There are now more dedicated tall risers on the market for passive NV use.  Very interesting.  ADM has a new tall (NV) micro mount, which is nice, but I went with the new Geissele Super Precision Tall (1.93") mount.  Anybody seen anymore?

The other side of this coin is just how much better it is, IMHO, for overall shooting.  Some call it the new "heads up" position, which is exactly why I like it.  I know there will be guys pissing and moaning about increased height over bore, fucking up zero charts, and other assorted fuckery, but, I really like it.

I though this would be of interest here, in light of some of the threads we've had.

I say the same thing every time it comes up. I love them. Totally.

All of my red dot guns include an ultimak AK have risers.

I’m even going to put on on my 1-6 lpv just for day shooting. To me it’s undesirably better.

With nods it makes looking through the site easy peasy

Yeah, this is a very good technique, and I think it's pretty cool that vendors are starting to recognize that fact and putting more tall mounts on the market.  The ADM looked good, but they're out of stock right now.  The Geissele are in stock at TNVC, and actually a bit less.  My SF bud loves Geissele mounts so I bought one sight unseen.  Can't wait to try it out.   I'm taking back up sights off this rifle so the long Hahn riser is no longer needed.

I have a G 1.93” for my MRO. It’s nice.

ADM extra high for my TA33. It’s also nice.

I've ran a PVS 14, a T1 with a Bobro 1.93 mount, a M2 on a KNS RIS II free float and a 1/3 Larue mount and it was ok. I since decided to run a standard 1/3 instead due to I'd rather tilt my head slightly while under NODs and still have the use of back up irons for day use.

As a long time AK user and optic collector the most common complaint I hear is that Russian optics are too tall and you can't get a good cheek weld

The truth is many Russian day light optics are low but many are higher - designed for a heads up shooting position.

It goes without saying the cold war NV devices of most countries had a higher mount because they were larger and this is true for the old Soviet NV but also because they used a universal mount and had to fit on all kinds of weapons including HMGs

These days, because of combloc type optics, I prefer a higher optic and a more heads up position.  It's not as comfortable prone but for me it's much better in most other positions

NV is the same for me, I prefer the more upright position

Z

That's a very good point.  During the cold war, we just mother-fucked everything the Sov's did, well, just cuz.  Now you can see the wisdom of having higher or heads up mounting positions- and even say hey the com-bloc stuff really ain't that bad, without your "patriotism" being questioned.  Funny how shit like that works out.  I know it's part of the indoctrination pkg, to tell the troops they have the best gear in the world, and the enemy doesn't have shit, etc, etc.  But at some point you just gotta look at the facts.  Or not.

Pretty funny when the taped-on 1st gen Aimpoints went into Son Tay; you know that's a pretty good height for it.  But we all fell over ourselves, shit-canning the carry handle uppers to get the new rails.  Someone decided "X-height" over the bore was the shit.  Now we are going back to as high or higher than a carrying handle upper.

It really comes down to whether you can switch gears and accept a jaw weld rather then having a traditional set position on the stock.  We had to change from iron sights to RDS.  Now we modify the RDS position so it is closer to the NV position.  I think it's a good natural progression.  But I'm sure opinions will vary.

So when looking through a RDS with NV, what’s the practical difference between a 1.93” height riser vs a 1/3 co witness height riser? I suppose it would be an issue that really effects each shooter and gear combo a little differently.

On a slight tangent: has anyone here stopped using their IR laser for aiming purposes and gone to passive aiming with RDS only?

ETA: edited second question for clarity.

Yeah this is a valid criticism.  You either go without BUIS, or use 45 deg off-sets.  No more co-witness for sure.

I don't use iron sights at all any more so cowitness isn't much of a concern in my case.

The 1.93 didn't feel as weird as expected and certainly helps when there are lasers and such out on the rail. The extra height also helps if wearing a mask.

After using the 1.93 Geissele in a couple of classes, I'll likely change to the tall mount on anything of mine that gets used with NV.

The difference between the taller and std mounts.  Not a whole lot, kinda depends on you and how much muscle memory you have in your current position.  It is a different index on your jaw.  I am definitely off my jawbone, or traditional iron sight position, and slightly above my std height position, and maybe just below my laser position.  So if you can "de-couple" from a set postion on your jaw line, and let this "float" as required, you will be OK.  If you depend more on a set contact point, then you might have trouble.  I find by emphasizing the push by the other strong hand into to the shoulder pocket, I let the jaw contact be what it needs to be, so the eye is looking as straight through the tube as possible, rather than insisting on a set point of face contact.  So my left side is rigid and pushing into the shoulder pocket, but the right side is relaxed as possible, to allow for independent trigger finger movement.  My eye seeks out the tube first, and the jaw contacts the stock where it needs to be, rather than having a set index point.  Depending on what mode you are shooting in most frequently, you will then build up muscle memory in that position.  I have seen my buddy illustrating stuff in day light classes, where his default setting was so engrained into shooting under NV, that he naturally lined up there and then adjusted to day optics.  It pissed him off but I thought it was pretty impressive.  Not many people have the reps under NV to do that.

I have only switched up in training exercises.  It's not something that would be easily done on demand; rather like taking a security halt, rigging up for passive engagement, as say part of getting ready for actions on the objective, then carrying on.  Obviously having BNVD's makes this technique seamless, where running MNVD's requires a stop, and adjustment of equipment.  So yeah you could say that this technique is really for BNVD's and have a valid point.

But.

My main take-away has been how much I like shooting from a raised sight position- all the time.  So for me, this trumps not being able to co-witness BUIS.  That's just my preference, obviously there are many others.

Anybody know the height over bore of a standard lower 1/3 mount? How much taller is a 1.93?

I think I want to try this out

With a 1.93 it's still not a absolute line of sight with a PVS 14, it does help a some but it's not leaps and bound better IMHO.

Passive shooting has it's place especially when your lighting environment suddenly changes from dark to light, when your threat may also have NV, or when you use NV to get to where your going and white light when going full tilt boogie.

My 552 is on a 1/2" riser and fits me much better than a cowitness or 1/3 cowitness setup, but I am 6'3". Have a friend who is 5'8" that didn't care for it. I find it easier to shoot night or day. The drawbacks? No more absolute cowitness sights ( which I like) and the NOD needs to be on the dominant eye. Keeping the OTAL I run at 12 o'clock from cluttering my sight picture is a plus though. The riser is a great setup for some uses. Door kicking isn't necessarily one of them, but then I don't kick to many doors currently.

I hate chin welds, I much prefer a cheek weld. It is what it is though.  Chin welds are better for running and gunning, but poorer for set position shooting. God I would have killed for a higher sight when shooting on the range with a gas mask on. Almost nobody can use the sights on an m-16a2 and a m-40 gas mask. It is more like point in general direction of the target and hope for the best.
Since all of my shooting now is at critters, I wish I could get a good cheek weld with my NV scope, but the totes are wising up

Yeah that's a good point about the LAM now being clear of the optic FOV.  It's also clear of the BUIS but hey, you makes your choices and takes your chances.

I think the key is not being tied to a set point on the jaw for shooting.  With some NV experience, this becomes a lot easier, especially if you just use a good solid shoulder pocket mount and not worry too much about the face weld.

It's really hard if you can't switch gears from a traditional boot camp style of BRM.

A tool in the tool box.  Use it if it works for you.  Ignore it if it doesn't.