFL from the buyer before shipping a firearm
2 - Attempt to walk in the front door and explain to every shipper in my area their own rules regarding shipping of firearms....

One of these options has a positive outcome.....the other does not ....

Yeah....you have two options:
1. Educate the carriers local to you on what their regulations or policies actually require, not having to deal with it again. (or at least not for a long time)
Stand up on your hind legs, pull up your big boy britches, and hand them a copy of their own regulations and tell them to ship according to the tariff or you are calling their supervisor. Then follow through. You'll be surprised how handing a copy of the FedEx tariff or DMM to a "doesn't really know it all" clerk shuts them the fuck up.
2. Continue to be a milk toast for the anti gunners and the ignorant.

By abiding the clerks rules and not the company rules, you make it more difficult on everyone else who tries to ship according to the rules. You allow the clerk to invent and enforce his rules, usually more restrictive than the carriers. That aint cool. No need to be confrontational or argumentative because there really isn't an argument...YOU have the tariff. Treat the clerk as if they were a small child learning to use a vending machine.