Hogdon's site says minimum powder 19.5 grains and maximum powder 21.2 grains with this powder / bullet combonation.
Hornady's site says i can use minumum 20.7 grains and maxumum powder 23.1 grains.

My seating depth is the same as an M855 green tip. 2.2480

I've done some testing. first firing a factory American Eagle round to take note of what direction the brass ejects. It ejected at 3:00

Next, I started firing my rounds in order from least to most powder.  20.2gn, 20.8gn, 21.0gn, and 21.5gn.

20.2 grains was underpowered and the BCG wouldnt lock back on the last round.  20.8 it started locking back at the last round. 21.5 had the best group. My groups are still a little better with the American Eagle than my own loads.

The thing though thats telling me that I need to make changes is that the factory round ejected its brass at 3:00, and every powder charge that I tested with my own loads ejected about 4-4:30. Meaning that my loads arent powerful enough / arent creating enough pressure.

My question is... Should I trust the load data from Hogdon's site, or Hornady's? Can I keep going up in powder? Also.. Is there something else that I'm possibly overlooking?

side note: I want to get this bullet / powder combo to work because I'm running an 11.5" barrel and don't want a lot of muzzle flash.  H322 is a fast burning powder. Firing it at dusk, I've noticed that there is very little if any muzzle flash with this powder.

In my experience, I have gone up to the max listed that I have seen in published data, but I usually start at the lowest published data I find. That is one of the reasons I research as many sources for data that I can find.

It seems you found a node at 20.8, but it wasn't the best. Hornady says you can go higher, I would keep going carefully.

Make sure you are using a good rest when shooting, and make sure you are being consistent with your brass prep and loading steps.

Loading manuals are not etched in stone recipe books for a given round of ammo. It is a report of how a given set of components performed in that companies' barrel/gun combo. They are guidebooks intended to put you in the general range for the cartridge you are loading for. I have several manuals from 30-40 years ago when I started loading. In many instances, they have noticeably "hotter" recipes than are published in current manuals.

When I start out loading for a new to me cartridge I look at as many manuals/websites as I can to get a general idea of what loads and performances to expect. I also look closely at the recipes and the barrel lengths they used in the ballistics lab. Additionally, I look to see which recipes are CLOSEST to what I am loading in terms of powder, primer, bullets, and cases. Fewer variations for me has generally resulted in real world performance close to the published data.
ymmv.

In reloading, caution is prudent.

Hornady has service rifle (AR-15 5.56 NATO data) and bolt action (SAAMI .223) data. The chambers are not the same. I suspect Hodgdon is using a SAAMI .223 chamber and a 24" barrel.

Without a chronograph you really are guesstimating. I wouldn't be surprised if you could easily go to 22.5 grains of H322 from a 5.56mm chamber using 62 grain bullets. The problem is not all 62 grain bullets are the same. 23.0 grains is a common load with 55's. 23.5 grains is a common load with 50/53 grain bullets.

I always reference the data published by the bullet manufacturer when loading a new bullet. Military bullets don't come with data. Watch for primer signs. Extruded firing pin holes, bright ejector markings. I would drop a minimum of .5 grain below these pressure signs, maybe a whole grain to be safe.

I dislike FMJ bullets so much I refuse to reload with them. The only FMJ's on the market with a decent reputation is Hornady's. They are both cheap (especially when purchased in bulk) and relatively accurate. All other brands have been a disappointment in my experience.

H-322 is one of my favorite powders for light bullets in .223. Match grade 52/53 grain bullets shoot lights out with it regardless of twist rates.

Thanks for the replies guys.  I appreciate it.

So do you think I should work up until the brass is being ejected in the same or close to the same direction as the factory rounds?

I would like to get a chronograph sometime in the near future.

I would look at the brass and see what it tells you. The ejection pattern is like a sundial, not a rolex.

Ultimately, we're all going off the magic of reading brass for pressure signs, and coincidence with velocity (when appropriate). When all you have is the brass, that narrows your options down. Yes, ejection is part of it, but it doesn't tell the full story.

I don't care what the velocity is, if the brass/primer says stop, you stop.

Get some good pictures of your primers for us.

If your groups are all over the place, there's three basic things that are likely the issue. First, the bullet/barrel just don't like each other. It happens. Second, you're at the wrong seating depth, which sometimes can't be controlled when working with magazine fed guns, so all you can do is be consistent, you should be able to push out a bit and see if that helps. Third, your powder charge is either not consistent, or out of the accuracy window.

I've met some bullets that despite my best efforts of load tuning, just won't group well. Switching to a match die that pushes further down the bullet, not on the tip, has improved my loads quite a bit. You can still make plenty good ammo with generic dies, so don't worry about it, for now. I have some bullets that shoot OK with light and hot charges, but are lasers with mild charges.

Until you get some baseline data to work with, from YOUR gun using YOUR scale, etc... you won't know. Use the book as a guideline. Some books will max out under what others start at. Be ready to pull some bullets.

Thanks for the replies guys.  I'll do that then.  I'll just keep working up and watch for pressure signs.  

I've got some pictures for you guys. I don't know how to make them just come up on the thread.  But I've got links for them


This is my setup


This is the weapon that I'm testing the loads with.
Ballistics advantage 11.5" government barrel. 1:7 twist
toolcraft NIB bolt carrier group
Palmetto upper reciever / Aero lower and Aero lower parts except the safety, the bolt catch and the trigger.
I dunno if the rest of it matters as far as the data for the loads goes.


This is the scale I use.


Here's hogdon's data for the 62 grain bullets.  I was compairing them to 60 and 63 grain


And this is the data I printed off of Hornady's site.  There isn't any data for the combonation that I'm loading in the Lyman book.

I checked my books, and as always, Hornady is very conservative. E.g. in a specific .223 load (not a 62gr), I'm a full grain over their listed max, as well as using a magnum primer too. I could still go up ½gr per my own testing.

Nosler is a bit higher. Sierra is in the same ballpark, but a touch higher for your h322/62gr.

Again, work your loads up, listen to the primers.

Get beam scale and a chrono as soon as you can. Beam scale first. Check the thread about e-scales. If you have the money, just get a labradar setup and be done.

ETA: that hodgdon data is even lower than Hornady's.

Definately good to know.



Hell yeah.  I bought the bench used from a guy that owns a warehouse a few miles from me for like $20.  The thing's heavy as hell. And I built the shelves out of pallet wood.  The only pegboard is the plastic stuff holding my storage bins.

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I'm prepping the cases now to make a few different loads to test tomorrow.  I left off at 21.5 grains.  So I'm gonna load 3 of each.  21.9 22.3 and 22.8.  The max from Hornady is 23.1.  So I'll be pretty close to the max according to that site, and above Hogdon's max by 1.6 grains at the highest grain that I'll be testing out.

Remember there's no shame in pulling them down. There is shame in forcibly disassembling a gun

I went to the range today. Tested all three different weights in grains. The brass is still ejecting in the same spot, however I know that the action must be moving hard because I could feel the difference in recoil. Kinda strange.

Here's a pic of the primers. No pressure signs in any of the casings.



I guess what I should probably do at this point is buy a chronograph and just settle with what ever grains brings me to the velocity I want then, and settle with the brass ejecting at 4:30, right? It is definitely not short cycling above 20.8 grains.

Oh awesome thanks!

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I ordered a chronograph. Itll be here on the 9th. So this next test should be the last one then. I'm gonna go back to probably about 20.5 and work back up to see the velocity on each round. I'll make a few with 55 grain bullets as well. If they do that much better than the 62 grain bullets with this powder, I'll use the 55s with the H322, and... *sigh* buy H335 for the 62 grain bullets.

FWIW I've settled on 25gns of H335 for my 62gn SP.

BTW, sprinco recommends a 4 o’clock ejection pattern so I don’t see a problem with that. After you find your load you can play with buffer combinations to adjust your ejection.

https://sprinco.com/SPRINCO-DOCS/Horizontal%20Case%20Ejection%20Trajectory%20Chart.pdf

I wouldn't worry too much about ejection pattern.  I get all kinds of patterns between different ammo out of my 12", 16", and 18" setups but they always eject, even when dirty or starting to go dry.  Different powders are going to have varying gas volume depending on the burn rate but AR's are not that sensitive.

H322 is a fantastic powder.  You won't get the most velocity out of it but it can be very consistent.

The results are in!

I fired 2 shots of each round out of an 11.5" ballistic advantage govt barrel.

H322 62gr fmj 223

20.8gr
2058
2212

21.3gr
2384
2242

21.7gr
2333
2340

21.3 seems to be the best, but still not 2500fps.

Do you think I should just get h335 for the 62 grains and use the h322 for 55grain bullets, or are these numbers fine for an 11.5" barrel.

I feel like these numbers are a little low even for a short barrel.

I've got some more data now. I tried some loads with 55 grain. Again, two rounds from each powder charge.

H322 55gr fmj 11.5 barrel

21.8gr
2339
2314

22.4
2318
2417

22.8
2424
2443

So I'm gonna load the 55gr bullets 22.8gr in bulk and find another powder for the 62gr. I'm thinking H335. BLC-2 is out the window. My setup didnt like it. But does anyone have any suggestions?